The Flop of All Flops

**LEONARD** · 05-30-2007

Wade falling down after a jumper in the finals last year was the best flop ever...he wasn't even touched but he just collapsed his legs when he came down and fell out of bounds...he got the call of course

**Jelly** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by Quasar

Hahha.. this beats soccer in so many ways I don't know what to say. At least, the soccer players have the advantage of having a lot of momentum when they trip - even if they fall down by themselves, they have a good chance of getting hurt.

These basketball players are manufacturing calls out of nothing!!

Raja's flop in one of the last games we played was the best though... Forgot which game, but you could see all the premeditation and intent to flop in that one

unfortunately, most of this flopping is the influence of so many international players in the league now. Now Americans have picked it up and they are as bad as the Euros. 10 years ago, your average NBA player was man enough to get his ass off the floor and not engage in all this fakery. International players have enriched the game, but bringing in all this flopping has been nothing but detrimental to the game of basketball.

But in comparing it to soccer, I do think it would be of a lot more painful and far more likely to lead to injury to slam into a massive, muscular NBA player than a soccer player.

**MaNuMaNiAc** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by Jelly

unfortunately, most of this flopping is the influence of so many international players in the league now. Now Americans have picked it up and they are as bad as the Euros. 10 years ago, your average NBA player was man enough to get his ass off the floor and not engage in all this fakery. International players have enriched the game, but bringing in all this flopping has been nothing but detrimental to the game of basketball.

yes, international players imported flopping...

But in comparing it to soccer, I do think it would be of a lot more painful and far more likely to lead to injury to slam into a massive, muscular NBA player than a soccer player.

sorry Jelly, but you would be wrong. Soccer fouls can be 10 times more dangerous than basketball fouls. Guys may not be as big, but consider the speed at which they occur. I mean just go into youtube and check out the fouls, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

**Nathan Explosion** · 05-30-2007

First off, Lambeer and Rodman were notorious floppers, long before the influx of all these foreign players.

Second, those soccer flops were amazing. The one where the guy dives without being touched and then grabs his leg in the process was hilarious. Then I saw the 3rd clip where the guy is running behind his guy and just drops to the floor.

**ancestron** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by mVp

It is really tough to choose a winner

yeah i remember that flop. there was no foul called either. rightfully so. maybe im wrong but it seemed like manu started the whole flop business in the nba couple years back, but the difference is he's good at it and has made it an effective part of his game. its funny watching other teams try to copy it unsuccessfully.

**spurastic** · 05-30-2007

Anyone have that video of Raja Bell (game 4 in Spurs/Suns series this year) thowing himself into Finley and then frailing/falling backward flop which was called a foul on Finley. That was an entertaining flop!

**Jelly** · 05-30-2007

The only way to prove this either way is to compare the ratio of actual injuries and the seriousness of the injuries. And it can't be in total numbers since the world has a lot more soccer and soccer players obviously.

So, how do you quantify soccer being "10 times more dangerous"? Where's the calculation? Anything I watch on Youtube will just be perception. Just like Nash wasn't nearly as hurt as it looked on television. If he was, he wouldn't have leaped up five seconds later charging at Horry. BTW, I knew this post would push your buttons and bring you out of the wood work, Manumaniac

I love Manu, but he DID get a lot of this flopping trend rolling in 2005. Still, we wouldn't have won without him. I just wish he wouldn't do it.

Also, did you hear the NBA just declared Hakeem Olajuwan the "Bestest, most popular, most important international player EVER to play in the the NBA"

**Jelly** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion

First off, Lambeer and Rodman were notorious floppers, long before the influx of all these foreign players.

Second, those soccer flops were amazing. The one where the guy dives without being touched and then grabs his leg in the process was hilarious. Then I saw the 3rd clip where the guy is running behind his guy and just drops to the floor.

Lambeer I never followed much, but I'll take your word for it. Rodman, I think, should be disqualified from consideration as a flopper, B-ball player, and member of the human species, so he doesn't count.

I know flopping has happened in the NBA before the Euro/South American influx, but to this degree???? I don't think so.

**Jelly** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by LEONARD

Wade falling down after a jumper in the finals last year was the best flop ever...he wasn't even touched but he just collapsed his legs when he came down and fell out of bounds...he got the call of course

AND he got a really cool commercial out of it. Smart flopping. Effective self-promotion. I give that flop a 10.

**MaNuMaNiAc** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by Jelly

The only way to prove this either way is to compare the ratio of actual injuries and the seriousness of the injuries. And it can't be in total numbers since the world has a lot more soccer and soccer players obviously.

So, how do you quantify soccer being "10 times more dangerous"? Where's the calculation? Anything I watch on Youtube will just be perception. Just like Nash wasn't nearly as hurt as it looked on television. If he was, he wouldn't have leaped up five seconds later charging at Horry. BTW, I knew this post would push your buttons and bring you out of the wood work, Manumaniac

I love Manu, but he DID get a lot of this flopping trend rolling in 2005. Still, we wouldn't have won without him. I just wish he wouldn't do it.

jelly its not even a legitimate question. Soccer fouls are by far more dangerous than basketball fouls. Running into a guy in the NBA, even one as big as Shaq is not even close to being tackled at the speed players run in soccer. Also, I can't bring you the exact numbers, but its preety darn obvious professional soccer players get injured far more than basketball players, and their injuries are for the most part, far more severe. NBA injuries are what? ankle tweeking from bad falls, plantar fascitis, twisted wrists, perhaps a broken ankle here or there. I'm not saying severe injuries NEVER happen in basketball, but they are far more prevalent in soccer, no matter what woodwork you think I came out of

As for the Manu starting the flopping trend, all I can say is you have got to be kidding me! Divac flopped like a fish out of water WAAAAY before Manu was even in the NBA's scope, and like the man above said, Lambeer and Rodman were floppers without the need of international players to teach them.

Also, did you hear the NBA just declared Hakeem Olajuwan the "Bestest, most popular, most important international player EVER to play in the the NBA"

Yes, I can admit I was wrong... can you?

**MaNuMaNiAc** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by Jelly

Lambeer I never followed much, but I'll take your word for it. Rodman, I think, should be disqualified from consideration as a flopper, B-ball player, and member of the human species, so he doesn't count.

I know flopping has happened in the NBA before the Euro/South American influx, but to this degree???? I don't think so.

hey I agree flopping has became quite the side-sport of the NBA now a days, but it wasn't the international players that started the art. At least not in the NBA.

**agjm** · 05-30-2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BjhfwVY_p8

Raja Bell cracks me up.

**GrandeDavid** · 05-30-2007

If you ain't floppin' you aint' tryin'. And you keep a floppin until the refs ain't a buyin'.

**MaNuMaNiAc** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by GrandeDavid

If you ain't floppin' you aint' tryin'. And you keep a floppin until the refs ain't a buyin'.

**Jelly** · 05-30-2007

[QUOTE=MaNuMaNiAc]

jelly its not even a legitimate question. Soccer fouls are by far more dangerous than basketball fouls. Running into a guy in the NBA, even one as big as Shaq is not even close to being tackled at the speed players run in soccer. Also, I can't bring you the exact numbers, but its preety darn obvious professional soccer players get injured far more than basketball players, and their injuries are for the most part, far more severe. NBA injuries are what? ankle tweeking from bad falls, plantar fascitis, twisted wrists, perhaps a broken ankle here or there. I'm not saying severe injuries NEVER happen in basketball, but they are far more prevalent in soccer, no matter what woodwork you think I came out of

It is a legitimate question. There has got to be some numbers/figures that substantiate that. For istance, two years ago I read an article in ESPN magazine that football (American) is by far the most dangerous sport in the world (that includes soccer and rugby) according to risk management, sports agents, medical experts and insurance experts. They are far more likely to end their careers with serious and debilitating injuries than any other sport and they had figures to illustrate their point. Anecdotes just don't cut it. I know you love soccer Manumaniac, but even you have got to admit it's the "floppiest" sport out there. I'm sure there are some serious and dangerous injuries, but anecdotes don't prove anything. Forget exact numbers, aren't there ANY numbers?

As for the Manu starting the flopping trend, all I can say is you have got to be kidding me! Divac flopped like a fish out of water WAAAAY before Manu was even in the NBA's scope, and like the man above said, Lambeer and Rodman were floppers without the need of international players to teach them.

The key word is "trend". Yeah, we had fakers before, but not to this degree.

Yes, I can admit I was wrong... can you?

Of course. I have many times. I just made up that thing about Hakeem just to mess with you

**sa_butta** · 05-30-2007

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xNN9ZiH38fs

**MaNuMaNiAc** · 05-30-2007

Originally Posted by Jelly

It is a legitimate question. There has got to be some numbers/figures that substantiate that. For istance, two years ago I read an article in ESPN magazine that football (American) is by far the most dangerous sport in the world (that includes soccer and rugby) according to risk management, sports agents, medical experts and insurance experts. They are far more likely to end their careers with serious and debilitating injuries than any other sport and they had figures to illustrate their point. Anecdotes just don't cut it. I know you love soccer Manumaniac, but even you have got to admit it's the "floppiest" sport out there. I'm sure there are some serious and dangerous injuries, but anecdotes don't prove anything. Forget exact numbers, aren't there ANY numbers?

I can definitely believe that American football is one of the most dangerous sports out there. I know you want figures Jelly, and I personally can't give them to you, I'll try to find some but I doubt they are out there. I speak from years of watching and playing both sports. You say "I know you love soccer" like that invalidates what I'm trying to say? Flopping is big in soccer, there is no arguing that, but that doesn't mean there are not real fouls out there.

I don't need numbers. I've spent enough years watching, playing and studying both sports to know that fouls in soccer are far more violent and severe. In fact, its so obvious to me, its hard for me to understand how you can't realize it. Still, I understand my word isn't going to convince you of it, and that's fine. I'll keep looking for the numbers you want, until then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Of course. I have many times. I just made up that thing about Hakeem just to mess with you

I realize this, but nevertheless I was wrong about it.