Youtube: Shaq Video Clips from Nov. 7th @ Spurs

[FromWayDowntown]

This is the same Phoenix medical staff that couldn't figure out that Nash would need s ches to stop the bleeding on his nose during last year's playoffs?

I'm not saying that they can't rehabilitate Shaq, but I'm somewhat skeptical about the idea that they're going to find some miracle cure that will morph Shaq into something he hasn't been in years. If Shaq finds the fountain of youth in Phoenix, it will be the result of him finding a motivation to play at a higher level. I don't think the medical staff will have a great deal to do with it (though I'm sure they'll get crazy credit if this works out).

As for the clip, the thing that stands out to me is how little the Spurs doubled Shaq on those catches. The doubles came mostly when he was fronted by Elson and the ball went over the top, which is to be expected if you're going to front a big guy. Beyond that, Pop seemed content to play Oberto/Elson/Duncan on Shaq without help (for the most part) and to use fouls to limit easy looks. The lack of doubles and the fact that Duncan spent some time defending Shaq without help early in that game might be illustrative of how far Shaq had fallen by the early stages of this season.

That's not just some random observation, I think. It's significant because D'Antoni is convinced (based on things I've heard him say on radio) that Shaq will still demand the double-team in the half court and will make the Suns 1-4 screen and roll all the more difficult to defend. If teams can effectively play Shaq without the double (and the Spurs did in that first game) that portion of Shaq's influence is diminished.

I'll also be interested to see how Shaq rebounds with the Suns -- in the playoffs, Shaq hasn't averaged 10 rpg in a playoff year since 2004. Marion has averaged more than 10 boards per game for each of the last 4 years and had averaged 11 or more boards per game from 2003 through 2006. In fact, Marion's defensive boards per game during that time is higher than Shaq's rebounds per game. Some of that is minutes, to be fair, but a lot of it is athleticism.

I'm not saying that Shaq won't have a positive impact for the Suns, just that I'm going to be curious if Shaq can suddenly reverse the historical downward trends with some renewed motivation or if the downward trends have been the inescapable consequence of a body that is breaking down from having played nearly 45,000 NBA minutes.

[T Park]

If you're going to change your mind, perhaps you shouldn't have opened your mouth so widely in the first place? I have no problem with someone reassessing the situation. However, as vehemently as you were calling Shaq out, you're now that afraid of him?

Dude. John Kerry didn't flip flop that much last election.

Yeah he did.

[T Park]

Don't listen to TPark, he wil tell you any he wants and the next day he will talk diferently, and then the day after that day he will start to talk that old again.

day1
Shaq is old
day2
Shaq is not old

day1
Shaq is fat
day2
Shaq is not fat

day1
TPark talks with sense
day2
Tpark talks with no sense






MAKE UP YOUR MIND FELLA !!1

STFU and go back in your hole.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

This is the same Phoenix medical staff that couldn't figure out that Nash would need s ches to stop the bleeding on his nose during last year's playoffs?

I'm not saying that they can't rehabilitate Shaq, but I'm somewhat skeptical about the idea that they're going to find some miracle cure that will morph Shaq into something he hasn't been in years. If Shaq finds the fountain of youth in Phoenix, it will be the result of him finding a motivation to play at a higher level. I don't think the medical staff will have a great deal to do with it (though I'm sure they'll get crazy credit if this works out).

As for the clip, the thing that stands out to me is how little the Spurs doubled Shaq on those catches. The doubles came mostly when he was fronted by Elson and the ball went over the top, which is to be expected if you're going to front a big guy. Beyond that, Pop seemed content to play Oberto/Elson/Duncan on Shaq without help (for the most part) and to use fouls to limit easy looks. The lack of doubles and the fact that Duncan spent some time defending Shaq without help early in that game might be illustrative of how far Shaq had fallen by the early stages of this season.

That's not just some random observation, I think. It's significant because D'Antoni is convinced (based on things I've heard him say on radio) that Shaq will still demand the double-team in the half court and will make the Suns 1-4 screen and roll all the more difficult to defend. If teams can effectively play Shaq without the double (and the Spurs did in that first game) that portion of Shaq's influence is diminished.

I'll also be interested to see how Shaq rebounds with the Suns -- in the playoffs, Shaq hasn't averaged 10 rpg in a playoff year since 2004. Marion has averaged more than 10 boards per game for each of the last 4 years and had averaged 11 or more boards per game from 2003 through 2006. In fact, Marion's defensive boards per game during that time is higher than Shaq's rebounds per game. Some of that is minutes, to be fair, but a lot of it is athleticism.

I'm not saying that Shaq won't have a positive impact for the Suns, just that I'm going to be curious if Shaq can suddenly reverse the historical downward trends with some renewed motivation or if the downward trends have been the inescapable consequence of a body that is breaking down from having played nearly 45,000 NBA minutes.

[polandprzem]

STFU and go back in your hole.

THERE YOU GO ...


Next time I will think twice to call somebody a 'fella'

[T Park]

This is also the same medical staff that rushed back Amare back early at the end of the season 2 years ago and he had to go back and have re-surgry on his knee

I thought it was a cleanout procedure done on his other knee.

[T Park]

Next time I will think twice to call somebody a 'fella'

Prob best you drop that all together there polly.

[polandprzem]

OKAY thanks for advice

I knew I could count on you

[Roxsfan]

Shaq is a s of his former self.

And by s I mean HE ING SUCKS MONKEY NOW COMPARED TO HIS LA DAYS. I WOULD POST UP SHAQ, RIGHT NOW, SPURS FANS NEED TO STOP TING THEIR PANTS IN TERROR. SURE THE MAN ED THE SPURS 10 DIFFERENT WAYS FROM SUNDAY BUT THAT WAS WHEN HE WAS GOOD.

the same can be said about Timoldy Duncan.

[T Park]

Duncan is a s of his former self?

Yeah ok....

[Roxsfan]

Duncan is a s of his former self?

Yeah ok....

Tim sucks compared to just 3 yrs ago. He is timid against Yao, lazy on D, whines on every call, stats on a rapid decline, half the forum here calls him out consistently for playing without passion or drive...........

[T Park]

You should shut up while your ahead troll.

[sabar]

Stats on a rapid decline? You're looking at the wrong stat sheet pal.

[Roxsfan]

You should shut up while your ahead troll.

great comeback

TIM=OLD, he'll fit in going head to head with shaq

[baseline bum]

Wow, this thread has become a worthless pissing contest.

Addressing the original topic, Shaq looks like crap in that video. He's missing gimmes that he used to just rise up and flush, because his athleticism and agility is shot. Also, he can't be milked in the post anymore either. There's no way he's in the kind of shape to fight for position and through defenders every possession like he did in his prime.

Shaq always looks tired in the second half. You dump it to him on the block a lot in the first, and he's going to be useless after halftime. You forget about him in the first, and he gets lazy and doesn't give much effort in the second.

I'm no Marion fan, but he was a great option on the break that's now gone. You have to slow the game down, and Amare is less dangerous. Even worse, Marion's a far superior defender and a bit better rebounder than O'Neal. I just don't see how this trade is such a slam dunk for the Suns. I would have been very concerned had this deal happened in the summer, but now it's obvious what kind of shape Shaq's in, what his body is capable of letting him do, and what to expect from him the rest of the way. I can't see how he's going to even be in the league after next season.

[marini martini]

Tim sucks compared to just 3 yrs ago. He is timid against Yao, lazy on D, whines on every call, stats on a rapid decline, half the forum here calls him out consistently for playing without passion or drive...........

Look who the your favorite team is. Donkey ass

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Tim sucks compared to just 3 yrs ago. He is timid against Yao, lazy on D, whines on every call, stats on a rapid decline, half the forum here calls him out consistently for playing without passion or drive...........

Get outta here. When's the last time you checked this forum? In November?

[Roxsfan]

Look who the your favorite team is. Donkey ass

[Roxsfan]

Get outta here. When's the last time you checked this forum? In November?

daily

[mavs>spurs2]

Shaq will get 14 points per game..give or take but so did Marion..he is bigger liability on defense but you somehow believe that a 36 year old shaq is going to scare Parker and Manu from driving the lane..nice try!

Dude a 50 year old Shaq would deter small guards from driving the lane..if Shaq hit one of them very hard at all he could easily end their career right then and there.

[timvp]

First Half video clips of Shaq against San Antonio on Nov. 7th, 2007.

Nice job on the production

I don't know how a Spurs fan can watch that and be happy Shaq is in PHX. He got the exact post position he wanted in every clip. Literally. Every time up the floor the Spurs were helpless in keeping him off his spots.

He might not have the athleticism of the nimbleness that he used to have but he still has the strength. Oberto, Elson and Horry can't guard Shaq. Duncan does a decent job but you don't want that because Shaq can still get anyone in foul trouble.

And that video, if Shaq was just 10% more spry he would have killed the Spurs. I've seen flashes of Shaq this season where he can still finish well at the rim. From where Shaq catches the ball against Oberto and Elson, it doesn't exactly take a lot of skill or athleticism to either finish or draw a foul.

A good video to take a look at would be Spurs vs. Heat in this preseason. Yeah, it was a preseason game but Shaq dominated against the Spurs' starters. Here's the play by play:

(12:00) Jump Ball O'Neal vs Duncan
11:41 Wright Jump Shot: Missed
Oberto Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 11:39
Parker Turnover:Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Williams (1 ST) 11:33
11:29 Wright Layup Shot: Missed
Duncan Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 11:27
Parker Layup Shot: Missed Block: O'Neal (1 BLK) 11:11
11:08 Haslem Rebound (Off:0 Def:1)
11:01
[MIA 2-0] Haslem Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Williams (1 AST)
10:47 Hardaway Foul:Personal (1 PF)
Finley Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Parker (1 AST) 10:39
[SAS 2-2]
10:13
[MIA 4-2] O'Neal Hook Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Finley Jump Shot: Missed 10:06
10:04 Team Rebound
9:49
[MIA 6-2] O'Neal Reverse Layup Shot: Made (4 PTS)
Oberto Foul:Shooting (1 PF) 9:49
9:49
[MIA 7-2] O'Neal Free Throw 1 of 1 (5 PTS)
Oberto Layup Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Duncan (1 AST) 9:30
[SAS 4-7]
9:13
[MIA 9-4] O'Neal Layup Shot: Made (7 PTS)
Assist: Williams (2 AST)
Parker Turnover:Bad Pass (2 TO) 9:00
8:39 Williams Jump Shot: Missed
8:37 Williams Rebound (Off:1 Def:0)
8:27 Williams Driving Layup Shot: Missed
Duncan Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 8:26
8:23 Haslem Foul:Personal (1 PF)
Parker Free Throw 1 of 2 missed 8:23
Team Rebound 8:23
Parker Free Throw 2 of 2 (1 PTS) 8:23
[SAS 5-9]
8:01 O'Neal Turnaround Jump Shot: Missed
7:59 O'Neal Rebound (Off:1 Def:0)
7:54 Hardaway Jump Shot: Missed
Bowen Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 7:53
Parker Jump Shot: Made (3 PTS)
Assist: Bowen (1 AST) 7:46
[SAS 7-9]
Oberto Foul:Personal (2 PF) 7:38
7:38 Team Timeout:Regular
7:29
[MIA 11-7] Haslem Jump Shot: Made (4 PTS)
Assist: Williams (3 AST)
Oberto Jump Shot: Made (4 PTS)
Assist: Bowen (2 AST) 7:10
[SAS 9-11]
6:45
[MIA 13-9] O'Neal Turnaround Hook Shot: Made (9 PTS)
Assist: Williams (4 AST)
Oberto Jump Shot: Missed 6:30
6:29 Haslem Rebound (Off:0 Def:2)
Oberto Foul:Personal (3 PF) 6:26
Oberto Subs ution replaced by Elson 6:26
6:13 Haslem Jump Shot: Missed
Elson Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 6:12
Finley 3pt Shot: Made (5 PTS)
Assist: Duncan (2 AST) 6:02
[SAS 12-13]
5:45
[MIA 15-12] O'Neal Dunk Shot: Made (11 PTS)
Assist: Hardaway (1 AST)
Bowen Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS) 5:21
[SAS 14-15]
5:08 O'Neal Layup Shot: Missed
Bowen Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 5:06
5:05 Wright Foul:Personal (1 PF)
Bowen Subs ution replaced by Ginobili 5:05
Parker Free Throw 1 of 2 (4 PTS) 5:05
[SAS 15-15]
Parker Free Throw 2 of 2 (5 PTS) 5:05
[SAS 16-15]
4:51
[MIA 17-16] Williams Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Duncan Jump Shot: Missed 4:37
Elson Rebound (Off:1 Def:1) 4:35
Duncan Layup Shot: Missed Block: O'Neal (2 BLK) 4:28
Team Rebound 4:27
4:21 O'Neal Foul:Shooting (1 PF)
Elson Free Throw 1 of 2 (1 PTS) 4:21
[SAS 17-17]
Duncan Subs ution replaced by Bonner 4:21
Elson Free Throw 2 of 2 (2 PTS) 4:21
[SAS 18-17]
4:11
[MIA 19-18] O'Neal Layup Shot: Made (13 PTS)
Assist: Wright (1 AST)
Finley Foul:Shooting (1 PF) 4:11
4:11
[MIA 20-18] O'Neal Free Throw 1 of 1 (14 PTS)

So this supposed broken version of Shaq had 14 points, finished two And-1's, drew three fouls on Oberto, blocked two shots while playing less than eight minutes against the Spurs' starting lineup. And some Spurs fans are actually happy that the Suns traded their worst playoff performer for Shaq?

Wow.

[Cry Havoc]

Timvp, a LOT of players kill us in the regular season. Marc ing Blount destroys us in the regular season. No name starting centers from the Jazz are wrecking balls to the Spurs.

We'll see if Shaq can still play. If he can't, we might not even have to face the Suns in the playoffs.

[mob]

Tpark....quit now

[LavaLamp]

Plus, I'm not worried about Stoudamire. He got 37 ppg against SA in the 2005 wcf and look what happened.

We'll probably put Finley on Amare, TD on Shaq (assuming we're playing small bell) and beat them in 5

Finley on Amare and TD on Shaq to win in 5 games? Isn't that just a wee bit optimistic? :-)

[LavaLamp]

Grant hill again has missed games this year because of injuries!

Grant missed games this year because he had to have an emergency appendectomy but his ankle and back are fine. He did miss more games due to back spasms after the appendectomy because tried to play again too soon and his back compensated for him favoring his abdominal scars.