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  1. #51
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Yes!


    please elaborate.
    In other words, both wrote articles reviewing the book in which they substantially supported its premise, and stated that it makes an important argument about the mission of America in the world, and that conservatives ought to read it.

    I don't really agree with the premise of the book, inasmuch as it is a horrendous blasphemy, anathema anathema maranatha, and makes America out to be the abomination that causes desolation.

  2. #52
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    and makes America out to be the abomination that causes desolation.
    Which I've regarded as a feasible eschatology for some time now.

  3. #53
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    I'm picking up the book today. Thanks and also for the new words.

  4. #54
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    This thread has been a great read (so far).

  5. #55
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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    I'm picking up the book today. Thanks and also for the new words.


    I had to m-w and wikipedia that post as well.

  6. #56
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    So you've got a smartass kid drawing attention to himself by yelling about racism and secret societies removed with unnecessary force by anxious cops overreacting in an effort to silence him in order to make the whole incident less awkward for a clueless politician on stage who has no idea how to handle any of it in front of a large crowd of people who are pleasantly entertained by the whole thing. How perfect.

  7. #57
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    So you've got a smartass kid drawing attention to himself by yelling about racism and secret societies removed with unnecessary force by anxious cops overreacting in an effort to silence him in order to make the whole incident less awkward for a clueless politician on stage who has no idea how to handle any of it in front of a large crowd of people who are pleasantly entertained by the whole thing. How perfect.
    So you are saying the kid is an idiot, the police are idiots, Kerry is and idiot . . . I cannot do anything but concur.

  8. #58
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    So you are saying the kid is an idiot, the police are idiots, Kerry is and idiot . . . I cannot do anything but concur.
    according to Extra it's a sign of the end of the world.

  9. #59
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    Idiot is a strong word.

    The student is simply communicating his opinion in the way we have grown to expect them to be communicated. Brash, stubborn, loud and sarcastic.

    The campus police are underpaid and undertrained, and are part of a larger society that, for the most part, believes public disturbances should be silenced whenever possible.

    John Kerry is a career politician, trained for decades to speak as vaguely as humanly possible, and sheltered from being put on the spot by real people.

  10. #60
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    according to Extra it's a sign of the end of the world.
    One possible scenario I have imagined is that, once the democratic polity of the United States is exhausted, as is inevitable given that every ins ution of the present world is subject to death and corruption, it becomes an autocratic state in order to protect what is left of the power of the elites, and that in order to keep the people in line, a hyper-patriotic Christo-American synchretistic state religion is ins uted, and that those who will not bow before the state are persecuted as threats to national security, just as in the Roman Empire prior to A.D. 313.

    This idea is by no means deterministic.

  11. #61
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    This idea is by no means deterministic.
    But come to think of it, it would be a cool premise for a movie.

  12. #62
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I don't give a that it was a Kerry speech. I'd feel the same way if it was Ann Coulter speaking. Once you start ing with the police, you're going down. He started ing with the police -- it's completely different from ing with a speaker. Had he not resisted, he would not have been tasered. He should've just gone limp and kept yelling.

    This could go either way in court, but this kid gave away control of his situation by actively resisting.

  13. #63
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    One possible scenario I have imagined is that, once the democratic polity of the United States is exhausted, as is inevitable given that every ins ution of the present world is subject to death and corruption, it becomes an autocratic state in order to protect what is left of the power of the elites, and that in order to keep the people in line, a hyper-patriotic Christo-American synchretistic state religion is ins uted, and that those who will not bow before the state are persecuted as threats to national security, just as in the Roman Empire prior to A.D. 313.

    This idea is by no means deterministic.
    In this brave new world, would boutons be persecuted like Christians were in pre-Constantine times?

  14. #64
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    In this brave new world, would boutons be persecuted like Christians were in pre-Constantine times?
    Do you really think he'd have the backbone to stare down the barrel of a gun and stand firm?

  15. #65
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    Once thing I'm struggling with is that, no matter how much unnecessary force the cops used, once they approach you, you cannot resist. I'm assuming that if he did not resist, we would've not been tasered.

    If people condone that kind of behavior, society quickly goes down a very slippery slope.

    If you don't believe me, come and visit the land of the Pampas and see how policemen are treated here. As a society, we have gone down that slope and it not pretty.

  16. #66
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    Do you really think he'd have the backbone to stare down the barrel of a gun and stand firm?
    Barrel of a gun? That would be to easy compared to what those dudes went through.

    But to answer your question, I'd say no.

  17. #67
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    I had to m-w and wikipedia that post as well.
    <-- same

  18. #68
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Barrel of a gun? That would be to easy compared to what those dudes went through.

    But to answer your question, I'd say no.
    I really don't know what the 23th-century equivalent of grappling with wild beasts would be.

  19. #69
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    September 18, 2007
    Vital Signs

    Safety: In Stun Gun Training, Officer’s Spine Is Fractured

    By ERIC NAGOURNEY

    Advocates for the use of stun guns by police departments like to point to evidence that they are a generally safe way to subdue aggressive suspects.

    But they could probably find a better spokesman than an officer in North Carolina who volunteered to be shocked at a training class. The officer ended up in the emergency room with two spinal fractures.

    The incident, involving a Taser, is described online by The Annals of Emergency Medicine. The authors of the report say it is the sole case like it they could find.

    The officer was described as a healthy 38-year-old who volunteered to receive a standard five-second Taser discharge. The device usually fires two darts into its target.

    But in this case, to avoid puncturing the officer’s skin, the Taser charge was conveyed through two alligator clips, said an author of the report, James E. Winslow of Wake Forest University.

    Two other officers supported the volunteer as he was shocked, to make sure that he did not fall. At first, everything appeared normal, with the officer experiencing the usual pain and muscle contractions.

    But he continued to suffer severe back pain, and when an ambulance took him to a hospital, doctors found two fractured vertebrae. The fractures were caused by intense muscle contractions, the report said.

    Nine weeks later, the officer reported considerable continuing pain and told doctors that he had been able to return to work just part-time and at a desk job.

    Tasers are used by more than 11,000 law-enforcement agencies in the United States, and they are widely considered safer than other tools used by police officers, like pepper spray and nightsticks, the authors said.

    ( safer for whom? )

    “However,” they wrote, “conducted energy weapons are weapons and, like other weapons, are clearly capable of causing injuries.”

  20. #70
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Once thing I'm struggling with is that, no matter how much unnecessary force the cops used, once they approach you, you cannot resist. I'm assuming that if he did not resist, we would've not been tasered.

    If people condone that kind of behavior, society quickly goes down a very slippery slope.

    If you don't believe me, come and visit the land of the Pampas and see how policemen are treated here. As a society, we have gone down that slope and it not pretty.
    It is very difficult to justify the force used given the video evidence.

  21. #71
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    But come to think of it, it would be a cool premise for a movie.
    count me in as an executive producer.

  22. #72
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Judge has ordered him released.Click-click

  23. #73
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    It is very difficult to justify the force used given the video evidence.
    I can't watch the video from work.

    I will do so at home.

  24. #74
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Was he obnoxious, yes. Did he deserve to be forcibly removed, absolutely.

    To be tasered?! Absolutely not. ing pigs.

  25. #75
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Was he obnoxious, yes. Did he deserve to be forcibly removed, absolutely.

    To be tasered?! Absolutely not. ing pigs.
    We do live in a society which generally condones erring on the side of excessive force in order to suppress public disruption.

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