Has everyone's idea of the offseason changed?

[ChumpDumper]

I'll wait for the draft camp to see how tall these SFs really are. We don't need to around with anyone much under 6'9" unless they have the wingspan or blocking ability to make up for it like McGuire seems to have.

[CaptainLate]

I think it's still important for this team to start incorporating some youth into its rotation. Likewise, the 800 pound gorilla in the room is that the Spurs never did have to deal with Nowitzki in these playoffs. If the Spurs are to repeat a long playoff run in 2007-08, they need youth, they need some additional length on the wings, and they need to find guys who can consistently rebound the basketball.

With the Blazers and Sonics improving, we definitely need youth...and someone who can stay with Stoudemire. And, we know he can jump, but let's find out if James White is the second coming of BBowen, but a SF who can score, too. Butler and Ely and two others we need to find out if they are Spurs material or not. If not, then package them up.

[Mr. Body]

The way this draft looks to be shaping up, we should pick up a point guard with our first rounder (unless McGuire falls to us), a big man with #33 and best available talent at #58.

Or just trade them all for nothing.

Agree with all, but feel someone will slip to #33. Just running mock drafts, it seems Almond, Byars, or somebody inevitably falls thru. If someone is right above that Koponen has a guarantee he may stick. He's an intriguing prospect, then there's Pruitt, then there's IMO a fall off before you hit Aaron Brooks, Dominic James, Bobby Brown and the rest.

[whottt]

I'd be fine with that. Your talk about the logjam at our swing spots reminds me that a tall SF would really have to be, well, better than one of Bowen/Finley/Manu to get appreciable minutes next year. Given the learning curve for the average new Spur, it might be difficult to expect a Hedo-type stepping right in next season if those three are still here, even moreso if Barry is here too.

Any of the ones Chicago has(and most of the ones the Warriors have) would get PT on this team. Kryhapa has Pop guy written all over him. He's just got the most talented battery of SF in the NBA in front of him...

[ChumpDumper]

I like the idea of stashing the Finnish kid at 28, but I don't think anyone is realistically going to compete for backup point at #33. Might as well give Beno another shot in that case.

[ChumpDumper]

Any of the ones Chicago has(and most of the ones the Warriors have) would get PT on this team. Kryhapa has Pop guy written all over him. He's just got the most talented battery of SF in the NBA in front of him...

I just wasn't overly impressed with him when he had more PT in Portland, but if he doesn't cost us much, it couldn't hurt.

[picnroll]

I'm not sold on the PG in the draft idea...

PG is the hardest position to learn, takes the longest to learn, and what happened with Beno will most likely happen again...

You can get pissed off at a young player for losing confidence...but that isn't going to make them confident...neither is benching them.

I prefer vet back up PG and use this deep draft to try and get the SF(SF are usually the best all around athletes and that is the key to the position)...to me that's a need more easily filled in the draft. And it's also an easier position for a young player to master. PG is the toughest.

First round PGs taken after 20th pick

2006
Mardy Collins
Jordan Farmar
Sergio Rodriquez
Marcus Williams

2005
Jarrett Jack
Nate Robinson

2004
Delonte West
Jameer Nelson
Sasha Vujacic
Beno Udrih

I think it's pretty safe to say that this is undoubtedly the best yield of players for a position when drafting after 20 and most were contributing payers year one. Only the Lakers and Spurs managed to screw it up. Swings and bigs are far more treacherous. Spurs need a PG, safest best is to go for the best available in the draft.

[timvp]

I'm not sold on the PG in the draft idea...

PG is the hardest position to learn, takes the longest to learn, and what happened with Beno will most likely happen again...

You can get pissed off at a young player for losing confidence...but that isn't going to make them confident...neither is benching them.

I prefer vet back up PG and use this deep draft to try and get the SF(SF are usually the best all around athletes and that is the key to the position)...to me that's a need more easily filled in the draft. And it's also an easier position for a young player to master. PG is the toughest.

I mean I've seen a lot of SF we could have drafted or signed undrafted...I haven't seen many PG's we missed on.

And I do think if the Spurs weren't a le contender Beno would be better developed...Pop can't waste the minutes...

Parker got into the lineup because we literally had no alternative true PG, and because he was extremely talented. We probably aren't going to get another Parker...and if we do, he won't get the time and minutes to develop like Parker...

And you know, it's taken Tony a long time and he's still not quite got it mastered yet. How can we excpect some rookie to contribute?

I would agree with that, but this is the Spurs. Look at the domestic swingmen they've drafted over the years. Sato, Carrawell and Bracey ... none of them even lasted the whole year.

The Spurs almost traded for players like Jameer Nelson and Speedy Claxton in the draft, so we know they can usually pin point a pretty good point guard. When is the last time they even thought about drafting a domestic wing that turned out to be anything? Remember, they were crushed when Ndudi Ebi was taken before they got a hold of him

[Mr. Body]

pic, I wouldn't say the Lakers and Spurs screwed it up. Farmar is a rookie, after all, and could turn out. Beno is still a good player that has only busted with us - he could pan out somewhere else.

Whoops... you meant Vujacic in LAL. Yeah, those Slovenians...

[Mr. Body]

I would agree with that, but this is the Spurs. Look at the domestic swingmen they've drafted over the years. Sato, Carrawell and Bracey ... none of them even lasted the whole year.

The Spurs almost traded for players like Jameer Nelson and Speedy Claxton in the draft, so we know they can usually pin point a pretty good point guard. When is the last time they even thought about drafting a domestic wing that turned out to be anything? Remember, they were crushed when Ndudi Ebi was taken before they got a hold of him

Some good points. Weren't they also after Jarrett Jack?

[timvp]

First round PGs taken after 20th pick

2006
Mardy Collins
Jordan Farmar
Sergio Rodriquez
Marcus Williams

2005
Jarrett Jack
Nate Robinson

2004
Delonte West
Jameer Nelson
Sasha Vujacic
Beno Udrih

I think it's pretty safe to say that this is undoubtedly the best yield of players for a position when drafting after 20 and most were contributing payers year one. Only the Lakers and Spurs managed to screw it up. Swings and bigs are far more treacherous. Spurs need a PG, safest best is to go for the best available in the draft.

Yep. You can find a backup quality point guard at around 28 and 33. Or at least a player who can push Jacque Vaughn next year.

I've seen nothing out of the Spurs that tells me they can draft an American small forward. I'm not sure they have the confidence in doing so with a first round pick. Finding a scrub to slightly above scrub point guard isn't as difficult.

[timvp]

Some good points. Weren't they also after Jarrett Jack?

Yeah, I knew I was forgetting somebody. Good memory.

[picnroll]

Spurs drafted Manu, maybe the only good swingman they've drafted since they had the three pick and got Elliott. And even then they wanted Ferry.

[whottt]

I would agree with that, but this is the Spurs. Look at the domestic swingmen they've drafted over the years. Sato, Carrawell and Bracey ... none of them even lasted the whole year.

The Spurs almost traded for players like Jameer Nelson and Speedy Claxton in the draft, so we know they can usually pin point a pretty good point guard. When is the last time they even thought about drafting a domestic wing that turned out to be anything? Remember, they were crushed when Ndudi Ebi was taken before they got a hold of him

I think they've been inclined to take some true SF's, none of which those guys you mentioned are...they just haven't done it. They did want Howard right?


To me this is the era of the SF...every team in the NBA seems to have mutiple good ones, except us...if you can do it by trade or FA...more power to you, at the same time, I think a SF from this era has a better chance of being a good pick than a PG...

Have there been more SF's or PG's slip through the cracks in recent years?

I think SF has the lead there.

If they are going Euro they probably should take a PG...since there seems to be more successful European PG's than SF's...

[ChumpDumper]

Why do I get the sinking feeling we're going to sign Smush Parker this summer?

[ploto]

As to Oberto-- how well would he have to play in these playoffs for him to decide to bypass that player option of $2.5M and look for a better multi-year deal elsewhere? Someone in this thread claimed Elson was a bargain at $3M.

[timvp]

Spurs drafted Manu, maybe the only good swingman they've drafted since they had the three pick and got Elliott. And even then they wanted Ferry.

Well, international players are different. I think they can draft international players no matter the position. However, the rest of the league has caught up to them in international scouting, so the days of them pulling an unknown foreigner out of their hat is probably over.

The best hope is to get one of those four year point guards who nobody else wants to draft because of "limited upside" and get a player who can push Vaughn for playing time next year. Maybe the Spurs will shock me and go with a swingman, but I won't hold my breath.

[picnroll]

I think they've been inclined to take some true SF's, none of which those guys you mentioned are...they just haven't done it. They did want Howard right?


To me this is the era of the SF...every team in the NBA seems to have mutiple good ones, except us...if you can do it by trade or FA...more power to you, at the same time, I think a SF from this era has a better chance of being a good pick than a PG...

Have there been more SF's or PG's slip through the cracks in recent years?

I think SF has the lead there.

If they are going Euro they probably should take a PG...since there seems to be more successful European PG's than SF's...

Actually sparse pickings on SF after 20. They go earlier and many bust.

2006
Balkman
Boone

2005
Kleiza (SF/PF)

2004
Khryapa


btw I missed Rhondo last year as a post 20 PG.
2003
Outlaw (years in developing)
Delfino (years in getting on the floor)
Ebi

[ChumpDumper]

As to Oberto-- how well would he have to play in these playoffs for him to decide to bypass that player option of $2.5M and look for a better multi-year deal elsewhere? Someone in this thread claimed Elson was a bargain at $3M.

Fair question, but I don't think his scoring surge against Utah has taken on a full Croshere quality just yet. If he performs like this against Detroit (provided the Spurs make it to the finals), Oberto might have cause to opt out.

[picnroll]

As to Oberto-- how well would he have to play in these playoffs for him to decide to bypass that player option of $2.5M and look for a better multi-year deal elsewhere? Someone in this thread claimed Elson was a bargain at $3M.

Toronto's over the cap they can't get Obeto even if they want him.

[whottt]

You left out Travor Ariza...Matt Barnes.

Not all of those PG's were available to us...howmany of those SF were?

counting from 20 on doesn't help us much...we haven't picked better than like 27th in 7 or 8 years.


I don't consider Delfino a true SF anyway...

I am not sure Balkman is going to suck, I don't know for sure that Mardy Collins is a better PG than he is a SF...I'd take him on this team. ---edit NM, I see the point you were making with them.

[Big P]

If the Spurs cant get Nocioni or Pietrus, I would like to see them go after Khrypa from the Bulls(IMO very possible a deal could get done) or if we really wanted to take a chance on a lanky SF type, I say try to sign Koroloev for the LLE. The Clipps didn't pick up his rookie contract & he will be an unrestricted FA this summer. He was the 12th pick a couple of drafts ago & I think he has alot of talent & potential. He is just begging to get on a team like the Spurs where the coaches could work with him. IMO its a little risk, high reward type deal. He's 6'9, 203 lbs so he fills the tall-long SF we've been talking about. Hoopshype says he is "a good athelete with great skills for his age & he's a verstile player." Sounds like the perfect fit.

[picnroll]

Well, international players are different. I think they can draft international players no matter the position. However, the rest of the league has caught up to them in international scouting, so the days of them pulling an unknown foreigner out of their hat is probably over.

The best hope is to get one of those four year point guards who nobody else wants to draft because of "limited upside" and get a player who can push Vaughn for playing time next year. Maybe the Spurs will shock me and go with a swingman, but I won't hold my breath.

Not making a point they showed incredible perception. Like Pop said if they were that smart they would have picked Manu at 40 instead of Giracek. Sanikidze may be proof they've lost or didn't have that eye to egin with.

[timvp]

I think they've been inclined to take some true SF's, none of which those guys you mentioned are...they just haven't done it. They did want Howard right?

Not enough to draft them. After last draft, Buford said that Shannon Brown and Maurice Ager were the two sleepers of the late late first round area. That didn't exactly give me more hope.

I can't even remember a small forward the Spurs even reportedly tried to move up to get that ever lasted more than a season in the NBA.

[picnroll]

You left out Travor Ariza...Matt Barnes.

Not all of those PG's were available to us...howmany of those SF were?

counting from 20 on doesn't help us much...we haven't picked better than like 27th in 7 or 8 years.


I don't consider Delfino a true SF anyway...

I am not sure Balkman is going to suck, I don't know for sure that Mardy Collins is a better PG than he is a SF...I'd take him on this team. ---edit NM, I see the point you were making with them.

2nd rounders.

Some of those are 27+. We can easily trade up a little in all likelihood by packaging 28 + 33 if not Scola, if need be.

Balkman looks good. Just look at the toatl number of good SFs out of the last 4 drafts compared to PG in the last three not to mention rate of success.