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  1. #51
    Set for life Budkin's Avatar
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    Amazing film. Practically brought me to tears thinking about all the medical bull my wife and I have had to go through with the insurance companies here. Something needs to be done about the way our system "works" and how ing corrupt it is.

  2. #52
    Luck is Evil Phil Hellmuth's Avatar
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    there are obvious problem's with any socialized or non-socialized health care. What is common ground though is getting awareness and avoiding exploitations that happen in the capitalistic health care system of ours (as the movie points out)


    WHY CAN'T PEOPLE ACCEPT THIS PREMISE!!!

    but no!!!! (sarcasm) the skeptics and stubborn bashers have to argue it (when most haven't seen the movie) and say USA healthcare is fine and our healthcare has top of the line technology and blah blah....

    or even they point out lil details and try to mock or use that as a way to depict the movie as something unworthy. (the 9/11 workers, cuba, etc.)

    so frustrating. some people just argue to argue.

  3. #53
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
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    How has this thread not been moved to the political forum yet?
    Therein lies a big part of the problem- healthcare should not be a political issue.

  4. #54
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    @ socialized healthcare not being a political topic.

  5. #55
    Blow hole! dickface's Avatar
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    Im done. If your gonna act like a child im done.

    Take the thread and shove it.
    LMAO. What a tool.

    "Stop acting like a child....AND SHOVE IT!!!!"

    that's why nobody respects your stupid ass.

  6. #56
    Believe. SAtoDallas's Avatar
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    I would rather be treated in alot of other countries.
    Which one's and why?

  7. #57
    Believe.
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    People who believe the US Health system is fine must not have experienced the bad end of the system.

    Bottom line is, if you have the money you can afford to go to the best hospital in the city and have the best treatments available to you.....you won't have to worry about it being out of network, worrying about the gazillions of bills doctors and radioligists will send to your home, etc.

    My biggest problem with the healthcare system starts with the doctors...many of whom are much too busy treating a high volume of patients daily for people to get the medical attention they deserve. They care about getting a million tests done on, so they can charge the insurance companies, they rarely take the time to sit down and truly discuss your options with you and manage your treatment....that stuff is left up to you to figure out these days.

  8. #58
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
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    My biggest problem with the healthcare system starts with the doctors...many of whom are much too busy treating a high volume of patients daily for people to get the medical attention they deserve.
    Do you want the doctor not to see you at all when you want to be seen or do you want him to squeeze you in- like he does for others when they call. I mean this seriously. If the doctor is seeing too many patients, what is the solution? If your doctor is busy, it is probably because he has so many patients that want to be seen. Most office-type physicians work long hours. Do you have any idea the hours spent after the patients are gone on paperwork- checking on lab results and tests- returning phone calls- approving prescription refills... Do you prefer that the doctor refuse to see sick people who call? Tell them there is an appointment open in 3 weeks?

    They care about getting a million tests done on, so they can charge the insurance companies,
    If you're talking about a doctor who sends you for tests, they get no money for doing that.

  9. #59
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I'll find the link later

    but i've read Moore was told in some ways to GFY by many ground zero workers, and the workers that did go, he reportedly paid them quite handsomely.

    BTW, if Cuba is so fantastic, go live there, and see how wonderfull it is to live there under the great and wonderfull Castro.

    You sound like Ed Asner.
    What do you know about Cuba? I've never been, but I have three friends who have spent significant time in Habana and tell me people are very happy there. They say it's a laid back culture that doesn't revolve around the almighty dollar like this one.

  10. #60
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    Phil muth Sicko bashers are stubborn aren't they. Weak ass rebutalls
    From another board:
    Listen up, all you lovers of freedom. If you dissapprove of Moore's flicks, you are free NOT to watch them. Very simple. To keep your minds occupied there are tractor pulls, NASCAR, and Fox News.

    LMAO. What a tool.

    "Stop acting like a child....AND SHOVE IT!!!!"

    that's why nobody respects your stupid ass.
    T_parks exodus
    I'll find the link later
    If your gonna pontificate on something in here bringing news or supposed "truths" to a subject. I'd like the link to the story that says this bit of news, proving this truth.
    Im done.

  11. #61
    Orange Whip? Orange Whip? Viva Las Espuelas's Avatar
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    Amazing film. Practically brought me to tears thinking about all the medical bull my wife and I have had to go through with the insurance companies here. Something needs to be done about the way our system "works" and how ing corrupt it is.
    I haven't seen this yet. I'll download it. No way in Michael Moore is getting any of my money. Anyway, do they talk about Big Pharma in this? Health insurance is a racket, but Big Pharma is a cog in the whole racket machine. I know I'll rekindle this old debate, but more than half this country is medicated and it's doing more harm than good. I'll be damned if I have to take a damn pill for anything the rest of my life. No thank you. Say what you will, but I'll sidestep this "Kool-Aid" line. <-----------Jamestown reference.

  12. #62
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    I haven't seen this yet. I'll download it. No way in Michael Moore is getting any of my money. Anyway, do they talk about Big Pharma in this? Health insurance is a racket, but Big Pharma is a cog in the whole racket machine. <-----------Jamestown reference.
    Yes. One 80 year old married guy is still working, primarily because of the cost of the pills he and his wife are supposed to take.
    Also as you previously read, the cannister deals that do bring some relief to the layed off Ground Zero gov't employee with (surprise) breathing problems because the EPA lied thru their teeth about 9/11 area air being safe, the Pharms gouge her $120 a can up here, 50 cents or so in evil Cuba. But as to having a whole segment of the movie just on the Pharm pigs, i recall it more like some mentions but not whole segments. Also for the people Moore took to or interviewed in the evil foreign countries to be treated by their evil doctors, most of the ones on pills were signifigantly reduced, ie one chick from 9 prescripts a day, evil foreign doctor cut it back to 4 a day, eliminated the other 5.

    Maybe some others will remember more about the pharm parts. Posters who actually saw it.

  13. #63
    Smell The Wallet Soul_Patch's Avatar
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    This needs a bump since i just finally watched this movie last night.


    This countries corrupt health care in disgusts me.

    Id like to hear people's arguments as to why countries like the UK or France or Canada or so much worse off than we are? Please? Please give me some arguments as to how we are so much better off here than these people?


    Ive done my fair share of traveling. My family lived in Germany for 2 years, and ive traveled around Europe 5 seperate times and visited and lived with real native families in said countries. that on top of hearing testimony in this movie really makes me wonder what is so bad about it? What is bad about free government sponsored healthcare? I get to go sign in, and get seen for free, for anything? I get to have a college education for free?!?!? You mean, the same thing im 45k in debt for right now, others recieved for free? My wife would get 6 months off of work paid in full for maternity leave? You mean the same thing she is only getting 6 weeks off for here, and getting only 60% pay?



    I just dont buy the fear mongering bull ...give me valid arguments please...All of Tparks bull in this thread has no merit at all, never once do you make a valid point...all i see is just, "believe me because AMERICA IS GREAT! damnit and dont question it!!!"

  14. #64
    Veteran AZLouis's Avatar
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    A little note on federally provided healthcare...

    Dorgan: American Indian health care a national embarrassment Email this page Print this page
    Posted: December 07, 2007
    by: Sen. Byron Dorgan


    Recently in North Dakota, a woman from the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation had severe chest pains and extremely high blood pressure. At a local IHS clinic, she was diagnosed as having a heart attack. The staff of the clinic insisted she go by ambulance to the nearest major hospital, 80 miles away. She resisted because she knew she would be billed for the trip and could not afford it, but the clinic insisted.

    When she arrived at the hospital and was being transferred from the ambulance to a gurney, an envelope was found taped to her leg. In the envelope was a letter stating that the IHS lacked funds to pay for the health care she needed because a ''life or limb'' medical condition was not involved. Really? A suspected heart attack is not ''life or limb''? Fortunately, the individual survived. But she later received a bill for approximately $10,000.

    This past August, the U.S. Senate's Indian Affairs Committee held a hearing at the Crow Reservation in Montana. The Crow Tribe's health director told this heartbreaking story about her 5-year-old granddaughter, Ta'Shon Rain Littlelight.

    Between May and August of 2006, Ta'Shon was brought numerous times to an IHS clinic. She was treated for depression. During one clinic visit, Ta'Shon's grandfather pointed out the bulbous condition of her fingertips and toes, believing that this condition indicated a lack of oxygen to the body. The grandfather's concern was dismissed. In June 2006, the grandmother asked Ta'Shon's doctor to eliminate the possibilities of cancer or leukemia. Once again, the concern went unheeded.

    In August 2006, Ta'Shon suffered a collapsed lung. She ended up in Denver, where she was diagnosed with an incurable form of cancer. She died on Sept. 1, 2006. Her grandmother believed that Ta'Shon's last two years of life were spent in ''unmedicated pain'' and wondered whether an earlier diagnosis would have made any difference.

    These stories are repeated every day on Indian reservations across the country. Health care has become a hot issue. But as we work to improve the nation's health care system, we ignore the health care crisis affecting American Indians, the First Americans.

    Why is Native health care not simply an indistinguishable component of the overall health care system? Because our country has an affirmative trust obligation toward American Indians. That obligation is grounded in numerous treaties and, more generally, in the moral responsibility for the negative impact over generations of changing federal policies.

    The great Chief Justice John Marshall, in the 1831 decision of Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, recognized that the United States had a unique trustee relationship toward Indian tribes.

    Statistics highlight the desperate condition of American Indian health care. Compared to the U.S. population as a whole, Natives have a 600 percent higher incidence of tuberculosis, a 189 percent higher incidence of diabetes and a 510 percent higher incidence of alcoholism. Suicides on reservations in the northern Great Plains are 10 times higher than the national average.

    To improve the performance of the United States as trustee for the health care of American Indians, more funding and continuous innovation are needed. For 2005, the per capita federal health expenditure by the IHS was $2,130. By the way, that's about one-half the per capita spending for federal prisoners' health care, and it was far below the estimated per capita benchmarks of Medicare at $6,784 and the Veterans Administration at $4,653. It means we have full-scale ''health care rationing'' for American Indians, and it has to stop. We need to meet our obligations.

    The U.S. Congress is now considering a reauthorization of the Indian Health Care Improvement Act. It has been eight years since the Congress has taken action to improve Indian health care. This new legislation will make some needed improvements such as developing a new type of convenient care clinic and authorizing a new effort to combat the clusters of teen suicides on Indian reservations. But this is just a first step.

    Our nation has a trust responsibility for the health of American Indians, and it's long past time we own up to that responsibility.

    Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., is chairman of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee.
    Link

    I haven't seen Sicko yet, is there any discussion as to the treatment mentioned by Senator Dorgan above?

  15. #65
    Smell The Wallet Soul_Patch's Avatar
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    There is no mention at all in the movie regarding American Indian Healthcare. im not sure i quite understand it either.


    Are you saying they have a version of federally funded healthcare that doesnt work? This doesnt suprise me, as it seems the American Indian population has a lot of verions of federally provided services that are well below how we treat most of our pets.

  16. #66
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    I'll take our health system over a federal government regulated and run one.

  17. #67

  18. #68
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    What do you know about Cuba? I've never been, but I have three friends who have spent significant time in Habana and tell me people are very happy there. They say it's a laid back culture that doesn't revolve around the almighty dollar like this one.
    That whole jailing reporters for having opposing viewpoints to Castro, murdering dissenters.


    Other than those fantastic details, and being a communist country, yeah Cuba is a peachy keen place.

  19. #69
    Banned
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    This needs a bump since i just finally watched this movie last night.


    This countries corrupt health care in disgusts me.

    Id like to hear people's arguments as to why countries like the UK or France or Canada or so much worse off than we are? Please? Please give me some arguments as to how we are so much better off here than these people?


    Ive done my fair share of traveling. My family lived in Germany for 2 years, and ive traveled around Europe 5 seperate times and visited and lived with real native families in said countries. that on top of hearing testimony in this movie really makes me wonder what is so bad about it? What is bad about free government sponsored healthcare? I get to go sign in, and get seen for free, for anything? I get to have a college education for free?!?!? You mean, the same thing im 45k in debt for right now, others recieved for free? My wife would get 6 months off of work paid in full for maternity leave? You mean the same thing she is only getting 6 weeks off for here, and getting only 60% pay?



    I just dont buy the fear mongering bull ...give me valid arguments please...All of Tparks bull in this thread has no merit at all, never once do you make a valid point...all i see is just, "believe me because AMERICA IS GREAT! damnit and dont question it!!!"
    The tradeoff, if you live in Europe, for the free health care and education is the vastly higher income tax rate. The standard of living for the professional classes is lower in Europe than it is in the U.S.

  20. #70
    Smell The Wallet Soul_Patch's Avatar
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    The tradeoff, if you live in Europe, for the free health care and education is the vastly higher income tax rate. The standard of living for the professional classes is lower in Europe than it is in the U.S.

    Im sorry but i think that tradeoff is well worth it. If i can not have to pay a copay every time i go to the doctor's office, or my wife have to pay 45 dollars every couple of weeks for prenatal vitamins perscribed to her...for ing vitamins?!? Or what about having to pay over 3500 dollars out of pocket to the hospital to deliver my baby? I think if i had to pay a few more % in taxes, it would be well worth it, if god forbid, i was diagnosed with cancer or some other life threatening disease.

    The standard of living thing is just a joke...How much damn money do you need for god sake? millions isnt enough? what about billions? trillionos? brazillions?? why does everything have to revolve around how fat your pocketbook is...eventually you should just be satisfied right? enjoy what you have, and stop wanting more? How about enjoy other things in life other than making more money?

    such a gross society we live in today.

    edit: you is meant figuratively.

  21. #71
    Veteran 01Snake's Avatar
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    Do you really think its free? Your paying for it in some way, shape or form.

  22. #72
    Veteran AZLouis's Avatar
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    Are you saying they have a version of federally funded healthcare that doesnt work? This doesnt suprise me, as it seems the American Indian population has a lot of verions of federally provided services that are well below how we treat most of our pets.
    I'm saying that the healthcare for American Indians does not work that great.

    I'm a member of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe and have had the unfortunate cir stance during my life to experience some of the problems. I've also seen them firsthand.

    It's a flawed system. Heck, look at those numbers in Dorgan's article. Prisoners receive more money for healthcare than American Indians.

    I'm fortunate enough now to be able to provide health insurance for my family.

    Imagine being one of those that can't. My tribe claims 85% unemployment. Our income per capita is $13,000 compared to the US average of $20,000.

  23. #73
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    That is a disgrace.

  24. #74
    Banned
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    Im sorry but i think that tradeoff is well worth it. If i can not have to pay a copay every time i go to the doctor's office, or my wife have to pay 45 dollars every couple of weeks for prenatal vitamins perscribed to her...for ing vitamins?!? Or what about having to pay over 3500 dollars out of pocket to the hospital to deliver my baby? I think if i had to pay a few more % in taxes, it would be well worth it, if god forbid, i was diagnosed with cancer or some other life threatening disease.

    The standard of living thing is just a joke...How much damn money do you need for god sake? millions isnt enough? what about billions? trillionos? brazillions?? why does everything have to revolve around how fat your pocketbook is...eventually you should just be satisfied right? enjoy what you have, and stop wanting more? How about enjoy other things in life other than making more money?

    such a gross society we live in today.
    Other developed societies do not have quite such a focus on the acquisition of material wealth as Americans do. We are more willing to sacrifice our free time, our relationships, our health, and our children's future, in order to live in a larger home made of more luxurious materials, and to drive a more prestigious car, and to have fancier furniture and consumer electronics.

  25. #75
    Smell The Wallet Soul_Patch's Avatar
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    I'm saying that the healthcare for American Indians does not work that great.

    I'm a member of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe and have had the unfortunate cir stance during my life to experience some of the problems. I've also seen them firsthand.

    It's a flawed system. Heck, look at those numbers in Dorgan's article. Prisoners receive more money for healthcare than American Indians.

    I'm fortunate enough now to be able to provide health insurance for my family.

    Imagine being one of those that can't. My tribe claims 85% unemployment. Our income per capita is $13,000 compared to the US average of $20,000.

    I dont doubt this at all. I think, as in most government programs designed for Native Americans, it is poorly ran and way underfunded. Unfortunately though that has been the case since the white man ran through and stole up all your land. You guys have always got the shaft unfortunately. i hate it, but its hard make a comparison from that to a national healthcare system, or maybe it isnt...i would like to think the American government would handle a nation wide health care system a bit better than that.

    But look at what they have done for Native American's, and even our own veterans...Why can other countries get it so right, and ours continuously get it so wrong. Our government really sickens me sometimes. Im not saying governments of european countries dont have their fare share of problems, they have plenty. Unemployment is a HUGE problem in a lot of these countries...nothing is perfect, but im tired of all of the grossly rich people in this country trying to instill their beliefs on what is right and wrong into me, when in reality what they think is right, is whatever is making their wallets fatter.

    that.

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