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Brent sure wasn't hesitant shooting the ball in the fist half and he looked really good. Hopefully he will take that mind set into the regular season
Prior to last years playoffs...he was the all time Spurs leader in post season 3 PCT...based on qualifiers...
And during the regular seasons he's taken as many threes as just about any guy on the team....and he's the one that gets left open the least.
People don't like him because they want him to have a scorer's mentality...and he's never had one.
You can't change things like that about players...Barry may end up finally being a jack it up guy...but he won't be a better player because of it. He'll just miss more shots and make fewer passes. He won't be playing his best game, and he won't be as good as he was in Seattle.
Brent sure wasn't hesitant shooting the ball in the fist half and he looked really good. Hopefully he will take that mind set into the regular season
Barry is great, when he's not running away from his shot. J/K
You can never have enough three point shooters on your bench, imo.
1. He was a starter in Seattle.
2. He was the starting point guard. He did get minutes at shooting guard, and spot minutes at small forward as needed, but he played predominately point.
3. He initiated the offense in Seattle, he called and directed the plays on the floor. He was also a focal point of their offense.
4. Seattle didn't have a dominant big. The Sonics had to rely on ball movement, movement without the basketball and perimeter passing setting up outside shooters. That style of play matched Brent's style pretty well.
5. Barry didn't have to concentrate on one on one defense as much in Seattle. He was actually pretty great at transition defense, and his team defense was quite decent. However the defensive side of things was never a strong suit of his, he was definitely an offense-first player.
6. In Seattle he wasn't nearly as timid because he didn't have to worry about being pulled from the game if he tried to thread a pass through that got batted down or took a quick three early in the shot clock when he saw some daylight instead of running the called play. As much as we seem to have a half-dozen people here with a direct line to Coach PopI've seen Brent get chewed out and subbed out after making an offensive play that Pop apparently didn't like more than once.
7. Tony doesn't pass.
There, 7 reasons why he shouldn't be putting up better numbers here than he did in Seattle.
What I love about people claiming he should be putting up better numbers in San Antonio than Seattle, is it just outs them as the idiots they are.
Well said.1. He was a starter in Seattle.
2. He was the starting point guard. He did get minutes at shooting guard, and spot minutes at small forward as needed, but he played predominately point.
3. He initiated the offense in Seattle, he called and directed the plays on the floor. He was also a focal point of their offense.
4. Seattle didn't have a dominant big. The Sonics had to rely on ball movement, movement without the basketball and perimeter passing setting up outside shooters. That style of play matched Brent's style pretty well.
5. Barry didn't have to concentrate on one on one defense as much in Seattle. He was actually pretty great at transition defense, and his team defense was quite decent. However the defensive side of things was never a strong suit of his, he was definitely an offense-first player.
6. In Seattle he wasn't nearly as timid because he didn't have to worry about being pulled from the game if he tried to thread a pass through that got batted down or took a quick three early in the shot clock when he saw some daylight instead of running the called play. As much as we seem to have a half-dozen people here with a direct line to Coach Pop
7. Tony doesn't pass.
There, 7 reasons why he shouldn't be putting up better numbers here than he did in Seattle.
Barry's contribution to SA, as I have said a number of times in this thread, is not measured in stats - it's in his hustle, his basketball smarts, and his momentum turning plays, whether they be 3s, passes or steals in transition.
Added to point 5. above, his transition D IS excellent. He quite often breaks up what looks to be a gimme layup in a 2-on-1 or a 3-on-2 fast break, as does Rob.
The beauty of our second team, besides Manu, is its tremendous hustle, and guys like Barry typify it.
Another thing to be mentioned is time played, in general. Barry was averaging around 33 minutes a game in his last years in Seattle, in a solid playing rotation. In San Antonio, that's been knocked down to about 20 minutes a game, in a more sporadic playing role. With about a third of his playing time being dropped, shouldn't you expect his scoring average to go down?1. He was a starter in Seattle.
2. He was the starting point guard. He did get minutes at shooting guard, and spot minutes at small forward as needed, but he played predominately point.
3. He initiated the offense in Seattle, he called and directed the plays on the floor. He was also a focal point of their offense.
4. Seattle didn't have a dominant big. The Sonics had to rely on ball movement, movement without the basketball and perimeter passing setting up outside shooters. That style of play matched Brent's style pretty well.
5. Barry didn't have to concentrate on one on one defense as much in Seattle. He was actually pretty great at transition defense, and his team defense was quite decent. However the defensive side of things was never a strong suit of his, he was definitely an offense-first player.
6. In Seattle he wasn't nearly as timid because he didn't have to worry about being pulled from the game if he tried to thread a pass through that got batted down or took a quick three early in the shot clock when he saw some daylight instead of running the called play. As much as we seem to have a half-dozen people here with a direct line to Coach Pop
7. Tony doesn't pass.
There, 7 reasons why he shouldn't be putting up better numbers here than he did in Seattle.
Year - - - - -Points per Minute (Minutes/Game)
01-02 - - - - 0.382 (37.6)
02-03 - - - - 0.312 (33.1)
03-04 - - - - 0.352 (31.6)
-traded to Spurs-
04-05 - - - - 0.345 (21.5)
05-06 - - - - 0.342 (17.0)
06-07 - - - - 0.389 (21.7)
If you look at his points per minute, he's been about equally as productive. In fact, last year was his most efficient year scoring wise that he's had since the turn of the century, but he still only got about 21 minutes a game.
Part of that is, admittedly, his fault for being unable to stick a spot in the rotation. But he was never expected to be the main cog here like he was in Seattle, and now everyone's disappointed because he's just filling a role.
The problem is the Spurs FO decided to pay him main cog money.
On a further note, I think part of the reason people don't like Brent Barry is the same reason some people miss Stephen Jackson.
Brent Barry is criticized for often "over-thinking", or passing up shots to try to make a better play. We all want him to let the guns sling, even though he is really more one of those High-IQ players, and he's trying (too hard, at times) to fit into a High-IQ team.
This is, obviously, a problem that Jax never had. He was a guy that wasn't afraid to let a three go on the fast break with nobody under the board. He was saved many times by the fact that he was a killer clutch shooter, but it was that organized chaos that helped spark that '03 team many times, and I think it's the sort of mentality people wish Brent Barry would have.
He seems to be letting it fly so far this year. Maybe he figures that if he's on his way out anyways, he might as well quit trying to impress and get his shots in.
. In Seattle he wasn't nearly as timid because he didn't have to worry about being pulled from the game if he tried to thread a pass through that got batted down or took a quick three early in the shot clock when he saw some daylight instead of running the called play. As much as we seem to have a half-dozen people here with a direct line to Coach Pop I've seen Brent get chewed out and subbed out after making an offensive play that Pop apparently didn't like more than once.
so its the best coach in basketball's fault.
Amazing...
He's therefore spending more time against the second unit than he was in Seattle, and when he's playing with the first unit, he's geting wide open looks thanks to playing with vastly better teammates. I understand that his minutes aren't close to what they were in Seattle, but his field goal percentage has dropped, and his assist and rebounding rates have dropped as well. Let's give him a pass on rebounds since the Spurs are probably a better rebounding team, but of his scoring, assists or field goal percentage, you'd expect ONE of them to go up when he came to San Antonio. There just isn't a logical way to explain how all three would go down.
Barry's last year in Seattle, AD started 71 games, and AD is a point guard. Before that Gary Payton was there for all but about the last 25 games when he was traded to Milwaukee. Kenny Anderson was also there for a time. Brent was not the starting point guard for any length of time.
See above. Focal points of offense draw defenders. Therefore Brent's scoring, or at least his field goal percentage should go up.
The Spurs rely on ball movement, movement without the basketball and perimeter passing, all keyed by a dominant post player. You don't take threes on the run, and Brent's three point percentage should be higher, not lower.
If he's an offense-first player, then he shouldn't be passing up shots.
The offensive play that Pop didn't like was passing up wide open shots in favor of questionable passes. In short: He gets pulled BECAUSE he's timid. If he's making bad passes instead of following the play, as you seem to suggest, that would be a reason for a coach to put his ass on the bench as well. Hardly the work of a starting point guard or the focal point of the offense.6. In Seattle he wasn't nearly as timid because he didn't have to worry about being pulled from the game if he tried to thread a pass through that got batted down or took a quick three early in the shot clock when he saw some daylight instead of running the called play. As much as we seem to have a half-dozen people here with a direct line to Coach Pop
Yet Barry's assist numbers went down rather than up.7. Tony doesn't pass.
Barry's one of my personal favorite players out there.
I shot free throws with him once when he was with the Sonics. B)
Does he really get a lot of wide open looks? From what I've seen, when he's on the floor he's the one player on the perimeter defenders tend to always stay home on.
99-00 SEA 0.463 FG% 0.411 3P%I understand that his minutes aren't close to what they were in Seattle, but his field goal percentage has dropped, and his assist and rebounding rates have dropped as well.
02-03 SEA 0.458 FG% 0.403 3P%
06-07 SAS 0.475 FG% 0.446 3P%
Sure, he shot over 50% a couple of seasons with the Sonics, but if you expect him to always shoot above 50% you might be expecting just a little too much from him.
Really? Going from a starter to not having a solid spot in the rotation, getting less minutes and getting less touches... None of those would seem like a logical explanation for a drop in stats to you?Let's give him a pass on rebounds since the Spurs are probably a better rebounding team, but of his scoring, assists or field goal percentage, you'd expect ONE of them to go up when he came to San Antonio. There just isn't a logical way to explain how all three would go down.
I think perhaps you've confused Games Started with Games Played? AD started 32 games for the Sonics in 03-04, coincidentally about the same amount of games Barry missed due to a couple of injuries. Brent started 53 games.Barry's last year in Seattle, AD started 71 games, and AD is a point guard.
28 games, which I believe saw Brent Barry start at Point Guard. Even when he was on the floor with GP, Barry ran a lot of point. But yes, Payton was the starting Point Guard before the trade.Before that Gary Payton was there for all but about the last 25 games when he was traded to Milwaukee.
OK.Kenny Anderson was also there for a time.
And...?
That assertion is incorrect.Brent was not the starting point guard for any length of time.
Ball movement draws defenders and leads to mismatches and open shooters. Also, I meant focal point as in initiating and being actively involved in the offensive sets, not necessarily chucking up shots every time he got his hands on the ball.Focal points of offense draw defenders. Therefore Brent's scoring, or at least his field goal percentage should go up.
Really? You're going to use the Spurs' Motion Offense to defend your position? Really?The Spurs rely on ball movement, movement without the basketball and perimeter passing, all keyed by a dominant post player.
I've actually seen him take a couple of threes on the run, albeit usually to beat the shot clock. Made a couple of absolutely ridiculous shots that way. No, you usually don't shoot a lot of threes on the run, which is fine, because Seattle wasn't a running team like the Steven Nash Suns, they just had a lot of movement in their half-court offense.You don't take threes on the run, and Brent's three point percentage should be higher, not lower.
I hope I don't blow any Homers' minds with this, but... passing is a part of the offense too. But hey, I'm with you, I wish Brent would jack up more shots.If he's an offense-first player, then he shouldn't be passing up shots.
Ah, so you have a direct line to Pop too, huh? Hey, do you think you could give him a call and ask him why Beno is still on the team? I was curious if it was a salary thing or if Beno had some incriminating pictures or something.The offensive play that Pop didn't like was passing up wide open shots in favor of questionable passes. In short: He gets pulled BECAUSE he's timid.
Yeah, good thing the big three average 0.0 TO's per game or they might find their asses riding pine.If he's making bad passes instead of following the play, as you seem to suggest, that would be a reason for a coach to put his ass on the bench as well.
Yeah, that's the true indication of a starting point guard, they never fail to complete a pass.Hardly the work of a starting point guard or the focal point of the offense.
Starting point guard to backup shooting guard with sporadic minutes, less minutes per game, less touches per game, on a team with less points per game. Actually, I shouldn't even bother responding to that one, just let it stand on it's own.Yet Barry's assist numbers went down rather than up.
Last season Barry was actually 4th on the Spurs in minutes played. He didn't play well in the playoffs because he was coming off his injury. I like this 2nd unit: Elson, Bonner, Barry, Udoka, Ginobili. That gives the Spurs 4 players who can hit the 3-pt at a high %. Ginobili or Barry could bring the ball down the court, and the Spurs would still have good size.
The game flows much more smoothly when Barry is out there. His mistakes are from not shooting enough. Finley's mistakes are from shooting every time he touches the ball, made worse by Pop telling him he needs to shoot even quicker.
Finley played great in the beginning of the playoffs but did fade as they went along. Brent is just steady. His lows are not as low, his highs are not as high. On the Spurs I would prefer to have steady. And again, like I said, he appreciates ball movement and the team game. If Finley wasn't a likable guy people would hate his guts for being a gunner that doesn't know when to stop. But Pop likes him because he has "balls", which is great but doesn't neccesarily translate to wins.
Thats exactly what I was thinking.
Barry played just under 1500 minutes last year. I saw a graph of how well Pop manages regular season minutes versus D'Antoni who tires out his stars.
Yeah, I like that unit too. We're deep this year, deeper than I can remember, at every position except the point, and two of the swings can cover that.
And you forget Vaughn who is quite handy now that he has learned the system and found a corner jumper. And Horry who will come out of retirement around April...
Well said, absolutely spot on.
Good, then you can explain it to me. Let's hear how the Sonics' offense allows more open shots for three point shooters than the Spurs' offense.
he was garbage in the postseason
he deserves it
his worst series was vs Cleveland and that was coming off a back injury against Utah.Finley played great in the beginning of the playoffs but did fade as they went along
If barry can use the injured excuse, Finley sure as can.
Also, Pop DEMANDS Barry shoot more, he just "doesn't want to"
for some ed up reason.
Watch how this team finds itself again in the weeks after Barry gets back.
He is very important in the scheme of things.
Nah, old thread from earlier this season, brought it back because I think we're currently seeing just what Brent means to this team.
Barry is a role player and as such, he will not be scoring 20 pts a night or taking over games. He comes in to play a particular role when needed. I do think that before the injury, Barry was a huge asset to our team. He moves the ball well, has good court vision, can get hot from the 3pt line, and hustles when he is on the court. When he and Manu play together, the passing game gets elevated to another level. I know a lot of people don't like Barry, but he brings things to the table that make our team better. He may not be perfect, but he understands his role.
why the hate on barry? he's on the roster for one thing only and that is to spread to floor so that duncan, manu and tony could operate more freely. he does that and he does that well. nuff sed.
Point = missed.
The team is lacking crisp ball movement and cohesion right now - those are two things Barry brings a lot of (along with hustle and 3-pt shooting) although he doesn't get much credit for it.
This team will look a lot better when he's back.
Isn't barry the only white guy that won the dunk contest?
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