Texas A&M @ Rice: Super Regional

[RonMexico]

3. i admitted nothing other than t.u. has fans. seriously, when things aren't going well sports wise, they have as much support as baylor

JGW does have a point here... which school created the "Fire Mack Brown" website? How many jumped off when Colt had a bad game? How many claim that their star players were merely "thugs" when they finally get arrested? How often do you see UT fans heading up the stairs at DKR when OU kicks their ass again?

Texas has more bandwagon and fairweather fans than any program in the nation, so don't try to act all high and mighty.

[RonMexico]

Uh... when I went to the OSU win in 2003 at aggieland, the visitor's area was overflowing and the upperdecks were 15-20% orange with quite a few empties. There was a great smattering or Orange throughout the bottom bowl as well. Nothing extremely sizable, but Orange sure sticks out on the 50-yard line in a bunch of moron and makes it real easy to see.

Hmmm, the childish use of the term "moron" is obviously not a misspelling for the "perfect" CaptMike, so it must be an immature stab at humor.

Yeah - they also sucked it up that year.

[johngateswhiteley]

Texas has more bandwagon and fairweather fans than any program in the nation, so don't try to act all high and mighty.

its so true, but i doubt t.u. fans will admit it.

[RonMexico]

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/...ATTENDANCE.pdf

Texas - %110 - 88505 avg attendance
A&M - %92 - 75985 avg attendance

I'm quoting your post because it's shorter than the others, but let's look at the attendance figures objectively:

(a) Coach Fran is in the hot seat and people have been put-off by his inconsistency in consecutive years (i.e. Cotton Bowl appearence followed by a losing season with practically the same team).

(b) A&M's non-conference schedules have been quite cupcake recently because Fran needs to build up wins and confidence for his team and no one is going to drive 500 miles to deal with College Station traffic just to watch The Citadel play.

(c) A&M continually has games that start around 2:30 p.m. and who the wants to head into a stadium on a September day in Texas at that time? Just because attendance inside the stadium is low, the activity in and around the school is still very high on game days because some people might prefer drinking booze and watching the game on their TVs out in the parking lot. I know I've driven from Houston to go to tailgates and then watched the game at a friend's house in College Station because I like Bud Light and air conditioning.

(d) Even the cupcake non-conference victories are suspect at times (who could have thought TAMU would win AT Texas after seeing that game against Army last year?), and so most people wouldn't want to drive 500 miles to see A&M lose to some pipsqueak B12 opponent like Iowa State or Okie State.... again, in the dead heat of a 2:30 p.m. start time.

(e) A&M and UT continually have similar athletic revenue numbers year after year and that's a stronger indicator of each school's support (I'll find the website to back these up later)... even moreso for A&M when you factor in the bandwagon UT fan in Los Angeles who likes Vince Young/Kevin Durant or burnt orange (about 5% of merchandise sales).

[Holmes_Fans]

(a) Coach Fran is in the hot seat and people have been put-off by his inconsistency in consecutive years (i.e. Cotton Bowl appearence followed by a losing season with practically the same team).


so was MB like you said before. The stadium was still near capacity


(b) A&M's non-conference schedules have been quite cupcake recently because Fran needs to build up wins and confidence for his team and no one is going to drive 500 miles to deal with College Station traffic just to watch The Citadel play.


So is Texas', other than OSU it's usually garbage.


(c) A&M continually has games that start around 2:30 p.m. and who the wants to head into a stadium on a September day in Texas at that time? Just because attendance inside the stadium is low, the activity in and around the school is still very high on game days because some people might prefer drinking booze and watching the game on their TVs out in the parking lot. I know I've driven from Houston to go to tailgates and then watched the game at a friend's house in College Station because I like Bud Light and air conditioning.


Texas had a game start at like 10 or 11, against SAM HOUSTON STATE, and it was still a sellout


(d) Even the cupcake non-conference victories are suspect at times (who could have thought TAMU would win AT Texas after seeing that game against Army last year?), and so most people wouldn't want to drive 500 miles to see A&M lose to some pipsqueak B12 opponent like Iowa State or Okie State.... again, in the dead heat of a 2:30 p.m. start time.


I was shocked at the way Texas lost. The defense showed up and only allowed 12 points, and it was a crappy offense with a %60 McCoy playing that sucked it up.


(e) A&M and UT continually have similar athletic revenue numbers year after year and that's a stronger indicator of each school's support (I'll find the website to back these up later)... even moreso for A&M when you factor in the bandwagon UT fan in Los Angeles who likes Vince Young/Kevin Durant or burnt orange (about 5% of merchandise sales).

No, UT always has higher football attendance. Even if last year was a down year, stands would still be full. And you can bet UT could sell out more than 3 games in 5 years even if they were sucking it up like A&M.

[RonMexico]

Holmes Fans should become "Ultimate Homer"

So Texas' defense showed up when they only allowed 12 points, but I guess the porous A&M defense that gave up 24 to Army was simply awful when they gave up 7?

Ok, so UT is in a city of over 500,000 people and the majority of them are not students... They also aren't anywhere close to a major pro football team so I kind of think the school is all they have. College Station has 68,000 people TOTAL in the city and so they need to get ALL of them in the stands + 12,000 more to reach capacity. Again, my last point was about Athletic Revenue and not football attendance, so I guess you missed the boat on that one.

Show me the down years where UT was at capacity... I really would like to see those numbers from the 80s because I'm sure they were putting up 110% attendance numbers. Oh, and 10 or 11 a.m. is a LOT nicer than 2:30 p.m. Why do you think twilight golf starts at 3 p.m. at almost every course in America? BECAUSE it's the hottest ing part of the day, you idiot.... please look at the hour-by-hour temps on weather.com for once. A&M fans are sitting in the heat as the Sun is setting low and in their eyes from 2:30 - 6:30 while UT fans are getting to head home/hotel and rest from 2:30 until hitting the bars at night.

You're comparing Sam Houston State to the Citadel? A&M would be at capacity if Sam Houston showed up because there's something about having bragging rights in Texas... where football is king at every school...

Mack Brown was on the hot seat when he won 10+ games every year... how many times did he bust out with a 9-3 season and then follow it up with a 4-7 stinker and team infighting? Only time you guys gave him a breather was after he FINALLY beat OU, dumbass, and that says more about fickle UT fans than it does anything else. Fran is legitimately on the hot seat - you guys call for Mack's head if he loses to K-State with Colt injured.

Lastly, look at the logistics of it - fuel costs have been getting higher across the nation - it COSTS more to travel to A&M games for MOST Aggie fans/grads. The closest town of any size in which people could commute (i.e. travel to game and head home) is 90 miles away in Houston... you guys have towns like SA, San Marcos, Buda, Killeen, Pflugerville to name a few that are within a Houston-like distance. Therefore, most Aggie fans have to pay for a hotel, which adds more to the cost.

Oh, and please try to distinguish a "sell-out" from actual attendance numbers. There are plenty of people that have bought tickets to a late-season Big 12 game and NOT shown up because Fran is 4-5 and they have to play OU and UT in consectutive weeks. That's why I said look at REVENUE instead of attendance for an indication of financial support.

There is one constant in this world - fans in Texas will support a WINNER consistently (look at Aggie basketball Big 12 attendance numbers). You can't compare Mack Brown's "hot-seat" of 7 consecutive bowl appearences to Fran's piece of tenure that includes a SINGLE win over Texas, especially when the alums look at the incredible amount of talent and money he has for this program.

[leemajors]

personally, i never went to the 10 or 11 am games when i was in school. way too hung over for that that early.

[RonMexico]

personally, i never went to the 10 or 11 am games when i was in school. way too hung over for that that early.

But you're not the 50-year-old die-hard alum who likes 10 or 11 a.m. start times and is willing to donate a sizeable sum of money year after year for the opportunity to spend even more money on season tickets. It's all about the bottom line and there will always be willing students to fill the stands (i.e. you never see the student section at A&M empty), but it's the other 50,000 people they need to accomodate.

[degenerate_gambler]

This link compares revenues of UT and A&M athletic dept. from 2004-05:

http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/


This is damn comprehensive site and if you want to check on an individual school, they have a table that breaks down revenues vs. expenses so that you can see who's athletic depts. are operating in the red (more than I would have thought) and those that make money, which in alot of cases isn't a whole lot.



**edit** try the main page instead.

[RonMexico]

This link compares revenues of UT and A&M athletic dept. from 2004-05:

http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financ...ool_comparison


This is damn comprehensive site and if you want to check on an individual school, they have a table that breaks down revenues vs. expenses so that you can see who's athletic depts. are operating in the red (more than I would have thought) and those that make money, which in alot of cases isn't a whole lot.

I couldn't open the link... anyone else have problems?

[Holmes_Fans]

"So Texas' defense showed up when they only allowed 12 points, but I guess the porous A&M defense that gave up 24 to Army was simply awful when they gave up 7?"


Who said A&Ms defense was porous? Not me, there defense was probably the best they played all year. Colt wasn't %100 either, went down even further after the Heard cheapshot. We all knew A&M was gonna bring it %110, it's the only game that matters to them.



"Ok, so UT is in a city of over 500,000 people and the majority of them are not students... They also aren't anywhere close to a major pro football team so I kind of think the school is all they have. College Station has 68,000 people TOTAL in the city and so they need to get ALL of them in the stands + 12,000 more to reach capacity. Again, my last point was about Athletic Revenue and not football attendance, so I guess you missed the boat on that one."


A&M is always boasting on how they have the best fans in america. They should easily be able to sell out that stadium. Look below for revenue



"Show me the down years where UT was at capacity... I really would like to see those numbers from the 80s because I'm sure they were putting up 110% attendance numbers. Oh, and 10 or 11 a.m. is a LOT nicer than 2:30 p.m. Why do you think twilight golf starts at 3 p.m. at almost every course in America? BECAUSE it's the hottest ing part of the day, you idiot.... please look at the hour-by-hour temps on weather.com for once. A&M fans are sitting in the heat as the Sun is setting low and in their eyes from 2:30 - 6:30 while UT fans are getting to head home/hotel and rest from 2:30 until hitting the bars at night."


Not really, during the summer months it's already in the 90s at 11 am. A&M doesn't play many nationally televised games, they could schedule them later.

Show me where A&M have EVER been at %100 capacity. Even during their good run in the 90s they couldn't sell out. Texas on the other hand has had 40 consecutive sellouts dating back to 2000



"You're comparing Sam Houston State to the Citadel? A&M would be at capacity if Sam Houston showed up because there's something about having bragging rights in Texas... where football is king at every school..."


LOL, A&M would be at capacity for SHS? They have sold out a whopping 3 games the past 5 years, and the only school A&M cares about beating is Texas.


"Mack Brown was on the hot seat when he won 10+ games every year... how many times did he bust out with a 9-3 season and then follow it up with a 4-7 stinker and team infighting? Only time you guys gave him a breather was after he FINALLY beat OU, dumbass, and that says more about fickle UT fans than it does anything else. Fran is legitimately on the hot seat - you guys call for Mack's head if he loses to K-State with Colt injured."


Fran is the same way, he guranteed himself atleast 2 more years since he FINALLY beat Texas. Actually the defensive coaches were, the offense still put up 40 something points I think with Jevan Sneed, it was the ty defense that lost the game. If A&M has absolutely no fair weather fans and supposedly the best fans in america, it shouldn't matter if they are undefeated or at .500



"Lastly, look at the logistics of it - fuel costs have been getting higher across the nation - it COSTS more to travel to A&M games for MOST Aggie fans/grads. The closest town of any size in which people could commute (i.e. travel to game and head home) is 90 miles away in Houston... you guys have towns like SA, San Marcos, Buda, Killeen, Pflugerville to name a few that are within a Houston-like distance. Therefore, most Aggie fans have to pay for a hotel, which adds more to the cost."


They wouldn't have to stay in a hotel, every game is apparently at 2:30. Leaves plenty of time to get there and back. Texas fan's make the travel, A&M with a completely non fair weather fan base should to. People will make the travel regardless of gas prices. Like you said Texas is king for football, if someone will drive 6-10 hours for a HS game, a aggie fan will drive a few hours for a chance to see them in person. Fuel wasn't expensive a couple years ago, where were the fans then?

and actually according to mapquest, it's a 7 minute shorter drive from Killeen to CS. Those towns are non-factors in attendance, like I said people will drive far if they really want to see the team. I drove from Dallas to San Antonio to watch the 4a state championship



"Oh, and please try to distinguish a "sell-out" from actual attendance numbers. There are plenty of people that have bought tickets to a late-season Big 12 game and NOT shown up because Fran is 4-5 and they have to play OU and UT in consectutive weeks. That's why I said look at REVENUE instead of attendance for an indication of financial support."

You want to compare revenue?

UT
Football: $60,880,069
Basketball: $14,567,903
Total Revenues: $97,756,777

Aggy
Football: $36,086,026
Basketball: $6,731,530
Total Revenues: $70,923,550

pwned
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/main.asp

and the tickets aren't counted unless they are used. But thinks for confirming the fair-weatherness of aggies. They buy tickets and don't even game because they suck


"There is one constant in this world - fans in Texas will support a WINNER consistently (look at Aggie basketball Big 12 attendance numbers). You can't compare Mack Brown's "hot-seat" of 7 consecutive bowl appearences to Fran's piece of tenure that includes a SINGLE win over Texas, especially when the alums look at the incredible amount of talent and money he has for this program."

40 consecutive sellouts dating back to 2000. And I am sure the A&M was selling out basketball arenas 3 years ago

[RonMexico]

I have a better link right here:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetail.asp?CRITERIA=3

2005-2006 TAMU football revenue: $36,086,026
2005-2006 TAMU football expense: $13,616,098
2005-2006 TAMU football profit: $22,469,928

2005-2006 UT football revenue: $60,880,069
2005-2006 UT football expense: $18,425,454
2005-2006 UT football profit: $42,454,615

2005-2006 Florida football revenue: $48,194,552
2005-2006 Florida football expense: $15,824,747
2005-2006 Florida football profit: $32,369,805

I stand corrected on some of my earlier comments... UT bandwagon fans must be 10% of the fanbase instead of 5%... haha.

Total profits among all programs for 2005-2006:

TAMU: $20,788,419
UT: $46,305,528 (excluding players' salaries)
UF: $29,594,983

And for CaptMike: OSU total profit in 2005-2006 = $14,084,227 (Football revenues were only $16,000,000).

[leemajors]

But you're not the 50-year-old die-hard alum who likes 10 or 11 a.m. start times and is willing to donate a sizeable sum of money year after year for the opportunity to spend even more money on season tickets. It's all about the bottom line and there will always be willing students to fill the stands (i.e. you never see the student section at A&M empty), but it's the other 50,000 people they need to accomodate.

i'm glad i had graduated by the time they moved the student section to the upper level, which was an incredibly lame move.

[leemajors]

its so true, but i doubt t.u. fans will admit it.

USC is in LA isn't it?

[degenerate_gambler]

TAMU: $20,788,419
UT: $46,305,528 (excluding players' salaries)
UF: $29,594,983

nice!


Mexico...did you try the link above again?

[RonMexico]

"Not really, during the summer months it's already in the 90s at 11 am. A&M doesn't play many nationally televised games, they could schedule them later."

Football is played during the summer? It's hotter at 11 a.m. than it is at 3 p.m.? Wow, I really wish I went to meteorology at UT - I would have a stellar education.

A&M played on ABC 5 times last year and every game except for the OU game (national TV - 6:30 p.m.) and the UT game (national TV - 11 a.m.) was at 2:30 p.m. Every single Big 12 game is listed as TBA on the schedule because A&M constantly is waiting each week to see if and when it gets picked up by FSN or ABC (and they can't plan it out because Fran is so inconsistent).

"They wouldn't have to stay in a hotel, every game is apparently at 2:30. Leaves plenty of time to get there and back. Texas fan's make the travel, A&M with a completely non fair weather fan base should to. People will make the travel regardless of gas prices. Like you said Texas is king for football, if someone will drive 6-10 hours for a HS game, a aggie fan will drive a few hours for a chance to see them in person. Fuel wasn't expensive a couple years ago, where were the fans then?"

Texas fan's make the travel? I just proved to you that they don't - everywhere you go down I-35 from Austin to SA, there is either a 'Horns flag or sign right next to "Go Spurs Go." Yes, they will drive 6-10 hours from Midland to see the game, but you think it's safe to drive BACK at 8 p.m. after sitting the Sun all day? Please, they're going to want to spend the night and then drive back, so let's be logical about this. We already know you're an idiot so even if you made the Dallas to SA trip for a meaningless high school game, a 45-year-old with his wife and 3 kids is not going to want to make the Mineral Wells to College Station round-trip in the same day.

I was wrong about revenue (although it confirms Texas's bandwagon following), but I'm not wrong that they're allowed to count tickets sold but not used as actual revenue which is the real point I was trying to make.

You're trying to tell me that Buda, San Marcos, San Antonio, New Braunfels and the city of Austin (in heart of HS football country with no pro team to support) don't contribute to the attendance numbers of UT football games? Are you that obtuse? An interstate runs through the city (I'll admit, traffic sucks a lot, but still), while A&M does not have a single interstate that runs to it, so it's still more difficult to get to the games.

It's not "fairweather" to save your money when a team keeps LOSING. You're giving me sell-out numbers since 2000? Didn't I just say that Texas had at least 7 consecutive bowl appearences? How is that inconsistent with the points I've been trying to make - when the team is winning, TAMU fans are the most rabid in the nation and that's why they used to be ranked in the top 10 toughest places to play. If Fran puts together another winning season without 1-point losses, then the sky is the limit.

[RonMexico]

nice!


Mexico...did you try the link above again?

I'm gonna try it in a second - sorry that those profit totals were only for the Men's teams... when you factor in le XIV, and also take into account the "other revenue and expenses" (i.e. maintenance, utility costs, and merchandise sales/revenue sharing) the profit breakdown for a few choice schools is as follows:

TAMU: $9,504,016
UT: $14,156,528
UF: $4,212,039
OSU: $9,580,113
OU: $199,392 (I know - I couldn't believe it either)

[RonMexico]

from the page degenerate found:

Big 12 Schools ranked by football ticket sales:

1. Texas A&M University $21,949,047

2. University of Texas $20,161,278


Big 12 Schools ranked by football contributions:

1. University of Texas $15,680,307

2. Texas A&M University $5,244,392 (this is where UT makes up huge ground)


Big 12 Schools ranked by football conference distributions:

1. Texas A&M University $7,552,987

2. University of Texas $7,099,874


Big 12 Schools ranked by football advertisements:

1. University of Texas $6,146,571 (no doubt a lot of that comes from the littany of ads that surround DKR's jumbotron)

2. Texas A&M University $1,238,650


Big 12 Schools ranked by football gameday items:

1. University of Texas $1,205,068

2. Texas A&M University $1,192,974


If anyone doubts that the two schools are #1 and #2 in every major football revenue category not only in the state but also in the Big 12, then they can just shut up right now. However, I find it interesting that I was correct about A&M selling more tickets, but I was way off-base with the amount of fiscal contributions to the schools (unless A&M spreads it's 12th Man donations among more sports).

Update: I just looked that A&M allocates about $7 million in non-program specific contributions, while UT allocates only $400,000... leaving UT with $22m in total contributions and A&M with $17m in total contributions.