Best SF ever? May as well join in.

[RC's Boss]

Marion over Melo?????? while Melo hasn't gotten out of the 1st round, he's clearly better.

[The Truth #6]

Your completely undervaluing Pippen.
Jordan never won anything without him and vica versa, and without Jordan he had his greatest season ever, leading the Bulls to a 55-27 record and the 7th game of the second round.
Pippen was one of the best all around players I have ever seen

I'll give you his greatest season, but wasn't that also the same season he sat out the last play because it went to Toni instead of him? That alone makes me question his legacy to so me degree. What great player gives up like that? I would disagree with the opinion that Jordan couldn't do anything without Pippen. Jordan was clearly the more dominant of the two. Jordan dominated before Pippen arrived. He just didn't have crap to work with during the Doug Collins years. People use that same argument to defend KG, but in Jordan's situation it's actually true.

As for Pippen, except for the 55/27 season without Jordan, I remember him being much less spectacular with Portland and Houston. I don't think I'm undervaluing him. I'm recognizing his accomplishment as Jordan's sidekick, but he was never a clear leader on his own. I would consider him a legendary role player. Rodman, by contrast, dominated no matter where he played. I think Rodman was a better defender. He made every team better. Though he played PF later in his career, I still consider him a SF and I think he should be considered in the top ten. I think his legacy is much closer to Pippen's and perhaps even better.

[RC's Boss]

I'll give you his greatest season, but wasn't that also the same season he sat out the last play because it went to Toni instead of him? That alone makes me question his legacy to so me degree. What great player gives up like that? I would disagree with the opinion that Jordan couldn't do anything without Pippen. Jordan was clearly the more dominant of the two. Jordan dominated before Pippen arrived. He just didn't have crap to work with during the Doug Collins years. People use that same argument to defend KG, but in Jordan's situation it's actually true.

As for Pippen, except for the 55/27 season without Jordan, I remember him being much less spectacular with Portland and Houston. I don't think I'm undervaluing him. I'm recognizing his accomplishment as Jordan's sidekick, but he was never a clear leader on his own. I would consider him a legendary role player. Rodman, by contrast, dominated no matter where he played. I think Rodman was a better defender. He made every team better. Though he played PF later in his career, I still consider him a SF and I think he should be considered in the top ten. I think his legacy is much closer to Pippen's and perhaps even better.

Rodman was not a better defender than Pippen. Rebounder yes (he played PF). Pippen is on many polls as a top 5 SF and on the 50 greatest players list before even Wilkins for one main reason, he is arguably the best perimeter defender the league has ever seen. I can't think of another that can also score and pass not to mention run point in the history of the NBA. Jordan yelled at teamates and if I'm not mistaken, punched Steve Kerr, but he's still the GOAT.

[peskypesky]

No way Marion is in top 10. Forget about it. Top 10 of the past decade? OK. But anyone who thinks he's top 10 all-time clearly needs to go back and learn some history.

[ambchang]

He is the ultimate role player, which is exactly why I want him on my team. Pierce and McGrady are great offensive players (they're also ballhogs), but they haven't really proven anything. Howard is becoming a better player than Marion, but I don't think he's quite there yet.

By the way, I never said he was in my Top 10 SF, because he isn't. Top 25, maybe.

Pierce and McGrady you can build a team around, although the team may only win 35 games, you can still build a team around them because they can carry a team offensively.
Marion, you just can't. He is a good player, most teams would like him on their team (not the Spurs though), but if I had to pick a player to start my team between McGrady, Pierce, JHo and Marion, Marion would come up dead last.

[ambchang]

I'll give you his greatest season, but wasn't that also the same season he sat out the last play because it went to Toni instead of him? That alone makes me question his legacy to so me degree. What great player gives up like that? I would disagree with the opinion that Jordan couldn't do anything without Pippen. Jordan was clearly the more dominant of the two. Jordan dominated before Pippen arrived. He just didn't have crap to work with during the Doug Collins years. People use that same argument to defend KG, but in Jordan's situation it's actually true.

As for Pippen, except for the 55/27 season without Jordan, I remember him being much less spectacular with Portland and Houston. I don't think I'm undervaluing him. I'm recognizing his accomplishment as Jordan's sidekick, but he was never a clear leader on his own. I would consider him a legendary role player. Rodman, by contrast, dominated no matter where he played. I think Rodman was a better defender. He made every team better. Though he played PF later in his career, I still consider him a SF and I think he should be considered in the top ten. I think his legacy is much closer to Pippen's and perhaps even better.

Jordan actually had some quality teammates. He had Orlando "I don't ever play defense" Woolridge, Charles Oakley, a very very old Gervin, Quintin Dailey, John Paxson, and even Pippen and Grant before the Bulls were successful. The thing about Jordan is that he needs a team built very specifically to fit him to succeed. Due to his dominance of the ball, his PGs are all shooters that can't really create (Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr), his Cs plays the mid-range game or are decent interior defenders (Wellington, Longley + Cartright, Perdue), he needs a strong offensive rebounding SF (Rodman, Grant), and a SF who can direct traffic for him and is an incredible passer (Pippen), then there are the role players like Levingston and such. I bet if you put Jordan on the current Lakers team, he can't take them out of the first round. I am not taking anything away from Jordan, and there is no question that he is the best SG of all time, but for all the hate he had for Krause, Krause built an incredible team for him.
As for Rodman, I am surprised you forgot he destroyed the Spurs when he came, and was largely a distraction the last few years he was with Detroit. He is probably the best defender the league has ever seen due to his versatility, but he gave up playing defense since 93 and concentrated on hanging around the basket for rebounds. Pippen is just as effective defending the perimeter, plays all out most of the time (other than that 1.8 seconds), and is a million times the offensive player, there is no comparison.

[The Truth #6]

I've tried to look at Rodman's career in its entirety. Yes, things didn't work out well for him in SA, but at the same time, due to his presence, Dave had two of his best seasons playing alongside Dennis (MVP and scoring le), and they were close to going to the Finals (at least that's what the regular season suggested.)

Almost every team Rodman played for was in contention for a le - at Detroit, in SA, and at Chicago. Given that, I think its fair to give him credit where credit is due. A freak and a distraction at times yes, but his 16 rebounds a game made it work, at least for some teams. I agree Pippen was a much better scorer, but I think Rodman's effect on team success was arguably greater. He was a role player as well, but didn't need anyone to feed off to do his thing. In my opinion his career is more consistent than Pippen's. Playing with Jordan didn't make him somehow better, whereas with Pippen, I think Jordan's presence was crucial. This seems to have haunted Pippen, causing him to come up with outlandish statements last year saying how most coaches would rather have had him over Jordan.

[BradLohaus]

Bird's the best, but c'mon people, where's Jerry West? I think he's #2.

[Agloco]

The list is quite simple:

1) Larry Bird (by a hair mind you......)

2) Sean Elliott (no way in am I omitting the Memorial Day Mircale from this list)

3) Scottie Pippen (the best second banana there ever was)


I don't care about the rest.
There's only a small amount of hometown bias in my list...........

[SRJ]

Jerry West was a guard.

[ambchang]

Bird's the best, but c'mon people, where's Jerry West? I think he's #2.

If West was #2, Jordan is definitely #1.

[wildbill2u]

01 Larry Bird
02 Julius Erving
03 Scottie Pippen
04 Rick Barry
05 Shawn Marion
06 Dominique Wilkins
07 Alex English
08 Adrian Dantley
09 Bernard King
10 Mark Aguirre

Once you get down to Dantley, King and Aguirre you're down to a group of players which could easily be edged out by some others who had longer careers at a high or higher level or won more honors. King only played four years for example. And high scoring, while eye-catching is not the only part of the game that counts.

One guy who is already in the HOF but often gets overlooked is Bobby Jones. He was on the ALL Defensive team every year for 10+ years and still averaged about 15 pts for his career. He was an all-star five times--more than either King, Dantley or Aguirre.