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argentina is not exactly europe
Dirk Nowitzki
Tony Parker
Boris Diaw
Peja Stojakovic
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Mehmet Okur
Andrei Kirilenko
right now...... dirk
best European player ever.....
argentina is not exactly europe
Europe... S. America.... same difference.
Yeah, that's my goof. I kept trying to avoid thinking "foreign players" but it just happened eventually.
Well Avery has always wanted us to be more Spur-like. You guys gave away a 3 point lead in Game 7 against us and a 2-0 lead to the Lakers in 2004. We learned how to choke from the Master.
That has to be the stupidest post ever. We gave up a 3 point lead? Didn't Dallas have a 21 point lead in that game?
Agreed. When you factor in defense, he's better than Nash overall, even if Nash is a better creator and a better outside shooter. There's a reason Nash's teams have never beaten Parker's teams in the playoffs, aside from Duncan.It's difficult not to see Parker as the next dominant point right now. He's one of the most unguardable players in the league, and he's pretty damn solid on defense.
Well, that's fine, Parker is fast becoming one of the elite players in the League. I was just mainly reacting to your homers that kept asserting Parker > Dirk.However, I agree with the statement that Dirk is still the best Euro-player. I was merely attempting to assert the claim that Parker deserves to be in contention, or mentioned in the same breath, as more than a completely fallacious one. But of course, making any kind of a statement other than black and white on this board is immediately pissed upon.
Well, I'm gonna defend my team within reason. I'm not some bandwagoner that jumps off when times are tough. Dirk deserves plenty of criticism for GState, but it's just snowballed into stupid smacktalk: "He's a loser, he's a choker." If Warriors fans want to say that, fine, but it's a little much to take from Spurs fans when they have their own history of giving up leads and they've been sent home by Dirk. Not directed at you personally, but show some ing respect, we've earned it.For the record, the "angry" comment wasn't even directed at you. You have a habit of being defensive (don't we all) but I wouldn't lump you into the category of someone who retorts with, "OMG U INSULTID MY FAV. PLAYUR DIE DIE DIE". Yet.
I personally like talking X's and O's instead of lame trashtalk. There's not really a way for a Mavs fan to win a smacktalking contest with a Spurs fan, based on the disparity in success between the two franchises.
They're completely different players, and Duncan > Dirk. Seems a bit unfair to ask Dirk to play as good post defense as Duncan. I wish Dirk was a better post defender but he's never had the footwork or the lateral speed that Duncan has. For that reason, Dirk will never reach the heights of Duncan. We signed Dampier for that very reason, to avoid sticking Dirk on dominant bigs like Duncan, Amare, Yao, etc and getting into foul trouble. My only point is that Dirk is being held solely responsible for us losing that series, when Avery did a lousy job of coaching and none of his teammates save for Diop played well. I don't mind criticizing Dirk for not playing well, but it was subpar, not awful, and he had plenty of "help" in losing that series.Uh, what? They're both Power Forwards. Duncan did just FINE playing the 5 spot. So what, because Dirk is a shooter, it somehow alleviates him from playing post-defense? Or stopping Bierdins?
If you look at the efficiency ratings, the point differential and such, the Mavs project out at 60 wins, not 67. 60 wins is about what we averaged the past 2 years. Don't you think part of that was the team going all out in full frenzy, partly because they wanted to atone for letting the Finals slip away? We didn't take the regular season off like Miami. I think we lost one game total to a lottery team - an early season loss to the Clippers. 30-something-1 against lottery teams is insane. I believe San Antonio lost 6 or 7 games against lottery teams. And how many of those wins were racked up against teams that were tanking? San Antonio has mastered the art of finding the balance between coasting and going all-out fifth gear so they're humming right along come April. And Golden State had a major talent upgrade and suffered from lots of injuries. It was an upset and it was a bad matchup, but the talent level of the two clubs made it more akin to a second-round matchup, not a typical 1 vs 8 seed matchup. Would we be calling it a historic chokejob if a 53-win team beat a 60-win team? No. And I'm not selling out the Mavs other players - J-Ho is a budding star, Harris has shown promise, Terry is a great outside shooter, Diop and Damp do the dirty work on the low blocks, but how many All-Stars are on this team besides Dirk? One, and that's a stretch at that, mainly because of how deep the forwards are in the West, not because of any flaws to J-Ho's game.You're making excuses for a team that won 67 games in the regular season? Because Golden State was better than as-billed? What, you think they would have made a run at 70 if they were healthy? Come on. You're selling out the entire Mavs team just to defend Dirk.
I've had pf, it's a PAINFUL, PAINFUL injury, but you can play on it. And I didn't have the Spurs trainers tending to my feet 24-7. Duncan put up 32-13 in that series, that's him at his most effective. I'm tired of Spurs fans using that as an excuse. If I wanted to play that game, I could note that Dirk had been playing basketball for a solid 20 months straight, first an NBA season that didn't end until late June 2006, then the German national team, then another regular season. His numbers went down after the All-Star game because he was tired. If we're not allowed to make excuses for his subpar play, at least extend the same tough standards to your own team.As I recall, the Spurs had a pretty damn good regular season when Duncan was hobbled all year with his plantar fasciitis.
Against San Antonio, Terry gives the Spurs fits with his outside shooting (Parker has no size advantage) and Harris with his ability to get to the rim. Against Golden State, they give up so much size and strength to Davis and Richardson. Dampier gives us rebounding and can score on Al Harrington, but he hardly played bc of a torn rotator cuff. Utah has a big, muscular guard to cancel out B-Diddy (Williams) and a low-post beast (Boozer). That's how you beat small ball.Yeah, that team was SO awesome that they were completely dismantled by the Utah Jazz, who might have 6 pubic hairs between them.
I'm saying he had a subpar series playing out of position. I'm not defending his performance in Game 6, I just prefer to take his entire body of work into account before throwing him under the bus. The player your fellow Spurs fans describe could never lead a team past Tim Duncan. Why are you trying so hard to pin the entire Warrior series on him? Did you not notice Nellie running circles around Avery? Did you not notice JET unable to hit water from a boat when Dirk got swarmed with double and triple teams? Did you not notice Devin Harris and Diop spent much of the series in foul trouble and thus their impact was mitigated since they couldn't stay on the court? Did you notice how we got NOTHING from Buckner, Damp (injury) and George? Did you not notice how J-Ho tended to disappear in the second halves of those games? Dirk didn't play up to his standards and I'll criticize him for that. But I refuse to pin it all on him.I've never in my life seen a superstar, let alone an MVP, disappear so rapidly in a series. You can cite his statlines, the bottom line is that Dirk was a non-factor in the series, except for the game where he went for 30+.
*edit* My mistake, his high point total was 23. And you're defending him. Hmmm. 8-10 and 2 in a lose-or-go-home game? That's a horrific way to go out. Why you are trying to so hard to alleviate him of all blame is just staggering. So it's Avery's fault? It's the role player's fault? It's the other All-Star's fault, who you would have been swept without? Just keep making those excuses for Dirk.
Well, gee, Nellie threw out Davis and four 6-7 wings. What team do you think he had in mind when he made the trade for Harrington and Jackson? Who was a 7-footer like Dirk supposed to guard? I wonder how well Duncan would guard a 6-7 wing....hmmm.....Oh I got it! Have you ever seen what happens when Pop puts Bowen on Dirk and Duncan has to "guard" Josh Howard?Duncan's the best post-defender in the league. Dirk couldn't guard a single player on the Warriors.
No, they were both magnificent and cancelled each other out. "Timmy was hurt because of pf" or "Timmy was awesome and never better." Pick a lane please.Duncan was a MONSTER in the 2006 WC2R. He outplayed Dirk for that entire series.
I don't think the Spurs are chokers and the Mavs aren't either. I don't believe in the phenomenon. Can you not give credit to Pat Riley for making adjustments and outcoaching Avery? Can you not give credit to Wade for stepping his game up when his team needed it the most? Did Dirk guard Wade? Is Wade's monster series Dirk's fault? In our Game 6 loss, Dirk put up 29 points and 15 rebounds, it's not all on him for us losing to Miami. He came to play when we were facing elimination but Wade was better. He had a horrible game when facing elimination against the Warriors. It's just blanket statements to judge a guy and not take his entire body of work into account. Yeah, a guy who has a 5-0 record lifetime in deciding games, a guy who went into San Antonio on the road and beat the defending champs in their building, he sucks. It's true he's got a history of not showing up when it matters, but he also has a history of coming through in the clutch as well. Nobody bats a .1000. I just prefer to look at the whole picture.It's equally as impressive that, had they not, they could likely be going for their SIXTH straight le defense, rather than their 4th in 6 years. Note the difference? You can call the Spurs chokers all they want, but they've got it done. Repeatedly (just not in repeat). Enough that they're being referred to by some as a dynasty, and if they defend next year, it will be an absolute lock in 90+% of the sports worlds' eyes. But call a dynasty (or a potential one) chokers all you want, if that's what makes you feel better.
Last edited by Findog; 06-18-2007 at 11:44 PM.
Didn't Dallas win the game? Didn't you guys cough up a 2-0 lead to the Lakers in 2004? Considering Dirk came into your building and beat you in a Game 7, and that you have your own history of giving away leads, you might want to be a little more cir spect. I thought Spurs fans were supposed to be knowledgeable. Too bad that "class" of the Spurs organization doesn't always rub off on some of you.
Dirk hands down.
Wow a 3 point lead??? You know what? The Cavs were winning 2-0 in the first qtr. of game 4 of the Finals and they still lost. They choked!!!
You know the sequence - 3 points, 30 seconds to play. Don't be disengenuous.
What, no Rasho?
right now...... dirk
best European player ever.....
Man,I used to watch every Petrovicīs Game when He was a Real Madrid player.
too bad he died young,He coudīve been greater tham Nash.
I believe He played for the Blazers too,right?
Amenright now...... dirk
best European player ever.....
This Dude helped open the door for the Euro's
R.I.P. Drazen Petrovic
I'm sorry TP, but Dirk is better.
The Spurs did come back from 3-1 and 21 points in that series, I dont think THEM losing is much of a choke.
Yes, the Spurs choked against the Lakers in 2004, but look what they come back and do the next year, win a championship, not lose to an 8 seed. Its all about how you respond.
Well, hopefully we can bounce back like the Spurs. That's what's currently separating the two franchises. A team like San Antonio doesn't usually cough up a big lead.
And thats the great thing about sports, there is always next year. If the Mavs win next year all this 8th seed talk gets thrown out the window, Spurs fans will still bring it up, but Mavs fans will be able to laugh it off knowing it was just a learning experience.
Theres also a bad part. The sad reality is, the Mavs could three-peat in 2008,2009,2010, and you guys still would get no respect around this board because you would still have 1 less than the Spurs. Thats why championships are such a great thing, they last forever, and can forever be used as an arguing point.
"recession, procession. it's all the same thing"Europe... S. America.... same difference.
Yeah, that's my goof. I kept trying to avoid thinking "foreign players" but it just happened eventually.
Congress, progress. Yeah, I know.
Okur over Parker?
Boston Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rest of the teams in the NBA!!Theres also a bad part. The sad reality is, the Mavs could three-peat in 2008,2009,2010, and you guys still would get no respect around this board because you would still have 1 less than the Spurs. Thats why championships are such a great thing, they last forever, and can forever be used as an arguing point.
I think the difference is the Spurs' championships have been recent, whereas the Celtics haven't won in like 20 years.
Thats why championships are such a great thing, they last forever, and can forever be used as an arguing point.
Yeah, you proved my point, I know celtic fans who always bring the # of championships whenever I brag about the Spurs.
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