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That Sonics team was really, really good
And that Jazz team had 2 top 50 players of all time, I dont know if I would say either team were slouches
I will give a more recent example. When grandpa Jordan at 39 years old was in Washington he was much slower, out of shape, and had broken his finger on his shooting hand that summer.With all that he still averaged 23 points on 49% shooting. AT 39!!!!!! Now who was he playing against?
That Sonics team was really, really good
And that Jazz team had 2 top 50 players of all time, I dont know if I would say either team were slouches
Last edited by mardigan; 09-05-2007 at 01:27 PM.
Bulls=Best Championship Team Evah. End of thread.
Oh ok, so the GOAT of all time was still a decent player. Gotcha.
Hey look over here I'm going to break this down for you. You said the Spurs couldn't win more than one game against the Bulls. I called bull and said the Spurs are better than the Jazz in the last three-peats; teams that took 2 games each off the Bulls in the finals. I never said that the Spurs could beat the Bulls. I don't think the Spurs could beat the Bulls of the first three-peat. They might have had a shot at the 98 team though. The problem for the Spurs is that the defense the Spurs play has trouble with the triangle; that and the Bulls had excellent mid-range shooters.
Oh by the way, Jordan averaged 22.9 pts on 41.6% at 38 and 20 pts on 44.5% at 39...and didn't get out of the first round in the East.
It was good, but they couldn't hold a candle to the Spurs, seriously.
Duncan >>>Kemp Kemp would cause Duncan some trouble but hey so does Amare
We already know that TP>Payton
Even if Payton was aging at the time; TP hadn't even started to get as good as he is, when he wiped the floor with Payton.
And I'd take Manu and Bowen over Detlef Schrempf, Hersey Hawkins, and Nate McMillan
so now the silly argument has turned to whether the spurs would have been beaten as badly as the Sonics. What a pointless thread.
Thats not a given, and the stats would say that GP>Parker at that time in Paytons career. He was also maybe the best defensive point guard ever, so I dont know if I would say that. They also had Sam Perkins, who wasnt a scrub
Last edited by mardigan; 09-05-2007 at 01:37 PM.
Ok L.I.T. you caught me on my bull statsbut my point was he was still outplaying most of the so called superstars of today WAY beyond his prime. The reason was because of the difference i mentioned earlier. Knowledge of the game.
Uh huh Payton the best defensive guard couldn't handle the rookie Parker in his first playoffs. Payton hadn't fallen off his skills at that point, and couldn't handle what Parker brought.
The same can be extended to Harper or Jordan trying to guard Parker. Parker is literally unstoppable at times. And he is the best finisher at his position in the paint ever. People here need to recognizer that while Parker doesn't lead his own team in San Antonio, he is more than capable of it.
That's not even bringing Duncan into the equation.
This Spurs team is something special, and I think if Uduoka is capable of what I think he is capable of, next years teams will be their best ever.
Im not discounting Parker, your discounting Payton.
01-02 playoffs are the playoffs your talking about right.
Parker-15 points, 4 assists, 3 rebounds
Payton-22 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists
And Payton was like 34 at the time guarding what, like a 19 year old?
Seems like Payton did just fine
And I was talking about the Finals Payton, who was like 28, way to try and steer your argument away from that and still lose.
Im a Spurs homer, but I dont discount what other players did and were just because they didnt suit up for the silver and black
their defense was better because with the exception of Jordan, you could handcheck alot more, grab double dribble even more than now. I would say that it would depend on which rules the nba would follow and if dennis felt like playing defense or not. I think manu & tony would have big games and tim would orchestrate the team as usual. If the spurs weren't allowed to breath on jordan then the bulls would have the edge.
I have another overlooked aspect of that seattle team i'd like to mention. Before Shawn Kemp started f@#king up his career did you realize he was Duncans equal? Before you spout some Biased opinion go check out some reignman highlights from 92 to 98.
Highlights are nice, but he was no where near the player Duncan was on both sides of the floor, its not even close.
Kemp
Most points per season-20
Most rebounds-11
Most blocks-2
Timmy
Points-26
Boards-13
Blocks-3
Kemp also only averaged over 2 assists once in his career, while Tim has averaged at least 3 every year of his career except one
Again, he was a great dunker, but he was never even close to Tim
Last edited by mardigan; 09-05-2007 at 02:42 PM.
The defensive rules have changed so much since then -- not only the handchecking rule, but also the illegal defense rules -- that it's really hard to make an apples to apples comparison with regard to matchups and styles.
A couple of points, though:
1. The comparisons to the Jazz and the Sonics are laughable. Cite all the stats you want about Payton, Kemp, Malone and Stockton... but they were all ultimately losers and chokers who couldn't get the job done. That fact alone sets the Spurs apart from any of these pretenders, regardless of the fact that they had to get through MJ to get their ring. At the end of the day, you can't argue with the scoreboard and none of those guys ever won a ring.
2. The one thing I can't get past is Jordan's will to win. The Spurs, as great as they are, never have had the invincibility that the Bulls had, and it's all because of Jordan's freakish compe iveness and will to win. To me, that kind of trumps all of this discussion and tips the scales to the Bulls. I think the Spurs would take them to 6 or 7 games, but I can't see Jordan losing in the end.
3. Dennis Rodman (or any other post player on the Bulls 6 championship teams) would've been used and abused by Tim Duncan. Anybody who thinks that this matchup is anything but a complete and utter landslide in favor of the Spurs is off their rocker.
So you call the Jazz and Sonics teams losers for losing to the Bulls, then state that the SPurs would have lost to the Bulls.
Good point
And Payton does actually have a ring
Another point, say all you want about those Jazz and Sonics teams, but you dont think those teams could have gotten past the Cavs, Nets, or Knicks?
, I would argue that they could have gotten past the Pistons as well.
Actually what?
Unless you average the 20.5 up to 21, so ok, most points in a season 21, you got me
Aww, dont tell me you were looking at the playoff averages?
Actually i was.My bad.
The Spurs didnt "handle" Shaq, Kobe, and Horry.
From the time Phil Jackson became coach of the Lakers in 2000 and the Lakers begain their mini dynasty to the time the team was broken up in 2005, the Spurs faced the Lakers in the playoffs 4 times.
Here were the results:
LA won 14 of the 21 playoff games and 3 of the 4 playoff series.
How the is that "handling" LA?
They lost to LA a lot more than they beat them. Beating someone once in 4 tries doesnt give you the right to say you had their number or got the best of them.
If the late 90's Jazz were in today's NBA they would be at worst the 2nd best team in the league (them and SA fighting it out for #1).
Those Jazz teams were pretty damn good, they gave the Bulls the best run for their money of any teams the Bulls ever faced.
They'd have clobbered teams like the Cavs, Nets, and Knicks as you mention.
, the Jazz of 2006 who were nothing compared to the old school Jazz were able to get to the WCF in today's diluted NBA.
It was very unfortunate the Spurs didnt have Jackson or Claxton for 2004. Losing those guys literally hurt the Spurs in 04. They would have raped the living out of LA had they of kept that 03 team in tact and not trying to land Jason Kidd. that 2003 team should of finished the Lakers with very little trouble in 5 games if they didnt give game 4 away.
true dat!
Thats the stupidest thing i've ever heard. I guess the Spurs greatness should be called in question because they lost to the in Bobcats.
Don't forget his 50 point game either.
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