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If Shaq was smart he wouldn't demand over 30 million a season himself......and we're talking Kobe now...you put Manu as main threat on a team they don't make the playoffs.
Please by all means Havoc give us your top 5
If Shaq was smart he wouldn't demand over 30 million a season himself......and we're talking Kobe now...you put Manu as main threat on a team they don't make the playoffs.
It's sad too see how much some fans, brainwashed by the mercantile hype, can't see the whole picture.
At the end of the day, there is only ONE thing that counts. It has nothing to do with individual stats, honnors, fantasy league, endorsements, fame, jersey selling or so called greatness.
Over the past seven years, no basketball player in the world has won more games/championships/medals than Manu.
Coincidence?
Pure luck?
My ass!
Manu Ginobili is a winner.
Of course he has worked a lot, developing his skills, physical abilities, comprehension of the game... but to be a winner you got to have something more, a combination of the education you received and the personality you've developed. You have IT, or not.
I know for sure that Manu has IT, as much as Tim has IT too.
I don't know about Kobe.
That's why I wouldn't do that trade.
Not questioning Manu as a winner....but he's been part of some great organizations....look at Horry....same thing. Good players in greater situations. The question would you trade Manu straight up for Kobe....you wouldn't and the Lakers would never either, or any other sane GM in the league.
Jenn, Liz, Shannon, Erin, and Barkley. Wade wanted in but I wouldn't let him.
Dang.. I don't like Kobe and even I don't have this much blind hate for him. The gm he plays for traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown.. The guy wouldn't even trade Bynum to get him Kidd or Jermaine. Their GM sucks.. I hate Kobe like the next guy but the guy has a pretty good reason to complain. They are wasting his prime years because they have a gm has no idea what he's doing. I mean look at who they have started around kobe this year (besides odom.. who is the same player he was in year one) : Fisher, Radmonovic, Turiaf, Bynum, Walton, Mihm, and Kwame. Now your seriously going to hold it against Kobe that he didn't win a ring with group. Give me a ing break.
And the Kobe/ Shaq had more to do with the fact Buss didn't want to give Shaq a huge extention then it does anything you read about. For once don't believe everything your lead to believe.
Yeah, you're right. You know more about the Lakers than Magic Johnson, whom I've just quoted on the last page doing little else but saying that it was all Kobe's fault. He said it on national TV, even. But yeah, YOU know what really happened, because you have a webcam set up in all those closed-door meetings.
If Magic was really a huge influence why didn't he step in and mend fences....after that quote he basically said the Lakers need to make a decision within 2 weeks on trading Kobe...we'll it's been over a month....Magic while a great player, has no say in the Lakers FO.
Funny from a fan of a team who Manu dismantled singlehandedly. Not so much like Kobe and his Lakers stars who were dismantled by your team. You can't even compare.
Allen Iverson had 51 in a loss to the Lakers, and makes Kobe Bryant look like the guy who has mastered working with teammates. Mark Kiszla of the Denver Post: "Anybody could see the Los Angeles Lakers beat the Nuggets 111-107 Wednesday night. But what was revealed is that not all Hall of Fame players are created equal. There is great, which Iverson will be, forever and always. And there is transcendent, which makes Bryant a basketball god on the order of Magic, Oscar and Wilt. What went down in the Pepsi Center was far more than two superstars in top form, because this was an enduring lesson in basketball history, a game that should be studied and replayed in the minds of everyone who loves the sport and wants to understand its essence."
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/...y-Bullets.html
Whoa, wait. When did I say he was an influence? I said he had knowledge of what went down. I didn't state that he was a determining factor in the Kobe-Shaq feud.
But of course, these posters on the Spurstalk forums apparently know more than Magic does about the what and the why of Shaq going to Miami.
Please allow me to refresh your mind. It was Kobe who helped dismantle his own team due to egos. He just couldn't handle not being MVP, etc, etc, etc. We all know the rest.
Manu on the other hand, being a star with more hardware than Kobe, steps aside and goes to the bench just so his team can win Pop-style.
Now tell me which one is best. Nuff said. Keep smoking.
the lakers would do anything to get rid of a cancer and get a winner,believe me.
Ah! Kiszla! A truly knowledgeable fan when it comes to the NBA. This is the same guy who said that the Spurs were done after the first game of the playoffs last year. Not that they played a good game and lost, but that they had NO CHANCE OF WINNING THE LE. Because a truly intelligent basketball fan knows that the first game of the first series (where many starters are playing again for the first time in a week or two) is indicative of the rest of the post-season.
Yes. He's definitely someone who knows what he's talking about.
Better Offence
Better Defense
Look guys...there's a reason why Kobe is Kobe and Manu is Manu.....they don't belong in the same sentence when comparing players. I'm not disparaging Manu's accomplishments and I would love him to play on the Lakers. But please let's get some perspective. When Kobe is in the HOF and regarded as a top 3 player of all time we can all tell our grandchildren that we got to witness greatness and even ed about it from time to time....
In the NBA, there can be only one king.
You can have LeBron James or Kevin Garnett.
Before the game, Nuggets coach George Karl testified that Bryant is one of the top three basketball talents in the history of basketball.
On a night when Iverson scored 51, we saw proof that Kobe is the king.
Link: http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_7646944
What the heck do you expect him to say? "Oh well Buss doesn't want to pay fat ass all that money cause Shaqs game is going down the crapper pretty quick and we don't want to be tied up like Miami is right now with that huge ass contract."Yeah, you're right. You know more about the Lakers than Magic Johnson, whom I've just quoted on the last page doing little else but saying that it was all Kobe's fault. He said it on national TV, even. But yeah, YOU know what really happened, because you have a webcam set up in all those closed-door meetings.
"Earlier in the day, Bryant said Buss masterminded the trade of Shaquille O'Neal -- and Shaq later confirmed Kobe's account.
The issues between Bryant and the Lakers have reached a boil, beginning with Bryant voicing his displeasure with the club's direction, his suggestion that Jerry West should return to fix things, West's statement that he has no intention of undermining GM/good friend Mitch Kupchak, and, unrelated but bizarre in its timing, Buss' arrest early Tuesday for investigation of driving under the influence of alcohol.
Bryant was left "beyond furious" by a report in Tuesday's Los Angeles Times that read, "as a Lakers insider notes, it was Bryant's insistence on getting away from Shaquille O'Neal that got them in this mess."
O'Neal was traded to the Miami Heat after the 2003-04 season, and the long-held belief has been that the deteriorating relationship between O'Neal and Bryant was a factor in O'Neal's departure.
In the hours after Kobe Bryant made his trade request, ESPN.com users tried thousands of deals in the ESPN.com Trade Machine.
In response to the Times' story, Bryant, interviewed by Smith for a Philadelphia Inquirer column, said Buss "called a meeting with me after he spoke with Jim Gray [of ESPN] to talk with him about Shaq's future in the middle of the 2004 season.
"He met with me at the Four Seasons Hotel here [in Newport Beach, Calif.] across from Fashion Island, which is now the Island Hotel," Bryant told Smith. "I went up to his penthouse suite. [Buss] looks me dead in the face and says: 'Kobe, I am not going to re-sign Shaq. I am not about to pay him $30 million a year or $80 million over three years. No way in . I feel like he's getting older. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to pay that money to him when I can get value for him right now rather than wait.
"This is my decision. It's independent of you. My mind is made up. It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period.'"
"Dr. Buss said that," Bryant told Smith. "And I haven't said anything for years because I've always felt like folks were just looking to create controversy. Now I know. I realize what extent [the Lakers] will go to, to cover themselves."
Reached afterward, O'Neal told Smith that he believed his former teammate to be beyond reproach.
"I believe Kobe 100 percent," O'Neal said when reached in Los Angeles. "Absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind Kobe is telling the truth. I believe him a thousand percent.
"I would have respected Dr. Buss more as a man if he would have told me that himself, because I know he said it. But he didn't [tell me]. He never said a damn word to me."
Now are you telling me Oneal is lying.. nooooo you couldn't know more about the situation then he does could you? I mean you don't have a we cam set up behind all closed door meetings do you?
I was going to stay out of this circlemanujerk until I read that one.
Tied after 6.75 games = "dismantled"? Oh yah...totally
Manu was a PITA, for sure, but don't you think maybe a little credit should go to Duncan? Parker? Horry? Bruce ing BOWEN? POPOVICH? Naw, all them scrubs phoned it in...Manu carried them on his back for 4 games out of 7....
Manu will be in the HOF as one of the best IntŽl players ever in the NBA.
Read Alain's quote a few posts back,and youŽll see the whole picture.
Don't know about that. I can't imagine watching a Kobe's video with my grandchildren. I can imagine showing them a Manu's video and telling them that was the only player who won everything all over the planet. Kobe's history of ing would undermine my efforts greatly.
If I tell you now that I don't think Kobe will ever win another ring in his career, would you believe? would you think I'm too far off?
Hey I made my point! don't you think??? You need to win 4 out of 7 to win the series.. .there you go. End of the story. Thanks for your time.
I was going to stay out of this circlemanujerk until I read that one.
Tied after 6.75 games = "dismantled"? Oh yah...totally
Manu was a PITA, for sure, but don't you think maybe a little credit should go to Duncan? Parker? Horry? Bruce ing BOWEN? POPOVICH? Naw, all them scrubs phoned it in...Manu carried them on his back for 4 games out of 7....
Does the olympic gold count that Kobe will win this summer ??
And Manu on his greatest day on earth couldn't D up like Kobe can. Not even close.
If this trade scenario was possible and it isn't, then it would be thanks for the memories Manu.....
If your point was that Duncan, Parker, Bowen, Horry and Barry are scrubs, then sure, you made it.
I wouldnŽt say that until the gold medal ceremony
Seriusly,I know the US team is great,but...games have to be played yet,and US haven't faced the real Argie Team or Spain yet.
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