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no offense taken, yes thats me. yes, i'm imperfect.
Although you probably woulda seen me more 'naked" at schlitterbahn 3 weeks ago.
and I'll tell you a secret under these clothes, I'm completely naked!
And the full box.
Although you probably woulda seen me more 'naked" at schlitterbahn 3 weeks ago.
and I'll tell you a secret under these clothes, I'm completely naked!
As an atheist, my position is that I don't care.
Kids are not the people they turn out to be later, so if they spout stuff by rote, who cares?
I grew up going to church, praying, and "believing" in all that mess...and when I got older, I gained the ability to accept or reject whatever I had been taught. And I'm no genius. Let the law-making babies have their bottles, and have confidence that you can guide your children into becoming free-thinking adults. If you don't instill that independence in them, those kids are going to have much bigger problems than having to recite things at school.
"Indoctrination" is overrated. As a parent, you have the power to overcome that stuff.
Terrible.
I don't see the problem as parents who actively take part in teaching kids the values they want to impart. The problem is parents who think it's the schools' job to teach their kids their particular values (i.e., the ones who pass these laws).
Now one might argue that schools always teach values, and "be nice and play well together" or other socialization skills are just as much a value as "believe in the Christian God". I don't really have a good response to that, except to say that I doubt very many people would seriously object to the first or see that as infringing on anyone's rights.
Last edited by ShoogarBear; 08-09-2007 at 08:05 PM.
My kids aren't going to do a pledge with "God" in it. And, Texas can kiss my ass if they want to make an issue out of it.
'Indoctrination' clearly works both ways....
Not only is the PoA recited followed by the Texas Pledge, but some schools say this one also:
Juro leatad a la bandera de los Estados Unidos de America
Y a la Republica que representa
Una nacion, bajo de Dios, Indivisible,
Con libertad y justicia
Para todos
Whatever. I don't see it as such a big deal. I mean, the whole concept of the American nation, and the Texas nation at that, was based on Christian values. I'm not directly implying that the "God" we're speaking of here is the Christian God, but the nation we live in is based on these concepts.
And as for remembering saying pledges, I do remember saying the PoA from kindergarten to 12th grade and actually, right at the end of 12th grade (2003) adding the Texas allegiance to the daily ritual. I mean, seriously...is the teacher going to go around monitoring the students voices? It's like hearing a whole group singing...sometimes some people say it louder than others which cause those who don't sing to be overpowered.
"based on Christian values."
such (unnamed) values are unique, exclusive to Christianity.
The Founding Papas, having seen how the Christain Church collaborated with the royalty to suppress Europe for 100s of years and enrich both Church, were very definitely anti-clerical and adamant about separation of Church and State.
Something I just remembered seeing a few years back. I love the old movies of the "Little Rascals" and record them whenever I can.
I recorded one particular episode that sticks out in my mind because of one opening scene. The Rascals wanting to join the Boy Scouts was the plot. They began the opening scene at a big gathering with the Scouts at their camp reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. Towards the end of the pledge, they recited......and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
We stood there puzzled and blinked our eyes.
God was omitted.
Later on, I found out that the word God was introduced after that Little Rascal's episode was filmed.
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