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That spider tx guy was a dumbass, best to let him go anyways (maybe if i didn't put this parenthetical comment, this post would make him come storming back to argue with me, haha)
I never said him being boring was holding him back, it was a different argument altogether. Sorry if they sounded like the same agument, but I will clear it up now. Just made the seperate point about him being boring to watch, that's all.
That spider tx guy was a dumbass, best to let him go anyways (maybe if i didn't put this parenthetical comment, this post would make him come storming back to argue with me, haha)
I never surrendered, but arguing with a homer as big as you are is like talking to a brick wall. I can have every valid point in the world, but you will never come down from anything regarding your Spurs boys.
Okay I re-read the posts. You're en led to your opinion that he's boring. The argument in this thread that you had w/ that other dude is like arguing about what the best ice cream flavor is. I don't know why you guys bothered. My bad for calling you a dumbass...you guys just wasted a lot of finger strength and some emotion.
I agree, but that's really what message boards are all about.
I guess...
What the are you talking about? We're on national TV all the time. That was a Jazz in the other thread complaining about a lack of TV time. Very few teams (maybe just the Lakers) have had as many games on TNT/ESPN/ABC as the Spurs have over the past 5 years.
But factor in over the past 2 per se, the Spurs have lost some of those games to the Suns, Mavs, Heat, Bulls, Cavs.
What does Duncan's entertainment value (or lack thereof to the "casual" fans) have to do with his place among the greatest power forwards to have played?
You have not made any valid points so far. I already said to you Tim was a better rebounder and defender than Bird, few who watched Bird would have called him a defensive stopper. Plus they both have 3 les, so your turn start making your case for Bird.
Yes, he only has about 4 or 5 different moves. But guess what? Very few guys have more than that. Nash is all over the place, I'll grant you that. But Dirk's moves are pretty standard. Amare is quick and athletic, but most of his shots can be put into 3 or 4 different categories at the end of the night. KG/Shaq/Melo have the same few moves that they break out again and again.
Nash basically runs under the basket more times then not and looks to create. He was driving me ing nuts in that series, always dribbling the ball under the hoop over and over.
Never made that argument. I already had to clear this up once. They were seperate points, it has no factor in his place amongst the greats.
Those teams were viewed as le contenders as well, so of course they are going to be on TV a lot also.
But I think you'd be surprised. Some of those teams may have gotten more national TV games, but it wasn't by much. The Spurs are still right there as one of the most televised teams in the game, despite being in such a small market.
I haven't read all of your posts on this thread. But saying that Duncan = less TV games is complete crap.
All I know is...the Spurs play beautiful basketball. I am left in awe sometimes at how smoothly their offense flows and when the system of the offense itself results in a final pass that leads to a wide open jumper or an easy lay-up, I just say, "Wow." (And if I'm watching it in public or with other people, everyone just looks at me kinda weird, esp. when the commentators say NOTHING about it, except "And Horry scores from the baseline" or "Oberto is so crafty.")
EDIT: And of course, it goes without saying that the offense also depends upon Tim to just flat-out dominate with his "boring" moves. His "boring" offensive array of post footwork, pump fakes, crazy hook shots, jumpers, perfect, PERFECT sealing of his man for easy pass and dunks...is what the offense is built around. The attention he demands...regardless of whether the other team doubles (what the Suns had to eventually do) or not (what Pistons try to stick to with Rasheed), he still demands a tremendous amount of attention, which frees up the offense.
And their defense is amazing as well. So many times throughout the Suns' series, I would watch as Nash (or Barbosa or Marion or whoever...but mostly Nash) would manage to get past their man and go towards the paint. Spurs would immediately have a man rotate, and the whole unit on the floor would shift, almost automatically, like clock-work, to compensate for that rotation, leaving Nash with no holes (or at least no easy holes) to work with--when with almost any other team in the league, he would have multiple passing lanes or options to work with (that is the reason for him looking like he was scrambling on offense and repeatedly having to probe the defense and go under the basket just LOOKING desperately for a hole to exploit). That was also the great part of the series...watching Nash work with the little that was given to him and try to make something out of it. That is why I have a lot more respect for Nash now.
And all this about the Spurs is strongly anchored by Duncan. He's the motor, the cpu chip, the whatever thing that is integral to anything analogy, that makes it all work---offense, defense, whatever. Everything hinges on him and it's not some automatic, robotic thing that occurs just because he's a big guy and is just in the game. He is aware of everything that's going on and the little things he does on the court makes the whole thing work. If he makes one false move, if he dribbles one or two more steps towards the baseline or paint, he could mess up the spacing. If he doesn't get deep enough into the paint, the man that doubles onto him would be able to recover quickly enough to the shooter. If he isn't aware of WHERE the doubles come from at all times (cuz they throw doubles from random, different guys just in one possession) and doesn't make the correct pass to swing the ball, that offensive possession is over. If he doesn't sag off his man enough, or comes too early or too quickly with the help, it could throw the whole defensive scheme out the window for that possession.
The Spurs (and Tim Duncan) are a joy to watch...I don't know how to illustrate this point clearly enough.
Last edited by mikekim; 05-20-2007 at 02:47 AM.
Exactly. There is so much more to basketball than a pretty behind the back pass or a dunk.
on another note, i asked this a while back...
Does anyone know what the differences are between a Swingman jersey and a real, authentic jersey (other than the 100 dollar price difference)?? I recently got a Duncan swingman one...I can't bring myself to pay freakin 170 bucks (more w/ shipping and tax) for a jersey no matter how much i like the player.
Everything is sewn in to an authentic. The team name and/or logo, numbers, letters, stripes, etc. It's also thicker and much much more durable.
I once had a David Robinson replica jersey that lasted 2 years. I remember paying about 50 bucks for it. I currently have a Tim Duncan authentic jersey that I've owned since Duncan's rookie year. It still looks brand new and I wear it at least once a month, more often come playoff time. I paid about $150 for it brand new in 1998. It was easily worth the money I spent.
If you want a jersey that will last, spend the extra bucks and get an authentic. I own a Duncan jersey, a Cubs jersey I bought from Wrigley in '92 and a Raiders Tim Brown jersey I bought the year they went to the Super Bowl (and got punked by the Bucs. All authentics. All are in tip top condition. All it takes is a little care and Woolite. Swingman jerseys wear out unless you never wear and/or wash them. And what's the point of that?
Fork over the extra cash. You won't be disappointed.
As much as I love Tim Duncan (he is by far my favorite active player and one of my five favorite players of all time), I have to be objective. Got to give the nod to Karl Malone. His statistics are eye-popping, and his consistency was unmatched. No, he doesn't have a championship, but two NBA Finals appearances against the invinsible Jordan Bulls is just as good as two championships, in my book.
Actualy, they wear out even if you don't. My wife's Ginobili jersey had the B just come off while it was hanging in the closet. I had to get some adhesive at a craft store and iron it back on. Yelling "GINO ILI" sounds re ed.
A real basketball fan would call it exciting. He dominates with such precision.
If you don't like his game, then you don't like good basketball. Go back to the video games or watch AndOne on TV.
What he means is Duncan doesn't cry to the media about people being dirty or do pushups on the floor after he dunks.
I have to tell you that Amare's jumpers in game 6 were scintillating.
Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird. I've seen them both. Both are great scorers. Tim is better inside, Bird is more of an outside shooter. Tim is a much better defender and better rebounder. Bird is a better passer. Both are winners. Stats are very similar. Both are Hall of Fame players.
It is not stupid to compare Tim to Larry. I would bet Larry Bird would agree completely.
I don't understand the Bird comparions. Bird was primarily a small forward. Comparing Bird to Duncan is like comparing Duncan to Wilt.
Bird had to beat Magic and Kareem, 2 of the 5 best players EVER.
Duncan has had to beat a very weak Houston/Sprewell team, crappy Nets team, and a solid Pistons team in 05.
Bird was far, far, far better than Duncan. I agree about the homerism comment. Bird was right up there with MJ.
His bball IQ is unparalleled. He was Robert Horry * 5 in the clutch where Duncan hits clutch FT's with the consistency of Karl Malone. He was like Steve Nash, Stockton, Magic, or other great PG's with his ability to truly make others around him better.
If Bird was in today's NBA? Bar none, he'd be the best player in it.
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