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Oooooh. Man, you are smart.
So where do you see the Spurs exposing the Suns and Lakers?
How do you see the Spurs stopping their new low-post players?
Kryptonite is not allowed.
This ought to be good.
I'm afraid of the convenience of final between Lakers and Celtics, just like in the old days. I'm not saying is a plot, but it would be a big improvement for the league popularity, ratings, merch, and a long etc. We'll see in the spring.
Oooooh. Man, you are smart.
So where do you see the Spurs exposing the Suns and Lakers?
How do you see the Spurs stopping their new low-post players?
Kryptonite is not allowed.
This ought to be good.
While it's certainly true that the Spurs majorly lose the Oberto matchup there, Tim has the same advantage over Bynum, and Parker over Bell. Finley, if he's playing well is better than Diaw and Radmonovic, and if Manu plays smart (he'll cost the Spurs at least one game in the playoffs with a stupid play and win 3 for an amazing play), he's better than Hill and Odom. Nash and Bruce are a wash (one's great offensively and sucks on D the other is great D but sucks on O), and Kobe's unmatchable.
For the Suns it's STILL Amare and Nash, with a little better 3-4 options with Hill and Shaq at the expense of their best 1 on 1 defender.
The Lakers are certainly scarier since it's no longer just Kobe and whichever random guy might step up.
And with the Suns, you HAVE to base it on pre-trade performance because we do not yet have a sample of post-trade performance with the expected lineup.
Who exactly is guarding Parker and Manu one on one? Does Casper even recognize how good two of his favorite team's Big 3 are offensively? What a chump.
Seriously?
IMO a healthy Parker being defended by Derek Fisher or Steve Nash is still the biggest adantage either way.
Phil Jackson in 2004 clogged the lane and dared the Spurs's shooters to beat him. Led by Hedo Turkoglu's inept shooting, the Spurs failed that year. Since then the Spurs have striven to put quality 3 point shooters around our big 3. This year we have Manu, Barry, Finley, Horry, Bowen, Udoka, Stoudamire and Bonner. We are shooting 38% from the arc for the year. That is our big advantage over the compe ion: veteran shooters who can come up big in pressure games.
If we can get the D back up to championship quality, we have as good a chance as anyone.
Kobe and Hill guard Manu.
Farmar and Bell guard Parker.
Or they switch on our guards.
How about you answer my questions now?:
So where do you see the Spurs exposing the Suns and Lakers?
How do you see the Spurs stopping their new low-post players?
T. Duncan / S. O'Neal / A. Bynum
B. Bowen / S. Nash / K. Bryant
F. Oberto / A. Stoudamire / P. Gasol
T. Parker / R. Bell / D. Fisher
M. Finley / B. Diaw / V. Radmonovic
E. Ginobili / G. Hill / L. Odom
Where do you see the Spurs capitalizing?
Do you recognize that on paper, the Spurs are outmatched in more spots?
Tic Tac Doh!
So somehow the Spurs' All-Star caliber guards are stymied yet that problem doesn't exist for their opponents.
...I understand the kobe aspect (perennial 1st team all defense)....
What you believe may not be fact though. Wait till you see them play before making stupid assumptions. So many Piston fans thought that the Celtics were too thin to compete even though they have arguably the best trio in the league. I think I was one of the fans who said that before seeing them play and it was a stupid assumption. All there players are playing impressive. Wait until you see them play in the playoffs. You can't tell how good a trade is with the Suns until you see them in the playoffs. Suns always do good in the regular season.
FLASHY TRADE!!! NEED FLASHY TRADE (wait for it . . . . ) . . . . (not quite yet) . . . .
(almost there) . . . . NOW!!
Grant Hill guarding Manu =The Suns have to choose between letting Manu go off on Hill v/s Parker going off on Nash. And I still don't think they can stop Duncan. Pick-n-roll with Duncan and Manu/Parker is the answer, that would expose Shaq's defense more than anything else. From Marion to Shaq, the Suns improve their rebounding while degrading an already porous D.
Kobe guarding Manu is great by me. Let him expend some energy on the defensive end. Farmar isn't stopping TP, and neither is Fisher. This is one of the reasons Barbosa averaged 21 PPG against LA in the playoffs last year. Their PGs don't have a chance vs Parker. They have to collapse and dare someone else to shoot.
Yeah thats apparent when Ginobili drops 25 on the Lakers consistently.
If hes such a great defender, why is he always put on Bruce Bowen?
Why does Bruce Bowen always torch him for 20 as well?
Effectively. Nash's massive deficiencies on defense lower his overall impact on the game. Bruce can be a dominating defender, but the fact that he's effectively a junk heap on offense lessens his impact. Each is a key part of the team on their side of the ball and a huge liability on the other. Actually, Bruce is less of an offensive liability than Nash is a defensive one, and Nash's offensive contributions are better than Bruce's defensive. To me it just about balances out.
I hope D'Antoni is still this stupid.Grant Hill guarding Manu
Hill's ankle would snap like a dried twig if he attempted this.
...this may have to do with fatigue...that and the fact that bowen slows Kobe to what....30-40?
They put Kobe on Bowen, so he doesn't expend any energy on the defensive end. That's how Kobe manages to get his against Bowen.
Some better posts lately in this thread.
Ginobili has the potential to go off against Odom or Hill.
Bell is a very good defender and can slow down Parker. Don't forget that the Suns and Lakers both boast 2 shotblockers now.
We have seen in the past that if you play superior defense, it doesn't matter if you only have one compe ive advantage on offense. You can continue to go to Dunca, Parker or Ginobili - whoever can score the easiest - and hope you get stops on the other end.
The only thing that is unsettling now is that the Lakers and Suns have more compe ive advantages on the offensive end.
it will take the Spurs best team defense to win.
The thing about Bowen's defense of Kobe that is most significant has little to do with points and everything to do with shots. If Kobe gets 35 on 16 shots, he hasn't been defended well; if Kobe gets 35 on 32 shots, he's been defended extremely well. The closer Bowen gets to keeping Kobe's points per shot to somewhere between 1.0 and 1.3, the more valuable his defensive effort is.
In the last 6 matchups between the Spurs and Lakers, Bowen has accomplished that on 3 occasions, all Spurs wins -- the 3 times he hasn't done it, the Lakers have won:
12/10/06 -- 34 points, 25 shots; 1.36 pps (Lakers win)
1/17/07 -- 34 points, 19 shots; 1.79 pps (Lakers win)
1/28/07 -- 31 points, 25 shots; 1.24 pps (Spurs win)
11/13/07 -- 18 points, 19 shots; .95 pps (Spurs win)
12/13/07 -- 30 points, 24 shots; 1.25 pps (Lakers win)
1/23/08 -- 29 points, 27 shots; 1.07 pps (Spurs win)
If you take it out over a longer period of time, the trend continues. Bowen's focus is on forcing Kobe to be a volume shooter to get his points. And Bowen has been fairly effective at accomplishing that goal over time.
Obviously, there are other things that determine games, but defending Kobe is the primary focus for the Spurs in a matchup with LA and Bowen's ability to make Kobe work (not to keep Kobe from scoring) is a huge difference.
this is true....but Kobe was always the primary focus of the spurs team defense....with the addition of gasol....this enables kobe to get more one on one opportunities with bowen on him....bowen can't stop kobe from penatrating and creates a shot for himself or odem/gasol/bynum/fisher....if the spurs double team anyone....they'll be in trouble..
The big difference is we don't have cake hands on our team again. Granted he played good D, but does not rebound as well as Bynum or Gasol. Oh, and I like Bynum's length on Duncan one on one.
I don't know that you're entirely correct about that, because the numbers hold up over the Kobe-Shaq era, too, when the Spurs couldn't just focus on Kobe defensively.
Since the start of the 2001-02 season, Kobe and Bowen have gone head-to-head on 23 occasions. During that time, Bowen has held Kobe under 1.25 PPS on 14 occasions and the Spurs have won 12 of those games.
I don't buy your premise that Bowen CAN'T stop Kobe from penetrating -- if that was true, Kobe would be penetrating all the time and creating opportunities for his teammates by disrupting the defense. The historical fact shows that to be untrue. Bowen harasses Kobe into taking a lot of low percentage shots -- Bowen does that against many great scorers -- and his ability to do that doesn't necessarily depend on who's behind him.
Certainly, the addition of Gasol changes the calculus a bit, but I don't think it dramatically alters the Bowen-Kobe matchup and I don't think it makes it easier for Kobe to win that matchup. That's not to say that Kobe can't win it, just that, historically, Bowen has done as well as anyone in the league at making Kobe work for his points.
and you are basing your analysis on games that havent been played. you are talking up the lakers and suns roleplayers like they are the second coming of jesus. when was odom an all star? gasol? fisher? bell? hill? since when do they get double teams (last millenium doesnt count)? and a trap is not a double team.
how are they going to defend us? we have more threats than they do, and neither one of them is a good defensive team.
You do not have more threats on offense. If you did you wouldn't be struggling to score 90pts a game with just Parker and a role player Barry being out. The fact is out of the Suns, Spurs, and Lakers the Spurs have to worst offense. They compensate for it with the best D in the league.
I would say most inconsistant offense, at least. The Spurs rely on forcing help and getting a shooter a wide open look. If their people who are capable of forcing help (Parker, Duncan, Ginobili) are off, the offense sucks because the open looks don't happen. If they force the help, the Spurs offense is one of the most effective, efficient, and beautiful in the league.
The Suns are badass in transition, but not really good in the half-court (one of the reasons they went after Shaq). Their style leads to a lot of open looks for both teams. Their true offense (not transition game, which I would consider separately) is fairly poor.
The Lakers have the most consistent offense of the three, mostly because Kobe can force help against just about anyone, even when he's off, and they have really consistent shooters.
as fyatuk pointed out, we have the most versatile offense in the league. but since youre a stats guy, look at this:
lakers and suns have higher pace than spurs. the spurs have better point differential than either. lakers are missing: ariza + bynum, 6.5 +13.1 = 19.6
spurs are missing parker + barry, 19.2 + 7.3 = 26.5
now, tell me which team has more 18+ scorers- lakers, suns or spurs?
now, which one has the potential to play guys more minutes and get more production?
thanks for playing!
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