Question about Manu Ginobili

[Drachen]

Hey, I love Manu and I think he's a really good exciting player. Just don't compare him to Kobe yet...You can't really compare stats, since the spurs are more focused inside out with the Lakers outside...well ok outside and Kobe handles the ball as much as any point gaurd. Laker God's a chump.

Im really sorry, but this is just a re ed excuse. Kobe is currently the lakers, like it or not, thank buss for this. Manu is not the spurs yet he is top 5 per 49 mins player in the league. Nothing against Kobe, the hall of famer (seriously, no sarcasm intended, I swear) but the topic of this thread is that MG is an ALL-STAR candidate, which he is. With an efficientcy rating of less than 1% less than kobe, everyone must agree that he is a candidate.

[Rummpd]

Kobe is great/fabulous top 4-6 NBA player (probably 4, but he is simply not as important to a team as Duncan, Shaq, Garnett) but that will never replace my perception that this unlikeable guy, who could have had it all, seems to have beaten the system both in regards to getting what he wanted with his team with his smugness, and in the more serious realm of life. Laker fans can have him and embrace him all they want, I for one am very satified having Duncan, Manu and Parker (all class acts) vs. Kobe, Odom (head cases x 2) and their multiple smurfs.
MadDoc

[tekdragon]

AHF hit it right on the head. Manu isn't (individually), and never will be, as good a player as Kobe.

However, Manu can be a more valuable component to a championship team.

[Medvedenko]

"However, Manu can be a more valuable component to a championship team."
Yeah, because Kobe wasn't a valuable component in the 3 rings he won....man the ignorance is running rampant on this site. I love Manu's game, how many times do I have to say it...but saying he's a better teammate is re ed. What does that really mean anyway....Derek Fisher is a great team player as is Robert Horry....are they all better than kobe. The point is winning and carrying your team when the chips are down. Kobe has proved that in the past and I guess that is lost on all of you.

[tekdragon]

No, the Lakers won because they had the best two players on the planet, and there was no way to stop them both. Kobe, however, has never made his teammates better. It was a matter of one of them beating you, or the other beating you.

Manu has the potential to become a Magic Johnson-type player, who makes everyone on the floor look better because he is a superior teammate.

Kobe has no such potential, or at least has shown none. He might be the best player on the planet, I'll give you that. There's definitely a case to be made.

Manu is the superior teammate, though. No one is saying he's a better athlete or scorer.

Think about it: who's the better teammate? Jason Kidd, or Kobe? Obviously the answer is Kidd. Manu can be that type of player. Kobe is one of the greatest scorers of all time.

We're just trying to compare apples to apples:

Scorer/athlete:
Kobe>Manu

Teammate/floor general:
Kobe<Manu

You may now untie your panties.

[Rummpd]

Bryant will never be the "best player" on the planet as long as Garnett, Duncan, Shaq and probably now James play. Best players = make others better and I don't believe Bryant will ever take a team to the finals without Shaq (as even AI has done).

MadDoc

[genghisrex]

I've been bringing excellent topics on the state of the Lakers and spurs but always get censored by the owners of this site.

Wow, Kori and timvp must really be censoring and deleting your good threads because all I've ever seen you post is crap.

[tekdragon]

Rummpd:

Personally, I agree.

I admit that there is a case to be made, however. I wouldn't make the case, but I can't blame someone who does. He is an incredibly gifted player who works his ass off on his game.

In my opinion, though:

Best players = make others better

this statement prevents him from being the best in my book.

[Medvedenko]

Of course, Kobe's not a team player....what are you guys thinking...I guess I can argue that Chris Mihm's increase in scoring has nothing to do with Kobe, or all other teammates preforming well given Kobe's lack of passing. Oh, if you do recall in their championship days it was Kobe who led the team in assists. Winning fricken games and rings is the acid test. Comparing Manu and Magic is even more ludicrous.

[Useruser666]

Of course, Kobe's not a team player....what are you guys thinking...I guess I can argue that Chris Mihm's increase in scoring has nothing to do with Kobe, or all other teammates preforming well given Kobe's lack of passing. Oh, if you do recall in their championship days it was Kobe who led the team in assists. Winning fricken games and rings is the acid test. Comparing Manu and Magic is even more ludicrous.

Mihm is scoring more because he is actually playing.

[Medvedenko]

This thread is re ed...I'm done. You guys are stubborn and I'm stubborn, so it's moot. I guess we'll see at the end of their respected careers who will go down in infamy. I just love the posts, I would rather have Manu as a teammate than Kobe. You team-up Kobe and Duncan, the league would fold.

[bigzak25]

I understand y'all are Spurs fans. But Manu isn't at Kobe's level.

as a shooter only IMO. and that is the difference.

manu was shooting lights out early, his 3's didn't look smooth, but they were dropping....that has come and gone....he finds that stroke again, and he will be allstar bound.

[Medvedenko]

Why....did you watch the last Laker game...Kobe destroyed the Bucks and shut down Redd at the same time. Please let's not do this anymore....it's starting to hurt my head.

[Useruser666]

This thread is re ed...I'm done. You guys are stubborn and I'm stubborn, so it's moot. I guess we'll see at the end of their respected careers who will go down in infamy. I just love the posts, I would rather have Manu as a teammate than Kobe. You team-up Kobe and Duncan, the league would fold.

Maybe you don't understand the point some people were making. Manu truly wants to get his team involved. He wants to win more than achieve personal glory. How is Kobe a good teammate when he doesn't lift a finger to keep his coach or a great player on his team? He wants to be lifted on the shoulders of others, rather than lift up those around him. He is a spotlight .

EDIT: Kobe wouldn't want to play with Duncan. He wants everything to himself.

[Medvedenko]

User6666, I guess Kobe owns Shaq and Phil, two bigger ego maniacs than Kobe ever will be. Secondly, he does get his teammates involved a little too much...Kobe fed Shaw more than any player during their run, and made Shaq "better" for it. Just like Shaq made Kobe better....it works both ways.

[violentkitten]

ginobili is at the top of his game its all downhill from here. kobe over manu every day and twice on sundays you guys are some dumb homer es

[Medvedenko]

http://www.82games.com/rolandratings0405.htm
It just shows you that if the Lakers didn't have Kobe, they would really struggle....MVP like numbers...dependancy.... I don't know, just more damn stats to peruse.

[Useruser666]

User6666, I guess Kobe owns Shaq and Phil, two bigger ego maniacs than Kobe ever will be. Secondly, he does get his teammates involved a little too much...Kobe fed Shaw more than any player during their run, and made Shaq "better" for it. Just like Shaq made Kobe better....it works both ways.

Ask yourself this, what would have happened if Kobe asked the club to keep Jackson and resign O'neal? Do like the current team better? I'm not putting them down, just asking a simple question.

Kitty, I would watch out if I were a pussy on Kobe's team.

[Medvedenko]

Look, I would have loved the Lakers to resign Shaq and keep Phil. I say Lakers, not Kobe because Buss is making the damn decision. Now, only if Shaq were to sign for a lot less then he demanded, since after Kobe and Shaq we couldn't sign anyone worth while. Kobe and Shaq had it good, however they didn't win in the last 2 years, so change is in order, plus financial responsibility.
I like the triangle offence than all the iso I'm seeing lately. Conversley, the Lakers are more fun to watch this year. I got spoiled in the last 5 years, knowing that when the Lakers lost it was because they didn't show up, not that they actually got beat. This year is more challenging for the fans, and by the end of the year the true fans will be left. We can't win them all, but I would like 1 more year with Zen, Kobe, Snaq, Malone....

[Useruser666]

Look, I would have loved the Lakers to resign Shaq and keep Phil. I say Lakers, not Kobe because Buss is making the damn decision. Now, only if Shaq were to sign for a lot less then he demanded, since after Kobe and Shaq we couldn't sign anyone worth while. Kobe and Shaq had it good, however they didn't win in the last 2 years, so change is in order, plus financial responsibility.
I like the triangle offence than all the iso I'm seeing lately. Conversley, the Lakers are more fun to watch this year. I got spoiled in the last 5 years, knowing that when the Lakers lost it was because they didn't show up, not that they actually got beat. This year is more challenging for the fans, and by the end of the year the true fans will be left. We can't win them all, but I would like 1 more year with Zen, Kobe, Snaq, Malone....

So you don't believe Kobe had ANYTHING to dowith those two leaving? You don't think kobe had any pull on those decisions?

[ALVAREZ6]

So you don't believe Kobe had ANYTHING to dowith those two leaving? You don't think kobe had any pull on those decisions?

I do.

[Medvedenko]

Indirectly....maybe, I don't think he had a say..remember Jerry Buss has been around a lot longer than Kobe. However, I didn't see Kobe really campaign for both of them to stay. He stayed "quiet" but you never know what happened. The team was in shambles before any of this happened, and they got to the finals on pure talent alone.

[Useruser666]

Indirectly....maybe, I don't think he had a say..remember Jerry Buss has been around a lot longer than Kobe. However, I didn't see Kobe really campaign for both of them to stay. He stayed "quiet" but you never know what happened. The team was in shambles before any of this happened, and they got to the finals on pure talent alone.

Everything you say is true. But I honestly believe that Kobe could have done something to stop the break up. If he was the one traded it wouldn't make sense, but he was the last piece standing.

[Medvedenko]

I bet Shaq, Phil and Kobe had a play in this development. They all needed to be on the same page...Shaq taking a lesser role, Phil deferring his O to Kobe, and Kobe sucking up some ego play along side another great player...

[Dex]

I never thought I'd see the day when I'd be quoting LakerGod, and yet...here we are.