Harvey: Spurs lose Scola; they aren't alone

[ShoogarBear]

Yes...how you think Dennis Rodman averaged so many rebounds?

He'd do 4 or 5 tips to himself every time he touched the ball...but it still was important, because he usually came down with the ball. Just like Oberto's tips usually go right to where he wants them to..one of his teamates.

Uh, no.

There can only be one rebound after a missed shot. The only way you get multiple rebounds on tips is if you're putting offensive rebounds back up for shots. Moses Malone and George McGinnis used to get multiple rebounds that way. There's no way on the defensive end, though, that you get credit for more than one rebound until somebody misses another shot.

[barbacoataco]

I think that one of the reasons other teams didn't want him was the buyout issue and questions if he really wanted to play in the NBA, and how much he wanted to be paid. Teams might have given up a 1st rounder if they were SURE they could sign him and get him on their team, for the price the Rockets paid. Even when the Rockets traded for him some people were not sure if they could sign him and take him away for Tau. So it hurt his trade value because teams didn't want to give up a 1st round pick and wind up with nothing in return.

[whottt]

Uh, no.

There can only be one rebound after a missed shot. The only way you get multiple rebounds on tips is if you're putting offensive rebounds back up for shots. Moses Malone and George McGinnis and David Robinson used to get multiple rebounds that way.

Fixed

There's no way on the defensive end, though, that you get credit for more than one rebound until somebody misses another shot.

So are you saying it has to touch the rim? If that's true I never noticed that being necessary.

It being on the defensive end is moot to the point I was making about Rodman...Rodman's rebounding sickness was because of his offensive rebounding more than his defensive...

He lead the NBA in offensive rebounds 6 times, including an absolutely sickening 6 and half offensive rebounds per game, and including all his monster rebound seasons....only lead it in defensive rebounding 3 times.


I am not so sure the rule is the same there as you think. It might be that way on the defensive end...but I am almost certain you get multiple offensive boards without the ball touching the rim.

[whottt]

Yeah, but sometimes he tips them and they don't go to a teammate. and sometimes he's just fighting somebody for the rebound and it gets into the hands of a teammate. In neither of those cases does he get credit for the rebound, so there has to be a judgment call by the scorer.

I am talking about the deliberate tips...that's what smeagol is taking about too. The ones where he reaches up and taps the ball back...it's pretty obvious and there's not much judgement to it. And I think they count those even if his teamates don't wind up with the ball.

[timvp]

I am not so sure the rule is the same there as you think. It might be that way on the defensive end...but I am almost certain you get multiple offensive boards without the ball touching the rim.

Wrong.

To get credit for a rebound, a shot has to be missed. Tipping the ball repeatedly in the air doesn't give you multiple rebounds. It has to hit either the rim or the backboard ... and even then it won't count as multiple offensive rebounds unless the tips were deemed field goal attempts.

[CPspursfan]

I was pretty shocked that the spurs FO practically gave scola away, but after watching the FIBA tournament there are a couple of things that I left thinking...
1) It would have been nice to run out a second team consisting of Vaughn, Manu, barry/udoka, scola, and elson.
2) Scola must have slept w/ RC's wife or something. The FO is doing it's usual cia job and not saying anything.
3) Scola is NOT a game changer. He is not Manu and at best he is as good as Oberto (this is not an insult as I like Oberto's game). But he IS an undersized PF and it wasn't that long ago that the spurs had an undersized PF that played with a lot of heart, hustle, and energy.
4) Scola will average 12-5 with the rockets.

[timvp]

I am talking about the deliberate tips...that's what smeagol is taking about too. The ones where he reaches up and taps the ball back...it's pretty obvious and there's not much judgement to it. And I think they count those even if his teamates don't wind up with the ball.

So if Oberto tips a rebound to an opposing player, you think Oberto gets credit for the rebound?

I watched the stats closely last year and Oberto was almost always given the rebound if he tipped it to a teammate. I'd say like 95-98% of the time Oberto would get credit as long as a teammate secured the ball. Sometimes though, the scorers wouldn't give it to him ... in which their thinking has to be it wasn't a "controlled" tip.

But in recent years, the definition of controlled tip has expanded pretty generously. For example, those times Oberto just batted the ball blindly to half court, he'd almost always get credit.

[whottt]

Wrong.

To get credit for a rebound, a shot has to be missed. Tipping the ball repeatedly in the air doesn't give you multiple rebounds. It has to hit either the rim or the backboard ... and even then it won't count as multiple offensive rebounds unless the tips were deemed field goal attempts.

Eh...I am not going to argue it because I'm not certain and because it makes too much sense. I always assumed that those tips Rodman was doing...I am not just talking about tipping it directly to himself because he's not in control of it...I am talking about tipping it to keep it away from the hands of taller players...were giving him extra boards. But now that I think about it...that would be pretty cheap.

[whottt]

So if Oberto tips a rebound to an opposing player, you think Oberto gets credit for the rebound?



I watched the stats closely last year and Oberto was almost always given the rebound if he tipped it to a teammate. I'd say like 95-98% of the time Oberto would get credit as long as a teammate secured the ball. Sometimes though, the scorers wouldn't give it to him ... in which their thinking has to be it wasn't a "controlled" tip.

But in recent years, the definition of controlled tip has expanded pretty generously. For example, those times Oberto just batted the ball blindly to half court, he'd almost always get credit.

You are oversimplifying it...suppose Oberto tips it perfectly to a teamate and the teamate isn't looking for it or it gets stripped before he has control of it...

That's not on Oberto...Oberto obviously controlled the ball enough to tip it where he wanted it to go and the failure to get the ball is due to teamates.

I didn't just say whoever touches it in a helter skelter scrub gets the board.



Look...I gave credit for the offensive rebounding, see how is it easy to get me to concede an argument when I am not sure of myself? Congrats...you got something off Shoogar's tip...but don't be thinking you're all right about every thing now...don't let it go to your head.


And shouldn't you be adding pitchers right about now? Again? IT's been 30 minutes.

[timvp]

You are oversimplifying it...suppose Oberto tips it perfectly to a teamate and the teamate isn't looking for it or it gets stripped before he has control of it...

That's not on Oberto...Oberto obviously controlled the ball enough to tip it where he wanted it to go and the failure to get the ball is due to teamates.

So if Oberto tips it to a teammate who isn't looking, you seriously think he gets credit for the rebound? Then who gets credit for the turnover? Oberto or the teammate who wasn't looking?

I didn't just say whoever touches it in a helter skelter scrub gets the board.

Never said you did.

Look...I gave credit for the offensive rebounding, see how is it easy to get me to concede an argument when I am not sure of myself? Congrats...you got something off Shoogar's tip...but don't be thinking you're all right about every thing now...don't let it go to your head.

I can't help if you are wrong multiple times in the same thread. Just trying to help you catch up.

And shouldn't you be adding pitchers right about now? Again? IT's been 30 minutes.

I already gave you congrats. What more do you want?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They could have done nothing, forcing Scola to return to Europe, but that wouldn't have been fair to Scola.

Lame. I'm sorry, but they should have waited until after the FIBA tourney, they would have had better offers than they got back in June and early July.

Horrible personnel management on this one.

[whottt]

So if Oberto tips it to a teammate who isn't looking, you seriously think he gets credit for the rebound? Then who gets credit for the turnover? Oberto or the teammate who wasn't looking?

Oberto probably gets credit for the rebound...and the TO.

It's not like it's just bouncing any direction of his hands...he's definitely controlling it enough to get it where he wants it to go, in the back court.

That's probably the major determinant....if it goes into the back court it was a rebound.

I already gave you congrats. What more do you want?

For you to forget the waiver wire exists...or at least change your team name

[timvp]

Oberto probably gets credit for the rebound...and the TO.

It's not like it's just bouncing any direction of his hands...he's definitely controlling it enough to get it where he wants it to go, in the back court.

That's probably the major determinant....if it goes into the back court it was a rebound.

Decent in theory but it doesn't work that way. If Oberto (or anyone else) tips a rebound and it isn't secured by a teammate ... whoever the defender is who ends up with the ball gets credit for the rebound.

If Oberto got a turnover for every tip rebound that didn't go to a teammate, he'd average a lot more than .5 turnovers per game.

For you to forget the waiver wire exists...or at least change your team name

No need to worry about me when you move on to the next round. You've got the championship in the bag already.

[whottt]

Lame. I'm sorry, but they should have waited until after the FIBA tourney, they would have had better offers than they got back in June and early July.

Horrible personnel management on this one.

This suggestion is lame.

#1. You don't know what Tau was going to offer Scola. It's not 100% certain he wasn't going to sign a long term deal.

#2. The Spurs are trying to repeat...not around with malcontents all offseason. They didn't want any questions or distractions keeping them from the task at hand.

#3. Scola wasn't essential to winning a le...I think Udoka can definitely be more of a factor. Why sit there and keep a roster spot tied up and lose out on guys that could help while you are ing around trying to get more for Scola...



Bottom line...Scola wasn't as hot of a commodity as anyone thought.

Even if we had held on to him, his contract still would have been vague to the trading team, and he still wouldn't have been as valued as he is now, with his contract cleared up.


And the teams still would have been wary of trading for him...because of the rep of the Spurs FO...I mean if Scola's so great, wny are the Spurs trading him?


Those are the smart teams BTW....it's pretty obvious why the Spurs traded him.


Bottom line is just that you guys are pissed we didn't get more for him...it's got nothing to do with le contention or the teams goals for this year...or beyond...it's just you guys don't we got a good enough deal for him. And you guys wanted the Spurs to around all season with this so they could get somethiing better(although what you think we could have gotten I have no idea)....I am glad the Spurs focused on improving the team for this season instead being Monty Hall.

[Yogi]

Even if we had held on to him, his contract still would have been vague to the trading team, and he still wouldn't have been as valued as he is now, with his contract cleared up.

He's valued now, because it's clear he'll contribute significantly, which is in stark contrast to the 'he sucks, he's a malcontent' propaganda trotted out by the same usual suspects in the SA media.

Bottom line is just that you guys are pissed we didn't get more for him.

, I would have welcomed trading him for a second round draft pick.... as long as it was to some scrub team in the east, not a freaking division rival.

I'm mad because this guy could have come off the bench behind Tim and we could have run our O (which tends to stagnate with the second unit on the court) through him and gotten 12-15 and 7 a night, and not only do they go away from that idea, but they trade him to a division rival, give them a piece they sorely needed, and now we have to deal with a POed Scola playing out of his mind however many times we play Houston each year (accounting for the playoffs).

Yep, awesome move.

[ArgSpursFan]

Eh...I am not going to argue it because I'm not certain and because it makes too much sense. I always assumed that those tips Rodman was doing...I am not just talking about tipping it directly to himself because he's not in control of it...I am talking about tipping it to keep it away from the hands of taller players...were giving him extra boards. But now that I think about it...that would be pretty cheap.

tippin aint a rebound,that´s why it´s called a tip,not a board,you BB expert.
TIMVP is right,the player needs to get control of the ball to be considered a rebound,that´s why oberto ended up with less tham 6 rpgs last year,coze tips dont count as boards.
tipping could be considered more like a pass tham a board.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Lame. I'm sorry, but they should have waited until after the FIBA tourney, they would have had better offers than they got back in June and early July.

Horrible personnel management on this one.

exactly, Spurs FO look like ing fools giving up the FIBA MVP for litteraly NOTHING to a rival


if they would have done this now, the offers would have been SIGNIFACTLY better




Spurs will pay for this move

[ChumpDumper]

1) Who was predicting Tournament MVP for Scola?

2) Scola has already played at this level in FIBA tournaments before. He just had the luxury of being the only reliable scorer on this particular team.

3) You guys act like NBA GMs have never heard of Scola. He is a known quan y.

4) So we could've gotten Oden if we had just waited?

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

4) So we could've gotten Oden if we had just waited?

ahhhh



so you resort to extreme exaggeration to mask your weak argument




classic chump

[ChumpDumper]

Really, why would this change any GMs mind? What would he have gotten this week?

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Really, why would this change any GMs mind?

why would it change GMs mind that he was the MVP of the FIBA tourny that just happened?




you serious?

[ChumpDumper]

why would it change GMs mind that he was the MVP of the FIBA tourny that just happened?




you serious?

Yes, quite serious. If there was an actual change in Scola's level of play, you might have an argument. As it is, he just scored more because Manu and Chapu were out and he got the MVP because there was a split in the votes for American players.

[saporvida]

im so sick of hearing that we traded scola to a "rival" of ours that hasnt been so in many many yrs. houston aint a threat considering they cant get out of the 1st round.

with old man mutombo going back to houston it seems as though scola will be riding the pine. isnt that why he initially didnt want to be a part of the spurs? him!

[SRJ]

I'm mad because this guy could have come off the bench behind Tim and we could have run our O (which tends to stagnate with the second unit on the court) through him and gotten 12-15 and 7 a night

My response is not one of the sour grapes variety, but I don't understand how Luis Scola would have gotten 12-15/7 on a team that plays a slowdown style and gets about 55 points from its Big Three. Where would those numbers come from playing in the Spurs system?

Now if Scola was joining the Suns, I could see him putting up those sorts of numbers in his first year. But not here.

exactly, Spurs FO look like ing fools giving up the FIBA MVP for litteraly NOTHING to a rival

David Eckstein was the 2006 World Series MVP. Doesn't make him a good baseball player - it just means he got hot at the right time. (And if you'll check the record, he wasn't the Cardinals best player during the World Series)

Scola is a better basketball player than Eckstein is a baseball player, but I still wouldn't put too much stock in an award like that - unless you think Tony Parker is the best player on the Spurs roster.

[mardigan]

exactly, Spurs FO look like ing fools giving up the FIBA MVP for litteraly NOTHING to a rival


if they would have done this now, the offers would have been SIGNIFACTLY better




Spurs will pay for this move

On no, not the Fiba MVP!