Does Ron Paul have a chance?

[smeagol]

Smeagol does'nt know anything. Now, children go without healthcare thanks to Bush.

I know where apostrophes go.

So children had free healthcare in the 1990s?

[whottt]

If smeagol can get boutons or Nbadan to come in here and defend the good ole' US of A I think he deserves a Spur.


Actually...I'm not that surprised he got the V-crew and Manny in here to do it as these guys are pretty open minded and not necessarily hardwired to the right or the left like most people....they are more about disliking the current situation than anything else. The V-crew are actually kind of old school in their political views...Still...it feels good to see to many people that are extremely critical of the country these days rallying to it's defense against the subversive influence of the one known as smeagol



FWIW...smeagol is not a fascist, well, no more so than any other Argie, he wants to feed the world's poor and thinks America(and Argentina) should stay the out of the World's business(except wehn it comes to Argentina and trade).


...the problem is that smeagol is from a country that is the child of one of the most politically schizophrenic countries in history, and inherited that trait...there's no such thing as moderate Argie from the America pov...they are an extremely polarized people politically...which usually ends up in their electing extremist and corrupt leadership. Something America inches closer and closer to doing with each passing year I might add...there are very few moderate candidates these days, and plenty of extremists...add in the fact that Independent extremists are starting to make headway, to split up the voting blocks, and weaken the moderate stance even more...and the day America sees it's first true extremist in the Industrial Age...is growing with each passing day.


smeagol....what you see in America is called stability and moderation...


It's a system that makes it impossible for elected leadership to say, , half the population....no matter how badly they want to do so. That's not the case in your country...you guys continually elected leaders that say, , half the population.


You come from a country that makes extreme left rigth political swings every 20 years or so.....you are used to seeing extreme radical change as a result of change of leadership....and so Americas more subtle change seems to be one that is almost non-existent to you.

As I said earlier...that's called stability, and it's why our country is able to do more than just be in a continual state of reversing the previous leaderships policies...like lead the free world, and be it's economic powerhouse.


That's what moderation can do you for you. That's what can happen when you don't have 25 different major political parties...and that's what you can do with a large population that is willing to swing to the left, or the right, from the middle, depending on the political climate of the World and the countries needs.




IT's that whole peaceful transfer of power thing....it's like the Jay Novacek of the US political system...never gets the credit it deserves...but once it's gone, so is America as we know it. Something to remember every time that spark of hatred for Bush ignites in your stomach...


Hatred is still hatred...no matter how deserving the target, and if you are permanently hardwired to the right or to the left...you are not an openminded person. IF you are continually on the right or the left, you are wrong 50% of the time. No matter how much you may think otherwise.

[smeagol]

Thanks for agreeing with me, whottt

[Cant_Be_Faded]

When will anyone in this forum realize that once senor smeagol says something regarding the United States of America, it is a finished conversation. He is an expert at everything USA. From its history, culture, to today's current politics and conspiracies. You name it, if it involved the USA, smeagol will own you on it and nail you.
This is exactly why i want to nuke argentina. To imagine an entire country of smeagols just flat out scares me.

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is but smeagol you got ruined ugly style

[smeagol]

I don't know what it is but smeagol you got ruined ugly style

Your opinion is as worthless as one from LMB

[whottt]

Thanks for agreeing with me, whottt

I don't agree with you really. The USA changes...it's just you are used to complete political spectrum swings...from straight up socialism, to straight up fascism...


The USA doesn't swing as much...but it does change substantially...our foreign policy for example...

We would not be in Iraq right now if Clinton or Gore were President...I'd say that's a pretty substantial change....seeing as how that is the top international political issue in the world.

[mookie2001]

smeagol you got bloadded

[Ignignokt]

I don't agree with you really. The USA changes...it's just you are used to complete political spectrum swings...from straight up socialism, to straight up fascism...


The USA doesn't swing as much...but it does change substantially...our foreign policy for example...

We would not be in Iraq right now if Clinton or Gore were President...I'd say that's a pretty substantial change....seeing as how that is the top international political issue in the world.

but smeag's point, was how has it if affected one personally.

unless you're a soldier, one should prove of how one's life has changed.

[MannyIsGod]

@ Whottt saying just because we don't have cultural seizures each time an election is held doesn't mean we don't experience change and smeagol thinking Whottt was agreeing with him. Classic.

I'll just list a few of the changes I have experienced. And I asure you that all of these with the acception of anything poker related have touched the lives of millions of citizens and many have touched the lives of people all across the globe.

-Anything having to do with Iraq.
-the amount of taxes I pay
-the amount of student financial aid I am able (or in this case unable) to get
-the ease (or difficulty rather) of how I am able to conduct my line of work

And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head and without even getting into the disaterous forgien policy we've seen over the past 8 years.

[MannyIsGod]

but smeag's point, was how has it if affected one personally.

unless you're a soldier, one should prove of how one's life has changed.

Its re ed to think that what happens to the military doesn't touch the lives of almost every single American in some way shape or form in a military conflict this large. And thats simply one angle of looking at how the government has affected lives in this country.

[MannyIsGod]

Just look at lists of legislation passed during this presidency. And look at lists that didn't pass. You don't think these laws enact change? You think they don't effect people across this country?

[smeagol]

smeagol you got bloadded

Thanks for adding so much value

[Ignignokt]

@ Whottt saying just because we don't have cultural seizures each time an election is held doesn't mean we don't experience change and smeagol thinking Whottt was agreeing with him. Classic.

I'll just list a few of the changes I have experienced. And I asure you that all of these with the acception of anything poker related have touched the lives of millions of citizens and many have touched the lives of people all across the globe.

-Anything having to do with Iraq.
Unless you have a family member serving, a freind or yourself, you have not been impacted in that way.

-the amount of taxes I pay

For what? on the federal level where bush has a say, we pay less income taxes than the the clinton years.


-the amount of student financial aid I am able (or in this case unable) to get.

That has all to do with your state passing the 135 credit hour vote, what does the president of the United states have to do with you not being able to finish all the classes you take, and not making up your mind on your major?

-the ease (or difficulty rather) of how I am able to conduct my line of work.

what is your line of work, instead of being vague and how did the administration make it harder for you?, you made the conclusion that your life has been harder, the burden is on you. Unless you want us to take your assumptions on faith?

And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head and without even getting into the disaterous forgien policy we've seen over the past 8 years.

you did mention the foreign policy aspect of it. That was your first point. SO you really haven't supported your declarations that you've had it harder.

[Ignignokt]

Its re ed to think that what happens to the military doesn't touch the lives of almost every single American in some way shape or form in a military conflict this large. And thats simply one angle of looking at how the government has affected lives in this country.

Funny how i'd expect you to say that what happen in Mogadishu didn't affect you, otherwise if you said it didn't you'd contradict your main point.

ANd if you want to compare numbers and say "well mogadishu was only 20 casualties, it doesn't amount to 2,000".

That argument would have no legs seeing as 2000 casualties is very small for a 4 yr war.

Santa Anna lost that amount at the alamo.

Our military weakness in mogadishu was cited by osama as being the rallying cry for his terrorist network to do the task.

, the war on terror was being planned half way into the Clinton administration, and both administrations did nothing to stop it.

perspective please.

[MannyIsGod]

Why are you turning this into a Bush is better than Clinton thing or vice versa? Thats all subjective and so open to judgement that its not even funny, but to argue that things are not different is entirely independent of whether or not you feel they are better.

I'm not here to argue whether or not they would be better with Gore/Kerry/anyone else or Bush or whether or not they will be better in the future on any particular candidate. What I am saying is that there is a large and pronounced difference either way you go.

Unless you have a family member serving, a freind or yourself, you have not been impacted in that way.

Really? So if you employ someone who has been called up then you aren't affected? So if your tax dollars are being spent in Iraq you're not effected? So if want to travel to certain places abroad you're not affected? Do I need to go on? You're view on this is really narrow.

For what? on the federal level where bush has a say, we pay less income taxes than the the clinton years.

Ok? And less =! different? Because I thought it did.

That has all to do with your state passing the 135 credit hour vote, what does the president of the United states have to do with you not being able to finish all the classes you take, and not making up your mind on your major?

You should do some research into the Bush administration and Pell Grants.

what is your line of work, instead of being vague and how did the administration make it harder for you?, you made the conclusion that your life has been harder, the burden is on you. Unless you want us to take your assumptions on faith?

Many people here know what I do. If you don't, I don't care. Its well do ented on this board how this has become more difficult for me. @ the burden is on me. Not if I don't give a whether or not you believe me or not.

you did mention the foreign policy aspect of it. That was your first point. SO you really haven't supported your declarations that you've had it harder.

No, I mentioned Iraq. You think the State Dept should be renamed the "All We Deal With Is Iraq Dept"? I'm not sure Condi wants the le of Secretary of "All I Deal With Is Iraq". Foreign policy involves a load more than just Iraq even if Iraq is a large(est) portion of it right now.

As for your next post, like I said I'm not sure why you're sitting there turning this into a Clinton<Bush argument when the context of the post prior to yours were no where near that.

[spurster]

To me, the following are the key issues in this election:

Iraq (and how to deal with terrorism in general)
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration

I think I might agree with Ron Paul on one of these issues.

[johngateswhiteley]

Be my guest.

I was in the States during the latter Clinton years and most of the Bush administration. I saw no major differences, as many of other Americans working around me.

My claim is that it does not change for the majorty of Americans.

Maybe you are part of the minority.

i basically agree, i don't think much changes. some small things here and there, but nothing that isn't easy to adapt to. i can't imagine most people adjust their cruise control....which is sad really and whats so frustrating, imo. i'd love change.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

To me, the following are the key issues in this election:

Iraq (and how to deal with terrorism in general)
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration

I think I might agree with Ron Paul on one of these issues.

global warming? the "y2k" of the times. global warming is nothing but a globalist ploy to get more taxes out of you. please don't just follow the crowd on this "issue".

[Ignignokt]

Why are you turning this into a Bush is better than Clinton thing or vice versa? Thats all subjective and so open to judgement that its not even funny, but to argue that things are not different is entirely independent of whether or not you feel they are better.

I wasn't turning it into a bush vs clinton thing, show me where i said bush was better than clinton. If anything that would dissuade my argument.

I'm not here to argue whether or not they would be better with Gore/Kerry/anyone else or Bush or whether or not they will be better in the future on any particular candidate. What I am saying is that there is a large and pronounced difference either way you go.

I get it, because MannyisGod says so. Good logic!

Really? So if you employ someone who has been called up then you aren't affected? So if your tax dollars are being spent in Iraq you're not effected? So if want to travel to certain places abroad you're not affected? Do I need to go on? You're view on this is really narrow.

Your tax dollars will be spent on something else regardless. Your taxes haven't been raised, so it's not as if you're spending new taxes on the war.



Ok? And less =! different? Because I thought it did.



You should do some research into the Bush administration and Pell Grants.

He's raising the pell grant max.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020101866.html



Many people here know what I do. If you don't, I don't care. Its well do ented on this board how this has become more difficult for me. @ the burden is on me. Not if I don't give a whether or not you believe me or not.

That's good, you shouldn't care if you throw out baseless claims which you failed to back up and get called for it. But you did. And now you're expressing anger at smeagol and i.

But then again you don't care. You've been talking as if you hold the truth and if you say so it must be. You must have a huge ego to expect everyone to back up what they say yet expect everyone to take your claims at face value.

Hey guess what? happens wether Bush CLinton Kerry or Gore are in office. Stop blaming administrations for your troubles. After all that's so un libertarian of you.



No, I mentioned Iraq. You think the State Dept should be renamed the "All We Deal With Is Iraq Dept"? I'm not sure Condi wants the le of Secretary of "All I Deal With Is Iraq". Foreign policy involves a load more than just Iraq even if Iraq is a large(est) portion of it right now.

Well you only mentioned iraq, and didn't even want to mention what of his foreign policy other than Iraq, personally affected you. Don't blame me. I just asked you to elaborate.

As for your next post, like I said I'm not sure why you're sitting there turning this into a Clinton<Bush argument when the context of the post prior to yours were no where near that.

I actually equated bush to clinton, and said both did nothing to stop 911 in that post. Sorry you hate comprehending the opponent in the debate while expecting him to take your word at face value without backup.

[Ignignokt]

If bush wasn't in office and gore was, Manny would be paying those IRaq tax dollars towards bull global warming agenda.

Same money going towards what manny considers to be fruitless causes. And at the end of the day, he still won't be able to tip the pizza delivery guy.

[Xylus]

But does Ron Paul have a chance?

[01Snake]

I haven't really paid much attention to any of the candidates yet but I found this at another site and thought it was interesting.


Ron Paul is staunchly pro-life, which some of you agree with and some don't.

What you might not realize is that the bill he champions (authored and constantly pushes), HR 300 and its variants, would roll back ALL federal court decisions on sexual practices.

You can cheer for the "no gay marriage" and abortion implications of this, but some of you might be disappointed to find that ALL forms of birth control would once again become illegal (in many states).

Ron Paul seems to think that's ok.

[smeagol]

@ Whottt saying just because we don't have cultural seizures each time an election is held doesn't mean we don't experience change and smeagol thinking Whottt was agreeing with him. Classic.

lol @ manny thinking he is taking a crack at me by adding the word "Classic" to his quote, when in fact I do agree with everything whottt said on his long post, because it is exactly what I had in mind when I said it does not matter who wins the US Presidential election given that there is no substantial change for the common citizen.

I'll just list a few of the changes I have experienced. And I asure you that all of these with the acception of anything poker related have touched the lives of millions of citizens and many have touched the lives of people all across the globe.

Ok. Let's see.

-Anything having to do with Iraq.

And this has affected you how? You have to take your shoes off at airports? There is extra security to go through when entering a federal building?

-the amount of taxes I pay

Percentagewise, how much have they changed?

-the amount of student financial aid I am able (or in this case unable) to get

Is this Federal governemnt related? How has it changed?

-the ease (or difficulty rather) of how I am able to conduct my line of work

???

Please expand . . .

And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head and without even getting into the disaterous forgien policy we've seen over the past 8 years.

The disastrous foreign policy actually affects much more people who leave overseas than it does Americans. Try to come up with a different example.

Bottom line, manny, I have to agree with whottt and with an MB post on some other thread: all some Americans do is all they long and have no clue how good they have it.

As I said before, my "regardless which candidate wins, little changes" was a compliment to the US economic and political systems. Moderation and stability sums it up. But you, and the idiots from the V crowd, took it the wrong way.

[smeagol]

I haven't really paid much attention to any of the candidates yet but I found this at another site and thought it was interesting.


Ron Paul is staunchly pro-life, which some of you agree with and some don't.

What you might not realize is that the bill he champions (authored and constantly pushes), HR 300 and its variants, would roll back ALL federal court decisions on sexual practices.

You can cheer for the "no gay marriage" and abortion implications of this, but some of you might be disappointed to find that ALL forms of birth control would once again become illegal (in many states).

Ron Paul seems to think that's ok.

Now that is funny!