How will Manu feel, Part II

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

actually he didn't look to happy or really wasn't into celebrating with the others. I even noticed that Tim tried to push him in there but it didn't work

I laughed at how stoic he was when the camera showed his lack of emotion, it was a little scary actually.

[aaronstampler]

Hopefully Manu doesn't play like he did versus the Suns. The Spurs need him to show up for more than half the series.

As far as the 2005 MVP goes, I still can't believe fans can't get over it. Duncan easily deserved it. If the award was called "Best Offense Player During The Finals Games That Were Played At Home", then yeah Manu should have won that award hands down.

As far as what this thread is about ... the thread starter must not understand how Manu works. He's Tim Duncan-esque as far as not caring out recognition. He doesn't GAF if he gets the credit, the limelight, the accolades or anything like that. Manu just wants to win. That's it.

I guess "Manu showing up" is defined solely on how many points he scores.

Anyway, I'm as happy as anyone we won in 2005, but I think you're engaging in revisionist history if you think Duncan played well. He pretty much played as badly as he can play in that series, thanks to Detroit throwing both Wallaces on him and also because he had two bad ankles.

Tim was a minus player in the series and Manu was like a +60 or whatever it was, and it can be argued that Horry was actually their 2nd best player in the Finals. Manu did have a couple of bad games in Detroit, but Tim struggled mightily as well. He barely shot 40% that series and the Pistons were crushing us inside and on the boards.

Tim is the best player in the NBA, but you have to admit he was severely limited in those finals.

[ArgSpursFan]

I wouldn´t be sorprised if Pop brings Manu back to the starting lineup for the finals,out of cortessy and appriciation for him.

[WalterBenitez]

Manu will get the MVP ... the only MVP he never got ... up to now ... later you hung up that #20 ... btw ... we coulg hung Beno, rigth?

[timvp]

I guess "Manu showing up" is defined solely on how many points he scores.

So 8 points per game on 25% shooting in three of the six games was Manu "showing up" for the entire series? He averaged six rebounds and four assists in those three games. That made up for his scoring?

Does Manu ever do anything wrong in your eyes?

Anyway, I'm as happy as anyone we won in 2005, but I think you're engaging in revisionist history if you think Duncan played well. He pretty much played as badly as he can play in that series, thanks to Detroit throwing both Wallaces on him and also because he had two bad ankles.

21 points, 15 rebounds, two assists and two blocks against a four-time defensive player of the year isn't good enough for you? And even though he was hurt, he led the team in minutes, points, rebounds and blocks.

He wasn't his usual greatness, but he could have played a lot worse considering his injury and who was guarding him.

Tim was a minus player in the series and Manu was like a +60 or whatever it was

Everytime you cite this stat, it gets more and more in Manu's favor. Get the right numbers if you are going to go back to it time and again.

And if plus/minus is so important, how can you then argue when I say Manu didn't show up for most of the Suns series? Manu was seventh on the team in plus/minus that series.

In fact Manu had the sixth best +/- in the Nuggets series, the seventh best +/- in the Suns series and the fifth best +/- in the Jazz series. All the while, you've been worshiping the same and come down on anyone saying he isn't having a stellar playoff run.

If you are going to use +/-, you can't only use it when it favors Manu.

And before you use the bench excuse like I know you will, Oberto led the team in +/- from off the bench in the Nuggets series. In the Suns series, Barry, Horry and Oberto had a better +/-.

Let's see you spin those +/- numbers.

and it can be argued that Horry was actually their 2nd best player in the Finals.

That might be your dumbest comment of all. You are seriously trying to say that Horry was the second best Spurs player in the Pistons series? Seriously?

Yeah Horry played well and had a huge Game 5 but to think he was more valuable or better than Duncan shows how challenged you are. And it shows how much time I waste responding to you.

That's just stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

We were being crushed on the boards when we averaged more boards than Detroit?

With Tim bringing down over 14 a game?

[Nikos]

I don't know what it is but Manu has dissapointed me this playoffs. Yes he had some very good games, but he just isn't the statistical beast in the playoffs as he was in 2005. Nor is he even matching his regular season outputs or exceeding them like he did in 2003 and 2004. His numbers are just not nearly as good as they were in the regular season. I don't think Parker's are as good as they could be either. Not that they are playing bad basketball, they are doing solid, but they both aren't touching their regular season numbers.

Manu isn't even his usual self int he +/- column as before, which means the Spurs are doing pretty darned good without him on the floor. Part of that is Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and solid play from others.

To me this playoff run has been most about Duncan, the team defense, and getting Parker, Manu, and others to show up at different times when needed. But no one outside of Duncan and Oberto are really 'stepping up' in the playoffs. Duncan is the only one really playing like a true 'beast'.

As for the 2005 playoffs, I definetly think you can make a case for Manu being the offensive MVP for the Spurs. Duncan deserved finals MVP because of his value on offense and defense -- I think Manu was the better offensive player that playoff and finals, but Duncan was the best overall player.

I think the stats show that Manu is not quite himself this playoffs. But at least Tony has picked up the slack in Manu's off games. In previous playoffs it was one or the other. Parker would do real well in 2004, then flame out, and Manu would just be solid. In 2005 it was mostly Manu with some Parker games in between. Last year they both were solid, but not good enough. This year it is similiar, but the team has just been more fortunate and solid both ends.

[TMTTRIO]

Hey Tim says that Manu doesn't have to score (just kidding)

"Honestly, it doesn't even matter if he makes a shot all game," Duncan said. "Just having him out there on the floor, making the hustle plays, knowing he's fighting and scrapping all he can, it's a big boost for us."

I think we're expecting too much out of Manu. Don't expect him to be the '05 Manu again but he can still make hustle plays out on the court. I do think Manu is a lot like Tim in that he doesn't care what people think about him and I really don't think he cares about media attention.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Hey Tim says that Manu doesn't have to score

I think we're expecting too much out of Manu. Don't expect him to be the '05 Manu again but he can still make hustle plays out on the court.

We don't really need Manu to offensively explode all the time. Game 5 is a great example of that. Everyone has been pulling their weight this season. I mean, I think Oberto's been averaging nearly 10 points ppg, and Finley's been above 10 ppg, Bowen will get at least two big 3's. And so forth.

[Phil Hellmuth]

this reminds me of some chick where the daddy buys her a car and it is a different color then she wanted.

can we say spoiled and INSIGNIFICANT???

[Manu Pacquiao]

He's a high impact kind of player, coming off the bench is Ok for him. Finley is like a slow burning lump of coal, and Manu as 6th man is like gunpowder.


He averaged 19pts, 4reb, 4ast and 2stl in the utah series, but somehow it feels like he's done more than the numbers show because he usually gets those points, rebounds, assists and steals when it really matters.

He's too jumpshot happy this playoffs, but maybe he'll be more agressive in the Finals. Maybe he's saving his body from too much punishment so he'll still be fresh in the western conference finals and the NBA finals. Then he'll be Jackie Manu Chan, Buster Manu Keaton, and Manu Knievel again.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

If there's any time for Manu to stop "Saving" himself, and just go all knives out. It's in the upcoming series.

The Finals are the biggest stage. No more waiting, no more anticipation.

[slayermin]

Manu comes off the bench and wins the Finals MVP. That would be a perfect ending.

[Manudona]

Manu comes off the bench and wins the Finals MVP. That would be a perfect ending.

That is my "Director's Cut" ending, unfortunately, as always, the producers will screw up. The only way Manu can win coming from the bench is the matches are close, because if they are blow outs like game 5 vs Utah, there is no way in Manu will be even mentioned as a contributor, let alone finals mvp, and that is one sacrifice Manu is doing coming from the bench, he is risking being a non-factor, and worst, carries the responsibility of lifting the team when it is sucking, something is not easy to do

[aaronstampler]

So 8 points per game on 25% shooting in three of the six games was Manu "showing up" for the entire series? He averaged six rebounds and four assists in those three games. That made up for his scoring?

Does Manu ever do anything wrong in your eyes?

There's more to a game than scoring points. If the rebounding and assists and defense are still there, you can't say a player had a total horrible, nothing performance just because he didn't score a lot. If in one of those games Manu had 20 points on 18 shots with 0 rebounds and 0 assists and defense, would you say he played well? No you wouldn't. So how can you say he plays terrible the other way then?

21 points, 15 rebounds, two assists and two blocks against a four-time defensive player of the year isn't good enough for you? And even though he was hurt, he led the team in minutes, points, rebounds and blocks.

He wasn't his usual greatness, but he could have played a lot worse considering his injury and who was guarding him.

Took him an ass load of shots to get those 21 points per. And don't even get me started on all those turnovers. And last I checked, Rasheed isn't a four-time winner of anything. It's funny how with Tim everything besides points count, but with Manu you dismiss all the other stuff completely.

I don't get what your insecurity complex with Tim is. We all know he's the best player on the team, the best player in the league, the best player of the past decade. Nobody is taking anything away from him. But it like literally pains you to give Manu credit for anything, lest it take away from the mighty Duncan's legacy. Tim really doesn't need your help dude. I'm pretty sure he knows he's very good. There's a reason half the crowd bood when the voting got announced, because people who actually watched the games realized he wasn't their best player in that one series. God forbid that out of all the playoff series he's played his entire career that we can say just one measly series he wasn't our best player. Prepare for armegeddon!!!

If the NBA Finals award worked like hockey's Conn Smythe, you'd have a better argument. But if you don't want to give Manu credit for anything he does besides score, then I certainly shouldn't have to give Tim credit for being an inefficient, turnover prone mess in the '05 finals. He was certainly better protecting his own basket than scoring at Detroit's basket. And last I checked, most people think pretty highly of this Prince character, and Manu did pretty well against him. In fact, Manu's head-to-head domination of him (and they did match up on both ends) in games 1-2 were the main reason we were up 2-0 that series. John Hollinger even pointed that out. I guess you missed it.

Everytime you cite this stat, it gets more and more in Manu's favor. Get the right numbers if you are going to go back to it time and again.

And if plus/minus is so important, how can you then argue when I say Manu didn't show up for most of the Suns series? Manu was seventh on the team in plus/minus that series.

In fact Manu had the sixth best +/- in the Nuggets series, the seventh best +/- in the Suns series and the fifth best +/- in the Jazz series. All the while, you've been worshiping the same and come down on anyone saying he isn't having a stellar playoff run.

If you are going to use +/-, you can't only use it when it favors Manu.

And before you use the bench excuse like I know you will, Oberto led the team in +/- from off the bench in the Nuggets series. In the Suns series, Barry, Horry and Oberto had a better +/-.

Let's see you spin those +/- numbers.

Actually he was tied for 4th vs Utah, with Tony, with +29. And those numbers were skewed by the complete blowouts in Games 3 and 5. If you look at the three meat games of the series, when the games were close, games 1,2, and 4, I think you'd find a more representative sample of how guys played. Manu played like what, 20 mins in Game 5? Maybe five of those in the second half? , 20 of Tony's +29 came in the last game. Bruce was +16 for the series, yet +24 in game 5. Which tells you more, the first four games or the fifth? If you really want to use a total blowout to tip the scales, go for it.

That might be your dumbest comment of all. You are seriously trying to say that Horry was the second best Spurs player in the Pistons series? Seriously?

Yeah Horry played well and had a huge Game 5 but to think he was more valuable or better than Duncan shows how challenged you are. And it shows how much time I waste responding to you.

That's just stupid.

You constantly defend Robert's contributions as a role player more than anyone on this board. In that series he did everything you could possibly want from him. He rebounded, passed, played great defense. He was our second best +/- that series. I bet in your report cards, if you were doing them, he consistently graded very well.

P.S. I totally enjoy how you pepper every post with put downs, insults, excessive sarcasm and just general jackass behavior. When I disagree with you, I still try to be respectful and talk to you like an adult. I guess it's too much to ask for you to return the courtesy. You act the same way toward me no matter how polite I am, it's just who you are. I know I haven't "shown you up" at all and I haven't done anything mean. I've simply disagreed with you. Still, you resort to childish insults and bullying tactics. It's just immature. I don't care if it's your board. I don't care if your wife runs it. I have a right to disagree with you about certain things and you have to deal with it. If you cannot be civil with me, either ignore me or ban me but realize I have not been disrespectful towards you.

[WalterBenitez]

Has there ever been a Finals MVP that comes off the bench? He could possibly be the first.

I hope so ... but for me is more important getting the ring, so ... I prefer got the ring ... and whoever be named MVP!, even Beno!