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Dampier's mere presence means Dirk doesn't have to slide over to C. Never said he was the second coming of Bill Russell.
Tim Duncan
Amare Stoudemire
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Garnett
Carlos Boozer
Chris Bosh
Dampier's mere presence means Dirk doesn't have to slide over to C. Never said he was the second coming of Bill Russell.
No, it isn't his game - but maybe he should consider making post play at least a small part of his game, something else he can go to when the jumper isn't falling.
Dirk plays like a guard, but with the rebounding prowess of the 7-footer that he is - he's great, but as a player, you always want to find ways to improve. The best example might be Tony Parker - he was always very fast, and could get to the rack at will - but it was easier to stop him then because he didn't have much of an outside shot - whereas now he has a reliable jumper that opponents have to respect, thus making him virtually unguardable. It's the same with Dirk. He might never win defensive player of the year, but he could definitely put his size and length to better use closer to the basket - it doesn't even have to be a varied array of moves like Tim's; a little jump hook here and there can only help to make him even more of a threat.
Yeah, after blowing a 3-1 series lead and winning game 7 because of a Manu Ginobili foul. Dampier's a decent player, but he's not going to consistently 'dunk on' people - eventually he's gonna get thrown down and have to make FTs - he ain't too good at that.So I guess us beating the ultimate half-court defensively-minded team in the playoffs last year didn't happen. Dirk's a a decent help defender, he's a lousy one on one defender. That's why we got Damp and Diop, so Dirk doesn't have to draw those defensive assignments and get in foul trouble. We could've sorely used Dampier against the Warriors, but he only played 7 mpg with a torn rotator cuff. He wasn't going to do the team any good in his physical condition. Dirk can't guard Timmy, but Timmy can't guard Dirk either. The Spurs stick Bowen on Howard and then Dirk forces Duncan to come out and guard him on the high post. Doesn't mean Timmy's not a great player, but we have a mismatch that puts Duncan in a position for which he is ill-suited. Kinda like how Damp's injury forced Avery to slide Dirk over to C, a position for which he isn't suited.
The situation with Tim and Dirk is similar to the situation with Tim and Rasheed - except Sheed has more range. It's basically just a case of two great players cancelling each other out - but again, when the jumpshot ain't falling, where do you go? Tim and Sheed both have passable post games, but Dirk does not. It doesn't mean he isn't still a great player, it just means it's a little easier to stop him. Versatility is a very highly valued commodity in the NBA; it's why Joe Dumars hasn't given up on Rasheed - despite the techs and the at ude. It's also how Scottie Pippen garnered a lot of his fame.
kenny thomas
your must not of understood what i meant from the beginning.
NOT ONLY did their teams make the playoffs, they score more, rebound more, they were all stars this year Brand was not, and thier teams have a brighter future than the Clippers, as do they individually. THAT IS 5 REASONS. Thats not saying Brand isnt better in some areas, but OVERALL these two are better.
ok sorry I didnt make it clear enough for you, not THE leader but A leader of the team. which certainly Amare is. And certainly Alston is not.
and just shutup about the KG argument, you know your just pulling for straws on that one. The reasons for Duncan being better that KG are just too obvious.
I will have a nice day thank you, knowing I get to argue with someone intelligent and nice as yourself.
based on what? haha
Based on he lit him up and sent him home. Only Shaq/Kobe and Malone/Stockton can say that. Elite company indeed. Timmy's the best PF of alltime, but everytime Pop sticks Bowen on Howard and Timmy has to tread out to the high post to guard Dirk, it's comical.
Such a high % of re ed homers in the Spurs fanbase. It's one thing for other fanbases to on Dirk, I would think Spurs fan would know better. Too bad that "class" of the Spurs organization doesn't rub off on their fans.
know better?
seriously, im not benig a or anything i really am confused.
stop dancing around the ing subject because you just got ing owned.know better?
seriously, im not benig a or anything i really am confused.
owned? how big of a nerd are you.
Im not even the one he responded to, pay attention.
Last edited by gaKNOW!blee; 06-17-2007 at 10:22 PM.
Just all of the ting on Dirk, he played a subpar series against Golden State and he deserves criticism for that, but jeezus, listening to some of your fellow Spurs fans, he's a scrub that shouldn't be in the League. Such, as Tony Parker is better than Dirk, Dirk is nothing but a choker, when he showed plenty of heart and courage in getting his team past San Antonio.
Avery slid him over to C for the series against Golden State because Dampier had a torn rotator cuff. He put up 19, 10 and 3 against the Warriors, that's subpar by his standards, but it's not bad at all, we lost that series as a team, you can't put it all on Dirk. Avery was completely outcoached by Nellie, none of our other guys stepped up and hit open shots when Dirk was swarmed with double and triple teams. Dirk had a worse series two years ago against Houston but we advanced because Terry, Stack and Howard all had good series and made Houston pay for the defensive attention paid to Dirk. There's a reason we've gone from the dregs of the League to a le contender and it's mainly Dirk. He's a special talent. I don't know if he'll ever lead a team to a le, but if he doesn't, he'll come close. Duncan is shutting a lot of guys out from les the way Jordan did. People talk about Dirk choking in the Finals against the Heat when Wade stepped his game up and we had no perimeter defenders that could stop him. Is that Dirk's fault? Did he guard Wade? Did Wade guard him? He's a 90% FT shooter and he missed one at the end of G3 that would've sent it to OT - is it automatic that we win in OT? Wade missed two FTs at the end of G6 that would've iced it - does that mean Wade is a choker? We didn't capitalize on it, otherwise, there's no difference between Wade at the end of G6 and Dirk at the end of G3. You guys coughed up a 3 point lead with 30 seconds to go in Game 7, you coughed up a 2-0 lead in 2004 against the Lakers, are the Spurs chokers? The Spurs are division rivals and I don't wish them success, but I honestly don't hate them, they deserve the success they've had. But I don't get the level of hatred and animosity towards Dallas, even given that we're rivals, such as all of the anti-Mav threads after you just won a fourth le. Aren't we just as irrelevant as the other 29 teams? For all of the talk of envy on our part towards you guys, what's with the attention focused on us when we don't come close to measuring up when comparing the amount of success of the two franchises? I honestly don't get it.
Ever since MJ, there's been too much emphasis on "The Man," when teams win or lose based on the sum of their parts. KG is a terrific player but he's never had good teammates. The one year he did, he got his team to the Conference Finals, where they ran into a better team.
Last edited by Findog; 06-17-2007 at 10:29 PM.
wow, a Mavs fan that can be rational and make good points without swearing and being a complete jackass about it *cough nsrammstein and monosylab1k cough*
Personally I would take Dirk over a lot of players in the league. I mean Im not gonna sit here and act like I like him because he is a Mavs player and thats what a rivalry is about. However, I know he is a good player and what he did in game 5 was pretty amazing if you ask me.
that being said, he obviously has flaws to his game. It seems like alot of european players dont have that killer instinct when they come to the NBA, and I think Dirk is one of them.
I honestly don't think Euro players come by that "I'm the Man and I'm gonna dominate and there ain't nothin you can do about it" mindset naturally. It's a team game over there without emphasis on stars and such. When I was in high school, we were sister schools with a gymnasium in Germany and one year they would send a group of kids here and the next year we'd sent a group of kids there. The year the Germans came to our school, one day there was a pickup game in the gym and a group of black guys that played pickup basketball all day, every day challenged some of the German kids to a game. Some of the Americans were pretty talented but they were all one on one players. It was obvious watching the Germans that basketball was not their number one sport, soccer was, and everytime the black kids had the ball, one guy would get it at the top of the key, isolate and try to take his man off the dribble one on one. Sometimes he'd get it to drop and sometimes he'd miss. Everytime the Germans had the ball, they'd pass and work hard to get good looks. Basketball wasn't even their first sport, but they barely lost. I thought they were gonna get killed. So Dirk wasn't taught basketball with an emphasis on clearouts and one on one play. Dirk has had to be taught that kind of thing and it's obvious it's not something that is naturally him. I never thought a Euro player could come in here and lead a team to a le, and Dirk will most likely be the first.
I should also extend that to international players, because I see it with Yao as well. I think the Spurs got lucky with Manu, he seems to have "it" like not many players do. Its the reason the USA doesnt dominant sports in the world anymore, is becuase it has become all about ME and I and not US. Its great to work as a team and all that but if international players want to win in the league alot of them have idolized(sp?) thier whole lives they are gonna have to realize that its a stars league, and stars win championships. As much as the Spurs are a great team, dont kid yourself, without Tim Duncan they are struggling to get in the playoffs.
sorry that my rational, good points come with swearing and jackassery. it's just too bad that the next rationonal, good point you come up with will be your first.
I think that Diop did a better job by himself than Dampier could possibly do, bad shoulder or not. Offensively Diop got just as many "cleanup" points that we could have hoped for from Damp, plus he played better defense and rebounded nearly as well.
so better scoring, rebounding, playoffs, all stars, and brighter futures are not rational at all? those are just things that dont contribute to basketball at all?
using 1 year as your entire basis is just stupid.
1 year ago today people were talking about brand being a potential mvp candidate and nobody gave a about carlos boozer. most people thought he was a decent PF but not anything special. he's had one great year. bosh has had one or two great years. brand has had about 4 or 5.
The future is here man.
Rational, very rational. Lots of good points there. You make a great case there.
"The future is here"
They said the same thing about Kenyon Martin after his one good year.
28 year old, scoring average just decreased by 4 points a game. playing on a team that had its run in the sun and is going no where.
25 year old, scoring average just increased by 4 points. playing on a team that was just WC runner ups.
23 year old, scoring increased 6 points last year, stayed constant this year. playing on a team that was just a 3 seed with a young nucleus.
which two are you taking?
Minus some real asshats in this thread, its a damn good breakdown of the position.
well the thread has basically just become myself and monosylab1k lol.
28 year old, performed consistently well his entire career, a guy that gives you around 20/10 almost every night guaranteed. Best post game in the league after Tim Duncan. Strong defensive player who has averaged over 2 blocks per game ever year of his entire career. Considered a frontrunner for league MVP the previous season, and performed incredibly well in last year's playoff run. Nearly carried a team to the playoffs this season that was decimated with injuries the entire season.
25 years old, generally regarded as little more than an above average player until he had his first really good year after his star PG emerged as the team leader. Strong but unathletic, an average defensive player at best.
23 years old, tall and athletic. Despite the false claim quoted above, his scoring average increased a scintillating 0.1 points per game last year. Solid defensive player, yet despite being considered one of the most athletic players in the league and being 2 inches taller than the aforementioned 28 year old player, he still averages close to 1 block LESS per game than the 28 year old. Performed very poorly in his one playoff series. For better or worse, looks to be nothing better than a toothpick skinny version of Kevin Garnett with less defensive IQ.
Once you're gone from the thread, it will be completely devoid of asshats. thanks.
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