if u insist hunting is a sport, between man an animal, it is an extremely unfair one. and a sport is a compe ion, and a compe ion must be fair, no? Hunting is only fair when it is two men killing eachother with guns. oops that's murder.
I'm just not with them torturing the dogs. If they injected them, fine. They crossed the line with torturing them. imo
I worked for an animal shelter in my early years (court ordered!). I watched them feed kittens to the predators they caught, (hawks, Bobcats, coyotes etc...) that's some heavy . Do we put them in jail for that?
i'm confused by your response. i thought you were saying that fishing doesn't count as sport hunting since you eat the fish or that 99 percent of the time you eat the fish. i was saying that there is still that 1 percent that doesn't eat the fish and thus are sport hunting and thus as bad as dog fighting. eating meat and dogfighting are not the same and not hypocritical. the manner in which meat is prepared and reared may be bad (i've read omnivore's dilemna, too) but that is simply the method of the death, not the fact that meat was being eaten. if everyone hunted for their food, why would that be evil or inhumane since every other species on the planet kills animals to eat? but dogfighting, by its nature and design, requires grisly death both in the training and extermination of the other animal. there is no redeemable quality to dogfighting and at least some plausible benefit can be gained from hunting, sporting or otherwise.
I guess I should clarify, or see my last response to chump. Yes, I think dogfighting is a level beyond sport hunting in terms of how horrific it is, but hunting for sport, except in instances of overpopulation, shares with dogfighting a disregard for animal life and a desire to use animals for ones own gratification.
This is still going on?
Dogfighting is NOT ABOUT THE DOGS OR FIGHTING. Its about gambling. The owner of the winning dog does not get a trophy, he doesn't even get money, unless he placed some bets.
Dog fighting is the result of someone wanting to gamble.
There are hunters that care about the deer, they get early to check the weather, they go jump through hoops like putting out salt blocks and corn, they put deer urine around their deer blinds ... All this to get close enough to get that one shot at a deer ... You don't get a second shot ... They run fast ... If you miss, you try again next year.
All some of you stupid enough to not see the difference or just not informed on what goes into hunting and dogfighting?
Dog fighting is completely and utterly about gambling, nobody goes to a dogfight to see the fights, they go to gamble.
but that aspect of the activity is not what makes it worse than sport hunting. even if the goals are different, the end result is the same: the needless death of an animal (and here, i could even lump hunting for food unless the person is truly still part of a hunter-gatherer society. in an industrialized nation, such excursions are just exercise not a matter of survival. and even the problems with how animals are reared and slaughtered don't get made better by hunting, since the practices continue but don't garner the necessary attention. but that's a different topic for another day). do the hunters go through more hoops to prepare for their kill? maybe, it's debatable. while cruel and torment, the dog owners do put in time to train the animal and get it ready to fight (again, not saying it's a good thing but pointing out that such things are done by magic and can be construed as hoops to be jumped through). so the idea that more work goes into hunting compared to dogfighting doesn't really fly. plus, if you miss, it's not about waiting until next year, more like the next weekend of the hunting season or the next creature that happens by. and that doesn't even count the kind of corralled hunting vice president cheney was doing when he shot his buddy in south texas.
what's more, these dogs are themselves acting as trophies and status symbols for their owners. part of the macho appeal to this nonsense outside of making a buck watching things kill each other (which can be done through fighting or betting on cat fights, for that matter) is getting branded as the dude with the toughest, baddest mutt. i'm sure there's a reason dmx made so many dog references and a popular phrase is "off the chain," which i didn't realize until this nonsense broke referred to when a dog is ready for fighting and gets taken off its chain, or some such.
i give you that.
what if he ate the dogs, would that make him Vietnamese?
I call bull . There are an infinite number of ways to gamble - legally or not - that don't involve two animals ripping each other to shreds.Dog fighting is completely and utterly about gambling, nobody goes to a dogfight to see the fights, they go to gamble.
is not dog racing not about gambling?
The act of hunting is more of a "one and done" scenario. It is also used to control overpopulation. Dogfighting is a long, dragged out, painful ordeal.
95% of the time the animal that is hunted is dead within seconds of being shot. Dogfighting is cruel because it makes the combatants suffer over and over again.
Wild deer/Elk/Moose, etc aren't raised to trust humans as the source of meeting their needs, only to be made to fight, get injured, and later killed in cruel ways by the same humans they had depended on for everything.
Most hunters I know (myself included) hunt for the meat. And we eat what we kill, or at least give it away to someone who will. Circle of life kinda thing. If it's a big deer, yes, we'll mount the head or the antlers. But what else are you going to do with them? You can't eat head and antlers. I've also yet to meet a hunter who actually takes joy in killing the animal. In fact, I'd say hunters have a greater respect for animals than most people do. The gratification from hunting comes from being in the outdoors and putting together a successful hunt after all the preparation, stalking, tracking, hiking, etc. It's more about the challenge than anything. Which is why a lot of hunters like to bow hunt. It greatly increases the challenge. Man vs Wild thing.
The comparison is just ridiculous. It's apples and oranges. The day hunters start going out into the woods to capture fawns, raise them up in brutally tortuous ways, only to hang, electrocute, or drown them because they didn't grow up tender and juicy enough is the day I'll take the comparison seriously.
if PETA could make hunting illegal they would and they'd crucify anyone caught doing it but it's not and they can't say . Dogfighting is something that's illegal and they have the power to force the issue and put pressure on government to enforce this law, they've made it a priority to bring dogfighting into the spotlight. Mike Vick is the vehicle to that, so he ed up and goes to jail and PETA gets what they've wanted for a while. Vick, far from innocent, gets the scarlet letter and is now branded evil.
Also, if anyone is surprised that Vick gets jail time they should watch animal planet's "Cops" show, people get throw in jail for far less then dog fighting. Certain cities are making animal cruelty of any kind a serious crime, for example not having proper living conditions could land you in jail.
the day somebody mounts a dead dog's head in his living room as a point of pride, so will i.
so there is illegal gambling, drugs and organized crime in deer hunting gatherings?
You might want to go check the living rooms of your local dogfighters then. As far as they're concerned, it's open season on dog all year long.
Your beef seems to be with the trophy hunters. Go whine to them, because they're a small minority in the hunting community. Most of us do it for the meat, the experience of the outdoors, and the adventure of it.
Regardless of where your beef lies, or what your opinion of hunting is, it doesn't matter to me. I really couldn't care less. I'm going to continue hunting (and mounting the antlers of the big ones) no matter what people like you think. Don't like it? Tough .
Last edited by IceColdBrewski; 08-22-2007 at 03:05 PM.
no, but it does make you a dumb .
I've seen athletes say some stupid things over this Vick mess, but this may take the cake.
In theory, you hunt a deer for food. If you are at all competent at hunting, the deer never even knows what hit it. Dog-fighting is done for the vicarious thrill of watching the combat or death of the dog. Big difference.
Tens of thousands of whitetail die in the Continental U.S. every year from starvation or chronic wasting disease. There is a whitetail overpopulation crisis, as the deer are able to live in marginal habitat that other wildlife must abandon. In contrast, these dogs are raised to kill or be killed.
Although both hunting and dog-fighting have centuries of tradition, one is a licensed and socially accepted activity that creates thousands of U.S. jobs (gun, clothing, and ammunition manufacturers to name a few). On the other hand, dog-fighting is an underground, marginalized activity precisely becuase the majority of Americans find it repugnant.
If I miss a deer and it gets away, there is little or no chance of it mauling a bus full of third graders. I can't say that about a trained pit bull.
Fun Fact: The only times I have been in Texas were to buy guns or hunt. Viva La Grande Tejas!
Im absolutely appalled.
Appalled, by how anyone, now a days, can not only defend, dogfighting, not just justify it, but say that someone who admits to it is, "being torn down"
Im absolutely, shocked. That anyone that can breathe and has a brain, would say "eh, dogfighting isn't much different than hunting"
All these people that say "I can't believe they put guys away for dog fighting"
Why is that so hard to believe, should it be ok to let someone out on the streets that HANGS a dog!?!?
I can't believe you think its ok to not sending someone to jail FOR doing to dogs what these EVIL people did.
They aren't just sick. They are EVIL.
I'm appalled at all of those grammatical errors.
Where did anybody say Vick shouldn't be punished? My only point is that things like hunting, veal and foie gras have more in common with dogfighting than is commonly understood. And no, the solution is not to jail hunters or foodies, but to reassess where to draw certain lines.
Hunting would be like dogfighting if all the deer wore heavy chains around their necks and were tied to trees while hunters were allowed to carry machine guns and grenades. Then instead of killing the deer the hunter would only wound it and then hook up the deer to their car battery and fry it to "call it out" for allowing the hunter to shoot it. Then maybe hunting would be like dogfighting, maybe.
Dogfighting = killing animals for your gratification.
Trophy hunting = killing animals for your gratification.
Dogfighting is worse, but there's an essential similarity.
I think Marbury's comments, while misguided, make for good conversation... and I don't really get why people seem to flip out anytime anyone offers a contrary opinion on the Vick story.
I also really think you guys are painting a conveniently rosy and noble picture of hunting. I'd be interested in knowing how often "population control" comes up in conversation when you get your buddies together for a hunt. That's not to say it's anywhere close to comparable to dogfighting as a practice... but the primary source of the appeal of the two activities are definitely cousins of each other.
Fortunately, one of those activities has some positive results from its practice.
For better or worse, there aren't enough predators in the US to balance the population of certain animals. There are agencies set up where they determine the number of licenses sold and the limit per license for hunters, with the specific goal of keeping the population in check. If this were not done, there would be severe overpopulation and famine and disesase would be required to regain the natural balance. THAT is the point of hunting. If citizens didn't pay for the privilege, people would have to be hired to do it.
A little research goes a long way. I've said this before, but drawing parallels from one activity to the other is kind of like saying rape is okay because women like sex.
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