Who Is Quicker?

[whottt]

Do you read what I post? One of the main reasons why I didn't like the Scola part was because the financial part didn't make sense. You don't salary dump a guy making less than half the MLE with one year on his contract. That didn't make financial sense.

You save way more money by salary dumping Barry. You save as much money salary dumping Beno and moving Barry to the third PG.

And are you sure they aren't going to move Barry?

I can live with the Spurs doing a smart financial trade ... but this wasn't a smart financial trade. The Spurs did the trade because of money, no doubt ... but there were better ways of doing so.

I think they wanted Butler's contract off the books for next season as well. And perhaps they figured it was better to move an unproven PF and project big to a team that couldn't get out of the first round than to give the Cavs a proven NBA guard that has played at near all star level at point in his career.

You don't like Bonner. You are on record. And I won't let you forget that fact down the line.

I like his hustle...I'm just not sold on his shot.

Now you are just making things up. I remember Rasho hitting one meaningful clutch shot in his NBA career and that was against the Kings in the playoffs in his last year here. Other than that, he was rarely on the court in crunch time.

What games are you talking about?

*queue whottt not directly answering the question*

I don't specifially remember the games...but when he was on the court and he shot them...he usually did hit them. He just didn't shoot them that much. And furthermore...Rasho had a habit of winning mano a mano matches ups against ballin' guards when you wouldn't think he could do it...

Rasho wasn't a choker. He didn't care enough to choke. Choking happens when you too much pressure on yourself and can't handle it...putting too much pressure on himself was not Rasho's problem.

You could have saved yourself a lot of disappointment by just listening to timvp when he said the Rasho signing was a horrible one. I was adamantly against the signing.

Hey...I wanted Oberto...I knew he wasn't going to have killer instinct. And I knew people would hate him because he didn't. That said...it's bad talent evaluation to say Rasho doesn't have talent...because he does, as is obvious. Rasho was typical of Pop trying to turn a non-agressive player into an agressive one...that's one of his biggest faults as a coach. Agression is a naturally occuring instinct IMO...it can't be instilled on a permanent basis. Guys either burn to win, or they don't...

And, even though Rasho is a nice guy and it was good to see him win a ring, I was right again. He was a horrible signing that the Spurs almost immediately regretted.

Eh...losing Jack and Kerr hurt us more than anything...

And what makes you think Rasho is a nice guy? The fact that's he's quiet?

When Scola plays well and the Rockets are improved, you'll already be owned. Don't worry.

Lame weak...the Rockets stand to be improved anyway, just by the Adelman hiring and having Bonzi and Tmac on the court at the same time,...that's not going out on any kind of a limb at all. I want to know your reasoning why they wouldn't be improved even without Scola...there's no reason they shouldn't be.

[timvp]

And are you sure they aren't going to move Barry?

How are they going to salary dump him? What assets do they have to do so?

I think they wanted Butler's contract off the books for next season as well. And perhaps they figured it was better to move an unproven PF and project big to a team that couldn't get out of the first round than to give the Cavs a proven NBA guard that has played at near all star level at point in his career.

Please don't tell me that last line was regarding Beno.

Please.

I like his hustle...I'm just not sold on his shot.

His shot is his best asset. You mean his clutchness? That is yet to be determined.

I don't specifially remember the games

Saw that one coming a mile away.

...but when he was on the court and he shot them...he usually did hit them. He just didn't shoot them that much.

Because he was almost never on the court in clutch situations.

Rasho wasn't a choker. He didn't care enough to choke. Choking happens when you too much pressure on yourself and can't handle it...putting too much pressure on himself was not Rasho's problem.

Rasho wasn't a choker because Pop never trusted him enough to even be in the situation to choke.

Hey...I wanted Oberto...I knew he wasn't going to have killer instinct. And I knew people would hate him because he didn't. That said...it's bad talent evaluation to say Rasho doesn't have talent...because he does, as is obvious. Rasho was typical of Pop trying to turn a non-agressive player into an agressive one...that's one of his biggest faults as a coach. Agression is a naturally occuring instinct IMO...it can't be instilled on a permanent basis. Guys either burn to win, or they don't...

Link to where I said Rasho doesn't have talent? Of course he does. I just said that he had no aggression, wasn't a good fit and that his contract was way too much.

I was right on all three counts.

Eh...losing Jack and Kerr hurt us more than anything...

What does that have to do with Rasho? And losing a 38-year-old Kerr didn't hurt anything.

My point was the Spurs regretted Rasho almost instantly .... and they did as they tried to trade him to Dallas for Tariq Abdul-Wahad.

And what makes you think Rasho is a nice guy? The fact that's he's quiet?

The fact that I've met him.

Lame weak...the Rockets stand to be improved anyway, just by the Adelman hiring and having Bonzi and Tmac on the court at the same time,...that's not going out on any kind of a limb at all. I want to know your reasoning why they wouldn't be improved even without Scola...there's no reason they shouldn't be.

Back tracking already? Remember that your take is that Scola is a soft b1tch who will make the Rockets worse and the Spurs traded him to Houston because they wanted to play against him as much as possible?

I guess not.

[whottt]

How are they going to salary dump him? What assets do they have to do so?

He's the asset...expiring contract...4th best shooter in the NBA last year, lead the NBA in true shooting PCT, playoff experienced player.

Please don't tell me that last line was regarding Beno.

Are you drunk again?

I was referring to the 3 way involving Bibby.

Rasho wasn't a choker because Pop never trusted him enough to even be in the situation to choke.

Actually...he wasn't a choker in Minnesota either...he just couldn't bang with Shaq.

What does that have to do with Rasho? And losing a 38-year-old Kerr didn't hurt anything.

My point was the Spurs regretted Rasho almost instantly .... and they did as they tried to trade him to Dallas for Tariq Abdul-Wahad.

See the bigger game...Phil Jackson wouldn't have doubled off of Kerr in 04.
It matters. Not that I expect an AJ fan to get that.

Back tracking already? Remember that your take is that Scola is a soft b1tch who will make the Rockets worse and the Spurs traded him to Houston because they wanted to play against him as much as possible?

I guess not.

You're drunk...right?

[SAGambler]

Probably a little quicker "first step" than Manu, but not Tony.

However, Manu uses that "fake first step" a lot to draw fouls or step back for an open 3 pointer. Manu is simply craftier.

And end to end no doubt Tony is quicker including the famous "first step"

[Clutch20]

Manu exploded to catch up with Leandor Barbosa and knock the ball out of his hands when Leandro was already running full speed like a bat out of . That's all starts with a very quick first step.
To me, Tony and Manu are tied but, Tony's speed curve doesn't peak like Manu's, it's a gentler gradient for the 48 minutes.
Manu's peaks high midways thru game, then has it's ups and downs towards the end.

[E20]

Consider these two plays:

Spurs vs Warriors:
Manu was being guarded by JRich and Manu just ing blew right past him and all you could see was the anguish on JRich's face yelling HELP and Adonal Foyle getting dunked on. You couldn't even see Manu he was so fast.
**Also see Manu breaking Cory Maggette for the up and under, to be honest I dont' even know what to call that kind of layup, it wasn't even an up and under.

Spurs vs Lakers
Tony blurred passed Kobe, making Kobe back pedal and nearly fall on his ass, then he tear dropped over Shaq.

That's all the proof and evidence you need.

Parker and Manu's quickness as babies >>>> Spanny in his prime.

[timvp]

He's the asset...expiring contract...4th best shooter in the NBA last year, lead the NBA in true shooting PCT, playoff experienced player.

You must not understand NBA trades at all. You think you can trade Barry for cap space straight up? That might top your "V Span is the human roadrunner" take as being your worst take of the week.

Check out what the Suns had to give up to salary dump Kurt Thomas. That's the kind of trade they'll have to do to dump Barry.

Welcome to the real world. No team is going to absorb Barry's salary because of some stupid regular season shooting stats

Are you drunk again?

I was referring to the 3 way involving Bibby.

The drunk card? What happened, couldn't find your grammar card?

With your takes being so bad in that post it was hard to follow along. It'd be nice if you actually named players when you are pulling them out of left field.

Actually...he wasn't a choker in Minnesota either...he just couldn't bang with Shaq.

I'm still waiting for you to give me examples of Rasho being clutch. I knew you'd dance around that question and you did.

See the bigger game...Phil Jackson wouldn't have doubled off of Kerr in 04.
It matters. Not that I expect an AJ fan to get that.

Ah yes, Steve Kerr. The most overrated player in Spurs history. He hits two shots and his four years of suckness is forgotten.

You're drunk...right?

Drunk smack to a guy who last drank after the Spurs won the championship. More greatness from whottt.

[E20]

I'll post the links if nobody believes me.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DZLGMf0TEg4 Manu's over JRich it's at 2:46 on the timer(Also in the begining you see Rasho dunk)

For Parker:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5djSSA7O6EM around 52 seconds
(The begining of the song sounds like the guy is saying: 'Suck a ', really fast. )

And these players Manu and Tony are blowing past away aren't "slow".

[whottt]

:

Drunk smack to a guy who last drank after the Spurs won the championship. More greatness from whottt.

My bad...crack then?


Gotta be a good reason for your d-level takes...

You're better than this...

[timvp]

Why don't you explain to us how the Spurs can dump Barry's salary for nothing?

Thanks.

[Horry For 3!]

Spanoulis sucks and he is not quicker.

[whottt]

I just don't get the sudden rash of stretches from TimVP.

You've had some impressive takes...particularly the 10-10 start and calling the Mercer and Heal waivings...not to mention the fact that you have a habit of likeing players the Spurs are interested in...in the case of Bonner and Vassilis.

At the same time...I haven't exactly seen some of those takes as banner moments in Spurs Championship history..I think that's a legitimate point there.


Bonner didn't do squat in the post season.
You don't even like Vassilis any more.

10-10 was the perfectly bad start...to an eventual playoff disappointment...ditto Heal and Mercer.


And the funiest thing about all of this is that if I go back far enough I can find you questioning Scola's NBA viability right alongside myself.

And furthermore....nobody ever nails the Spurs offseason moves to perfection...they always have a trick or two up their sleeves that no one has thought of.


And lastly...I think you under-rate Barry attractiveness to other teams...in some FO somewhere there is going to be a stathead efficiency whiz that sees the fact that Barry lead the NBA in true shooting PCT and the Spurs in just about every shooting category(and has lead the Spurs in a couple of them every season on the team).


Barry's not garbage...as evidenced by the fact that he beat the board dreamboy out for most of last season...and no matter how hard Pop has tried...he's never been able to condemn Barry permanently to the doghouse...and that's notable..that is not par for Pop's course with bad defensive players...see Kerr, Steve. And Barry's ass spent less time on the bench than your golden boy Bonner...refute that.


Have a nice day

[timvp]

Was that the long way of admitting you have no clue how salary dump trades work? I'll give you a hint ... Kurt Thomas isn't worthless either. It's just very hard to salary dump a player nowadays. Especially one with the contract the size of Barry's.

Now that you've been owned, do you still believe there is a team out there that will take Barry and just absorb his contract just because they like him as a player?

Yes or No.

[whottt]

Yes or No.

Yes...

[ShoogarBear]

whottt hasn't been in this kind of top-flight form since Coyote v. Robinson.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

whottt had an interesting take

In case you were wondering, that's the exact point at which you lost me.

[timvp]

Yes...

So the Suns were forced to give up Kurt Thomas and two first rounders just to dump Thomas' salary, yet the Spurs will find a team that will just absorb Barry's contract without asking for any compensation in doing so besides the greatness that is Brent Barry?

Astonishingly bad take.

[Bruno]

Rasho Nesterovic is quicker than both Manu and Parker.
He is too 7' high : he would be a perfect long SF.

Check out that crazy foot speed :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h3MG...elated&search=

[whottt]

So the Suns were forced to give up Kurt Thomas and two first rounders just to dump Thomas' salary, yet the Spurs will find a team that will just absorb Barry's contract without asking for any compensation in doing so besides the greatness that is Brent Barry?

The question you should be asking yourself...is if Scola is so good how come the Sonics weren't after him.

Mr. The Sonics have tons of bigmen and wouldn't be interested in another.


Aside from that...just because the Suns made a bad deal doesn't mean every team is going too...

And furthermore...in hinsight, Scola seems a small price to pay to dump salary then, compared to the price the Suns just paid...

Totally contradicting your stance on the Spurs trading of Scola.

Astonishingly bad take.

We shall see...keep in mind, it's a long season.

We almost got JR Smith once upon a time for Barry...and he's been a better player since then than he was before then, statistically speaking.

Barry has a skill, and I don't care how much want to pretend that he doesn't...he does, it's a skill that comes in handy and aids the interior games of teams.

I could see any team being willing to take Barry if they need shooting...which he is very good at. Especially if they are in the playoff hunt and lack it.


Barry's value, will be determined by the laws of supply and demand...the same as it is for all players.

And Kurt Thomas aint all that...if he was, the Suns wouldn't be paying such a high price to get rid of him.

Then again....Kerr just could just be a ty GM. He is new at it you know...


Anyway...I'll let you get back to jocking the Suns cutting payroll while condemning your own team for it.

[whottt]

Rasho Nesterovic is quicker than both Manu and Parker.
He is too 7' high : he would be a perfect long SF.

Check out that crazy foot speed :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h3MG...elated&search=

So much unjustified hate for Rasho......obeserve Rasho owning timvp's prize pick up from last offseason(who incidentally, didn't get off the bench much)...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7cYYkinvxo


I wish I could find the clip of Rasho showing how his foot speed compares to Kobe Bryant...

[timvp]

The question you should be asking yourself...is if Scola is so good how come the Sonics weren't after him.

Mr. The Sonics have tons of bigmen and wouldn't be interested in another.


Aside from that...just because the Suns made a bad deal doesn't mean every team is going too...

And furthermore...in hinsight, Scola seems a small price to pay to dump salary then, compared to the price the Suns just paid...

Totally contradicting your stance on the Spurs trading of Scola.

How did you just transition your lack of knowledge regarding NBA trades into a Scola argument? Do I really need to explain this trade to you?

The Sonics got two first round draft picks for their trade exception. With Nash being 34, those future first round draft picks could really be nice.

They didn't do that trade to get Kurt Thomas. He was just the contract they had to absorb to get what they really wanted. You thinking they wanted Kurt Thomas just goes to show you how little you understand what is going on.

We shall see...keep in mind, it's a long season.

We almost got JR Smith once upon a time for Barry...and he's been a better player since then than he was before then, statistically speaking.

Barry has a skill, and I don't care how much want to pretend that he doesn't...he does, it's a skill that comes in handy and aids the interior games of teams.

I could see any team being willing to take Barry if they need shooting...which he is very good at. Especially if they are in the playoff hunt and lack it.


Barry's value, will be determined by the laws of supply and demand...the same as it is for all players.

And Kurt Thomas aint all that...if he was, the Suns wouldn't be paying such a high price to get rid of him.

Then again....Kerr just could just be a ty GM. He is new at it you know...


Anyway...I'll let you get back to jocking the Suns cutting payroll while condemning your own team for it.

You just don't get it. It's hopeless.

Here is a game for you:

List NBA teams with the capabilities of absorbing Barry's contract. Then ask yourself if these teams would really waste the cap space just to acquire Barry and that's it.

You can throw your favorite two shot wonder Steve Kerr under the bus all you want, but he did what he had to do. Saving $16M isn't an easy thing to do. His other option was trading away Shawn Marion for nothing.

The difference is Kerr picked the lesser of two evils to deal with the luxury tax demon. The Spurs could have picked a lesser evil and just traded away Beno, but they panicked.

But you wouldn't know that because you don't understand how salary dumping trades work.

[timvp]

And @ you breaking down and bumping five year old threads trying to find a place where I was wrong.

You got owned. Deal with it like a man

If you want to call me out, do it in a new thread and link to the old thread. You know, like I've been doing when I point out all your wrong takes.

That Scola thread you bumped, I've always considered Scola's NBA potential being his Spurs potential. Being a shoot first, no defense playing choker doesn't work on the Spurs. However, it does work on a lot of teams.

And for the record, I've never really even liked Scola. I didn't like when he called out the Spurs when the Spurs drafted him. I didn't like it when he got mad when RC told him to rebound more.

But I've watched him enough to realize he has a spot in the NBA. Not on the Spurs ... but in a system such as Adelman's where he can shoot all he wants, he's going to put up stats.

Do you understand this or are you going to go bump another dozen threads trying to find places where I wasn't 100% right from a decade ago

[whottt]

So you're saying you don't think the Spurs would have given up Scola and two #1 picks and Butler's contract for an x trade exception?

OR subs ute Barry's contract for Butlers?

Or do you think the Sonics weren't interested in that?


I mean c'mon...Kurt Thomas is 50. Scola is this hot prospect...according to you. And if anyone would know it'd be Presti...


Oh I get it...the Suns #1 picks have value because they are in the lottery every year...


Prove to me it's all about money timvp...c'mon.


Fact: Scola isn't going to be a very good NBA player, and everyone in the Spurs FO knows it.

[Dro210]

I don't know how you could judge something like that from a youtube video..... but based on what I saw in those 3 clips....

I'ma go with No