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Butler is taxing the cap but its okay to pay a white redhead 12th man 9 million dollars..
uh okay....
Nothing.
Butler is taxing the cap but its okay to pay a white redhead 12th man 9 million dollars..
uh okay....
The difference between Beno and Butler's salary is $600K. I'd rather do something like Beno and the Raptors second round pick next year for a second round pick in 2011.
Elson didn't do anything against the Nuggets or Suns in the playoffs and they have "quick bigmen". If you want to give Elson charity minutes in the hope that he's some kind of Dirk stopper, just say it
And really, a Dirk stopper needs to be the body style of Stephen Jackson or James Posey. I've never seen a player as tall as Dirk guard him halfway effective. Being shorter, quicker with the ability to rebound is the way to go. Bowen wasn't a good matchup because of the rebounding aspect.
So are you saying Mahinmi > Butler?
My only mistake was being fooled by the first game of the regular season last year. You thought he was the second coming.
As a Knick, Butler averaged 1.7 blocks per 40 minutes. Elson has a career average of 1.6 block per 40 minutes.
What's more likely, Butler continues to lose weight or a 27-year-old Scola learns to rebound?
Either that's a bad sign for Mahinmi's potential or Mahinmi's agents know something the rest of us don't about a spot on the Spurs being available.
And Spurs don't have a player like Stephen Jackson or James Posey.Elson didn't do anything against the Nuggets or Suns in the playoffs and they have "quick bigmen". If you want to give Elson charity minutes in the hope that he's some kind of Dirk stopper, just say it
And really, a Dirk stopper needs to be the body style of Stephen Jackson or James Posey. I've never seen a player as tall as Dirk guard him halfway effective. Being shorter, quicker with the ability to rebound is the way to go. Bowen wasn't a good matchup because of the rebounding aspect.
If Spurs do a trade to get a SF/PF (Nocioni), Elson will be less usefull. For the moment, Spurs haven't done something like that so Elson is still needed.
Apples and oranges, they are so different.
What you and I think are worthless. What count is what Spurs FO thinks.
Reports say that Butler is available and that Spurs wanted to sign Mahinmi this summer : I'm not sure that Butler>Mahinmi is as obvious for them than for you.
Funny how you take Elson career stats and not Butler career stats...
Bottomline is that Butler isn't a good shootblocker.
The "slim" Butler moves better this summer than before but he is still quite slow.
Oberto is pretty quick for a bigman. I don't think he's that much less mobile than Elson. Elson is much faster but not much quicker.And Spurs don't have a player like Stephen Jackson or James Posey.
If Spurs do a trade to get a SF/PF (Nocioni
I haven't seen Mahinmi enough to know which one is better. That's another reason why it sucks that Mahinmi got hurt. We could have seen them side by side and pretty easily tell which one was the keeper.
Okay, career stats time:
Funny how you take Elson career stats and not Butler career stats...
Bottomline is that Butler isn't a good shootblocker.
Elson 1.6 blocks per 40 minutes
Butler 1.5 blocks per 40 minutes
Care to edit your posts?
Work in progress.
You guys that want to throw Elson in the garbage need to remember that we didn't have to match up with Dirk this last year like we probably will this coming year.
Elson is the only guy we have that can cause Dirk some problems.
He's pretty much useless besides guarding Dirk, but just being able to do that one thing could mean the difference in winning a Championship or not.
Oberto has done a good job on Dirk But Spurs need to have a second bigman to put on Dirk. Oberto can't defend 40mpg on Dirk.
1.6>1.5
I don't think Butler will lose more weight : he follows a diet for almost one year.
What gives you the impression he can guard Dirk? Because he's tall? He pretty much hasn't shown he can guard anyone in the league. Most of the time he's just standing in the wrong place on D or missing a rotation.
Miami and Golden State have both shown how to guard Dirk. You don't put a big man on him. How often didn't you see Zo or Biedrins on Dirk?
You have to put players like Posey, Haslem, SJax, Barnes or Pietrus on him. Basically just smaller players who are as quick and have the muscle to keep him out of the paint and off the boards. Dirk is death if you put a tall player or a player who can't keep him from getting offensive rebounds on him.
Somehow turning Barry into Posey would be ideal right about now.
Bring back Malik!!!
Amir Johnson, anyone? I know that Marcus Williams is a rookie and he still has to get accustomed to the NBA, but he's flat out sucking right now. Undrafted free agents are doing better than him right now.
Ah yes, the original Dirk stopper
What a ing stupid ass trade. 2nd round pick and trade exception? that! The Spurs are ing idiots doing a trade like that. Might as well deal Scola for Duhon while they are at it. Keep him as the backup center and deal or cut Elson. Big ing deal having to pay the tax this year.
Being almost at Elson's level as a shotblocker is pretty bad, because Elson himself is a poor shot-blocker for someone with his attributes. At least Oberto's excuse is that he can't jump, Elson doesn't have one. I guess Butler's might be that he's too overweight to jump.
Butler's two games of the most minutes in garbage throwaways at the end of the season, he played 28 minutes in each game and had zero blocks total.
Butler's last 25 games as a Knick, when he was getting his best most consistant minutes, he averaged 16 minutes a game at .44 blocks per.
Malik was a great piece and a great guy -- I miss him. It's too bad that they overpaid him and he imploded.
Honestly he's wide enough to bang dirk and a great rebounder.
And I don't see Elson as a Dirk stopper, he is just (with Oberto) the less worst answer Spurs have against Dirk. If Spurs get a SF/PF this summer, I would have nothing against dumping Elson somewhere and try another player as backup C (Butler or someone else).
Since the Spurs have Duncan, Oberto, Elson, Bonner, Horry back for next year---- How can Butler get any playing time? One of the 6 bigs has to be on the IR, so unless you put Horry there it will be Butler. Even if Horry goes on IR for back-to-backs, that will not be much playing time for Butler, since Bonner will get more minutes with Horry being out of the game.
Then you throw Splitter into the mix in 2009 and I don't see where Butler fits in.
Go Cholo! Direct hit! Butler is not a "practice player" If all you do for 8 months is practice---What are you? This kid is not the second coming of Moses Malone! Watch him-- he can't elevate. He will do that again next season. Elson vs Butler---give me a break. If Fancisco is an antelope on the court then Butler is a Rhino. Let's move on!
If Butler +30-40 pounds could block as much as Elson, is it unreasonable to think he could become a good shot blocker?
That's two games after 80 games of sitting at the end of the bench. Zo had zero blocks in two out of his four playoff games. Is he not a shotblocker either?
Damn, nice find ... you just proved Butler is a nice shot blocker. To start the 2005-06 season, Butler averaged 2.4 blocks per 40 minutes in games played in November, December, January and February. That was back when Larry Brown was actually trying to win before the wheels fell off.
So a fat yet motivated Jackie Butler blocks shots at a better rate than Rasho Nesterovic? That's good news because a skinnier Butler in a defense that highlights shot blocking could really be a nice shot blocker.
He's fast and long. To guard Dirk, you can't playing Spurs prototypical defense where the big is relied upon to make quick defensive rotations and protect the basket. You have to have a long player that can stick with Dirk and match his heighth to cause him problems.
Elson can do that and did it fairly well when he was playing against Dirk in the regular season.
Also, don't forget that Oberto looked like absolute dog in his first season with the Spurs and then things clicked this year. Elson showed some flashes during the year, but looked lost most of the time on the defensive end because he was learning the system. I'm not ready to give up on Elson although I know there are a bunch of haters on here.
I just remember Oberto being more useless than Dwayne Schintzus last year.
Actually the most effective players in the league that have guarded Dirk have been shorter, strong players that can rebound (i.e. Haslem).
And Elson guarded Dirk for about 10 minutes total, if that, during the regular season.
Both White and Butler are projects. If either was so special, they would have gotten more than the 137 and 103 minutes that they respectively played during the whole regular season.
Well, we don't have that right now and I don't see anybody reasonable that we have a chance of getting that fits that mold. As somebody else said above, a long fast player is the next best option although it might not be ideal.
I'm still pissed we didn't keep/try to get SJAX back.
Being better than Elson I don't think qualifies as good. Fair, maybe. Adequate, I suppose.
Nice way to twist. It's funny that those last two games are great when used to boost Butler, to talk about how well he played and this and that, but they are terrible to look at when it reflects poorly upon him. BTW, Scola had 4 blocks in two games against Team USA in the WC and Olympic level . . . but he's a bad shotblocker and Butler's good?That's two games after 80 games of sitting at the end of the bench. Zo had zero blocks in two out of his four playoff games. Is he not a shotblocker either?
Wait . . . Butler's fat? I swear I heard all last season up until training camp from the experts that he wasn't fat at all, he was just big bodied.So a fat yet motivated Jackie Butler blocks shots at a better rate than Rasho Nesterovic? That's good news because a skinnier Butler in a defense that highlights shot blocking could really be a nice shot blocker.
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