10,000 B.c.

[peewee's lovechild]

Most of those countries aren't Christian.

Where is Hegamboa? LMAO

You are right, most of those aren't christian nations.
But, they also believe in a given god.
Christian or not, all these countries are in the same boat.

That is, worshipping and killing themselves for a god that apparently doesn't care.

[peewee's lovechild]

You contradicted yourself. How am I supposed to believe you?


Phil Graham, John Hagee, Tammy Fay, etc. are the exception to the rule. Coming from a person considering ministry instead of getting a license in a professional field, I seriously am asking you to look up the salary of an average Evangelical pastor. Not a mega-church, on tv preaching every day, on tour, writing books, preacher. I'm talking, going to hospitals to be with members of their congregation, up at the middle of the night answering pastoral calls and being at their home church every day trying to find the budget to get air conditioning for their church. Look into it.

First of all, how is that staement a contradiction??

Second, I thought you were going to "turn the other cheek" as you posted before??

Too hard for you to do, isn't it??
You feel this insatiable need to defend god, don't you?

Oh, well.

[1369]

peewee=boutons?

[peewee's lovechild]

peewee=boutons?

The only boutons I know about are the ones on my shirts . . . oh, , that's buttons.

No, don't know what a boutons is.

My bad.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Yea, I'm sure some in the ministry are honest and have a modest living. But, that's a very small percentage. The majority have a lust for money that is unmatchable.

I don't argue religion, I don't see the point. But this made gave me a good laugh. Pastors and Ministers get in their line of work because of their lust for money.

[peewee's lovechild]

I don't argue religion, I don't see the point. But this made gave me a good laugh. Pastors and Ministers get in their line of work because of their lust for money.

Do you even know how much these ers get paid???

I'm not talking about the ultra low level guys.
Find out for yourself.

Oh yea, and all that great art that we have in the world, all the great sculptures, all the great churches and basilicas . . . . all those were paid mostly through the patronage of the church.

They continue to build them, spending millions.

Meanwhile, they get a big fat check for their troubles.

Why does god need a big ass fancy church anyway??
What's the point to that?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Do you even know how much these ers get paid???

Yeah, my Grandpa was a Lutheran Pastor for over 40 years, he didn't make jack .

[peewee's lovechild]

Yeah, my Grandpa was a Lutheran Pastor for over 40 years, he didn't make jack .

He should've joined Pat Robertson's group. He would've been a millionare.

I used to manage a bank a few years ago.
So, I know what I'm talking about when I say they get paid a loads.
We're talking over $230,000 a year.

There was this catholic priest who had over $3,000,000 in his bank account.

Your grandfather was a good man but he was an exception, not the rule.

[atxrocker]

i hope joel osteen dies a slow, painful death for being such a piece of . just thought this comment would be appropriate in this here thread.

[peewee's lovechild]

i hope joel osteen dies a slow, painful death for being such a piece of . just thought this comment would be appropriate in this here thread.

It is.

I hope so too.

Maybe I should get Midge to pray cancer on him.
Colon cancer would be appropriate.

[Extra Stout]

The median salary for a senior pastor in the United States is around $60,000.

[ashbeeigh]

Do you even know how much these ers get paid???

I'm not talking about the ultra low level guys.
Find out for yourself.

Oh yea, and all that great art that we have in the world, all the great sculptures, all the great churches and basilicas . . . . all those were paid mostly through the patronage of the church.

They continue to build them, spending millions.

Meanwhile, they get a big fat check for their troubles.

Why does god need a big ass fancy church anyway??
What's the point to that?

Have you been to a church service in more than 10 years? Mainstream pastors/ministers/priests etc. get paid through their conferences/dioceses whatever its called in their religion. Those churches you named, such as Saint Paul's are grand because of their history. Of course they were built through patronage of the church. Those patronages are rich! In San Antonio I go to University United Methodist Church. Have you seen that sucker? It's so huge they're building across the street because of their patronage and growth (which is the whole point of a church! Growth and ministry!)! That's because the congregation is rich! I don't like it, but that's just how it works. The long and short of having fancy churches is to keep up with Joneses. That's all it is. If one church has something the other has to have it.

The pastor doesn't get paid anymore or any less because the majority of his congregation makes more than 200,000 a year. It's all figured out through the Southwest Conference. There's nothing individual about it. He gets paid the same as someone who works in Poteet would. You're just so wrong about the money. Dead wrong.

And troubles? Yet again, seriously? Look into a Masters of Divinity program and see how much "trouble" it really is.

[Extra Stout]

If we include only large churches in urban/suburban areas, then the median is about $90,000.

[peewee's lovechild]

Have you been to a church service in more than 10 years? Mainstream pastors/ministers/priests etc. get paid through their conferences/dioceses whatever its called in their religion. Those churches you named, such as Saint Paul's are grand because of their history. Of course they were built through patronage of the church. Those patronages are rich! In San Antonio I go to University United Methodist Church. Have you seen that sucker? It's so huge they're building across the street because of their patronage and growth (which is the whole point of a church! Growth and ministry!)! That's because the congregation is rich! I don't like it, but that's just how it works. The long and short of having fancy churches is to keep up with Joneses. That's all it is. If one church has something the other has to have it.

The pastor doesn't get paid anymore or any less because the majority of his congregation makes more than 200,000 a year. It's all figured out through the Southwest Conference. There's nothing individual about it. He gets paid the same as someone who works in Poteet would. You're just so wrong about the money. Dead wrong.

And troubles? Yet again, seriously? Look into a Masters of Divinity program and see how much "trouble" it really is.

I seem to remember Jesus getting pissed at the people trying to make money off of other people going to visit the temple. Remember? He overturned tables owned by merchants. Jesus even critized and condemned the religious heads of the time (saducees, pharasies, scribes, etc.) for their lust of money and material things.

Making churches grand to "keep up with the Joneses" seems to be contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Funny, I don't remember Jesus asking for a he in the scriptures. As a matter of fact, Jesus urged all his followers to abandon all Earthly possessions. Didn't you quote me the scripture saying just that?

Truth is, grand churches and all sorts of works of art were built and paid for by the leading churches at the time as a show of wealth. If you don't believe it . . . I suggest you pick up a history book or two.

Two more things:

1. As I mentioned before, I used to be a Bank Manager so I KNOW what I'm talking about when I say they make a lot of money. Believe it or not, they (all denominations) make quite a bit of money.

2. My father was, still is, a minister when I was a kid. So, I'm well versed in the scripture. I just made the choice to stop believing in that fantasy when I reached the age of reason.

[peewee's lovechild]

Oh, and Asheeigh, "for their troubles" is a sarcastic figure of speech.

I'm sorry I didn't clarify that for you.

I'll keep it in mind to knock it down a couple of intellectuall levels for you.

P.S. You keep thinking I'm attacking your personal church, far from it. I'm arguing against Christianity as a whole. I don't know why you feel you have to defend your particular denomination. I swear, if god really is as all powerful as you believe he is . . . he doesn't need you to speak up for him.

Christianity as a whole makes millions upon millions, if not billions, by fleecing their flock. If you deny that there is plenty of $$$$$ to be made through religion, then you really are delusional and shouldn't continue arguing this point.

[peewee's lovechild]

Archdioses pays $660 million to abouse victims:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070715/D8QD519G1.html

I wonder where they got all that money, hmmmmmm . . . .

[TheSanityAnnex]

Archdioses pays $660 million to abouse victims:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070715/D8QD519G1.html

I wonder where they got all that money, hmmmmmm . . . .

Who cares where the money came from, its being donated to a good cause. Those poor boys had their asses reamed.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Dude, you're dellusional. You give "credit to God" who you "know guided" you "to the right doctors with the knowledge" to help you overcome your illness???

That's a bull cop-out.
Keep in mind this: God wasn't the one who oversaw you back to health. It wasn't a winged angel. It wasn't Jesus in all his glory in the hospital with you.

Doctors. Human beings. Simple human beings that used the many, many years of research and expirementation. Simple human beings that used THEIR knowledge to help bring you back to health. And, you on them bringing you back from near death to give thanks to god????

It's a good thing that god likes you, and that he was there for you. Because, I'll tell you this: He doesn't like people in the Sudan, Ethiopia, Rawanda, Somalia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mozambique, India, Bangladesh, Tibet, Iraq, Afganistan, Yemen, Iran, Sri Lanka, Mongolia, and Malaysia just to name a few.

All these countries are suffering. People die every day. Children die at a rate of 5 every half hour. All these countries are lacking in modern medical care. All these countries are lacking scientists to lead the way. All these countries turn to their gods, and all their gods have cast a blind eye.

But, it's a good thing your god has a particular liking to Americans. It's a lucky break for you. I'm glad you can believe that bull . Good for you.

But, don't you for one second try to lecture me and tell me that deep down inside I believe in your pretentious, backward beliefs. I've never presumed to know what you believe. I'm at odds with what you believe, but I've never presumed to tell you what you believe.

you!!
I don't believe in your childish, selfish, vindictive god.

I never will.

Boutons, I wasn't really trying to convert you, I just wanted to get a rise out of you for my own personal enjoyment. It was fun, so thanks.

In reality I'm not what you'd call religious. I like to think of myself as spiritual. I have a hard time with organized religion because it too often tries to force a set of beliefs on people and make everyone choose sides.

I really do believe in a higher power, a collective mind, God. I've seen too many things that have convinced me of that. I believe we're spiritually eternal, but I also I totally understand why people can't grasp that concept.

But I think it's a copout to discount the existence of a higher power because there is suffering in the world. Why does the existence of God mean that no one should age, suffer, get sick, or die a physical death? Your parents raised you, and sometime in your childhood I'm sure you got sick and suffered in some way that your mom and dad could have prevented. Your parents, your creators, were real even though they couldn't take away all your suffering. Overcoming obstacles helps us to achieve maturity in this life. Perhaps, on a grander scale, life, or lives on earth is just a means to help us achieve spiritual maturity. I'm not sure. But if you believe that life is just this quick physical lifetime, this blip in eternity, then it really would suck for all those people that have had a miserable life. I don't believe this is all there is. I've seen too many things that fall outside the lines of our current scientific understanding of things to believe that.

But if you're happy with that acceptance, then more power to you my friend.

[TheZackAttack!]

Christians don't believe the world is 6000 years old? the time and date is never given in Genesis. Adam never had a watch, from what I've read.

Ha, you just got served Peewee!

[Flo-Rida]

Dude, you're dellusional. You give "credit to God" who you "know guided" you "to the right doctors with the knowledge" to help you overcome your illness???

That's a bull cop-out.
Keep in mind this: God wasn't the one who oversaw you back to health. It wasn't a winged angel. It wasn't Jesus in all his glory in the hospital with you.

Doctors. Human beings. Simple human beings that used the many, many years of research and expirementation. Simple human beings that used THEIR knowledge to help bring you back to health. And, you on them bringing you back from near death to give thanks to god????

It's a good thing that god likes you, and that he was there for you. Because, I'll tell you this: He doesn't like people in the Sudan, Ethiopia, Rawanda, Somalia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mozambique, India, Bangladesh, Tibet, Iraq, Afganistan, Yemen, Iran, Sri Lanka, Mongolia, and Malaysia just to name a few.

All these countries are suffering. People die every day. Children die at a rate of 5 every half hour. All these countries are lacking in modern medical care. All these countries are lacking scientists to lead the way. All these countries turn to their gods, and all their gods have cast a blind eye.

But, it's a good thing your god has a particular liking to Americans. It's a lucky break for you. I'm glad you can believe that bull . Good for you.

But, don't you for one second try to lecture me and tell me that deep down inside I believe in your pretentious, backward beliefs. I've never presumed to know what you believe. I'm at odds with what you believe, but I've never presumed to tell you what you believe.

you!!
I don't believe in your childish, selfish, vindictive god.

I never will.

My friend i will be praying for u because you need it

[peewee's lovechild]

Ha, you just got served Peewee!

Served?

Right.

Neither you nor inconvertible know anything on this subject.

Christians believe that you can trace man's lineage all the way back to Adam (you know, the first male), therefore comming up with the number of years since man was first created.

Genisis never gives a number.
The bible never gives a number.
But, this is what Christians believe in nonetheless.

It is how they counter the theory of evolution.

Zack, make sure you know what you are talking about before you post.

[peewee's lovechild]

Boutons, I wasn't really trying to convert you, I just wanted to get a rise out of you for my own personal enjoyment. It was fun, so thanks.

In reality I'm not what you'd call religious. I like to think of myself as spiritual. I have a hard time with organized religion because it too often tries to force a set of beliefs on people and make everyone choose sides.

I really do believe in a higher power, a collective mind, God. I've seen too many things that have convinced me of that. I believe we're spiritually eternal, but I also I totally understand why people can't grasp that concept.

I can agree with that.
And, I respect that.

But I think it's a copout to discount the existence of a higher power because there is suffering in the world. Why does the existence of God mean that no one should age, suffer, get sick, or die a physical death? Your parents raised you, and sometime in your childhood I'm sure you got sick and suffered in some way that your mom and dad could have prevented. Your parents, your creators, were real even though they couldn't take away all your suffering. Overcoming obstacles helps us to achieve maturity in this life. Perhaps, on a grander scale, life, or lives on earth is just a means to help us achieve spiritual maturity. I'm not sure. But if you believe that life is just this quick physical lifetime, this blip in eternity, then it really would suck for all those people that have had a miserable life. I don't believe this is all there is. I've seen too many things that fall outside the lines of our current scientific understanding of things to believe that.

But if you're happy with that acceptance, then more power to you my friend.

I've never said that I don't believe in some kind of higher power. What I did say was that I don't believe in "God", that being the god that christians, muslims, and jews.

The reason I used the suffering argument is that the god that these three religions pray to is SUPPOSED to be a benevolent god. A god that is SUPPOSED to so loving and attentive, that he/she/it would relieve people of their pain and suffering. But, that god doesn't do that. That's why I pointed it out. And, each of the religions I mentioned believes that "god" is exlusive to them.

I agree with what you said. But, I never said that I don't believe in something else. I just don't believe in the human concept/construct of god.

I think we have more in common than you think.

[peewee's lovechild]

My friend i will be praying for u because you need it

Go ahead, there's no one listening.

[O-Factor]

Dude, you really don't know . You've been trying and trying and trying to get a rise out of Christians but YOU in all your ignorance will never change someone's faith on here. Get used to that. You want to be a atheist, go right ahead, but don't try and trample on peoples beliefs. You claim you know all about religion and christianity but you are just a little man with no depth in your soul or mind. Basically you are just trolling. It says alot about your character. You are just trying to pick on people of faith, people who have overcome obstacles and illnesses in their life because it gets you off. What a sick ...

[peewee's lovechild]

Dude, you really don't know . You've been trying and trying and trying to get a rise out of Christians but YOU in all your ignorance will never change someone's faith on here. Get used to that. You want to be a atheist, go right ahead, but don't try and trample on peoples beliefs. You claim you know all about religion and christianity but you are just a little man with no depth in your soul or mind. Basically you are just trolling. It says alot about your character. You are just trying to pick on people of faith, people who have overcome obstacles and illnesses in their life because it gets you off. What a sick ...

And yet, you've provided no facts whatsoever about how I "don't know ". You ranted and said abo ely nothing at all. And, how can I be trolling if I started both threads that dealt with "god".

If I'm "just a little man with no depth in my soul or mind", then call me out on it. Give some examples. Don't just flap the flesh that covers that orifice in your face.

You said abolutely nothing of substance.
Nothing at all.