Clemens Congressional Hearing

[whottt]

. . . Rafael Palmeiro.

You know the funny thing is...Palmeiro said he got it from using one of Tejada's syringes...and Tejada has now now been popped for using steroids.


So what if Raffy was telling the truth?

[florige]

You know the funny thing is...Palmeiro said he got it from using one of Tejada's syringes...and Tejada has now now been popped for using steroids.


So what if Raffy was telling the truth?

Man all these bas s knew what they were doing simple as that. And I'm saying this being a lifetime Palmeiro fan.

[fyatuk]

Andy for sure did not lie.

The problem is, as far as I can tell, Andy's entire story is that at some point Clemons told him he used HGH (as it relates to Clemons). He didn't claim to see it happen, etc.

That's not very damning when the person denies saying it, and fits in perfectly with Clemon's claim that Andy "misheard" or whatever. Clemons never claimed his friend lied, so the trustworthiness of Pe e doesn't really reflect upon the claim.

It comes down to how reliable Andy's memory is, and any policeman will tell you that memory is extremely unreliable.

Not that I believe Clemons, but I don't see how any of this will lead to any charges. McNamee is a proven liar, and the evidence from Andy is heresay. Clemons loses his reputation, but that's it.

[dbreiden83080]

The problem is, as far as I can tell, Andy's entire story is that at some point Clemons told him he used HGH (as it relates to Clemons). He didn't claim to see it happen, etc.

That's not very damning when the person denies saying it, and fits in perfectly with Clemon's claim that Andy "misheard" or whatever. Clemons never claimed his friend lied, so the trustworthiness of Pe e doesn't really reflect upon the claim.

It comes down to how reliable Andy's memory is, and any policeman will tell you that memory is extremely unreliable.

Not that I believe Clemons, but I don't see how any of this will lead to any charges. McNamee is a proven liar, and the evidence from Andy is heresay. Clemons loses his reputation, but that's it.

We didn't hear everything that was in Andy's testimony but given his close relationship to Clemens, the fact they were training partners and the fact that Mcnamee was Clemen's trainer first, it is just a huge stretch to believe that Roger and Andy did not have a conversation about HGH. Andy testified to this and he his wife did the same based on a conversation she had with Andy. You really think Andy would have his wife swear to the same unless he was 100% sure of the nature of this conversation he had with Roger?? Plus Roger was changing his story multiple times yesterday. On 60 min he said that his lawyers told him not to talk to Mitc when he was invited to do so. Then yesterday he said he had no idea Mitc wanted to talk to him at all. He blamed his agents for the whole thing. He also tried to make the committe believe that Mcnamee actually injected his wife with HGH, in their home without his knowledge. Which is just ludicrous beyond words that he would think anyone would buy that garbage.

[Fabbs]

What stats were those?


Did his strike out/ strike out ratio improve?



No it didn't.


About the only thing that improved was the amount of walks he was allowing....that has nothing to do with throwing the ball harder.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3239471
Seems like the 4 University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School stat professsors who took a critical look at the Roger Clemens Report were not out to "get" poor Roger.
OTOH Clemons lawyers would definitely lie twist and spin for a buck.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...ard&id=3244584

[fyatuk]

We didn't hear everything that was in Andy's testimony but given his close relationship to Clemens, the fact they were training partners and the fact that Mcnamee was Clemen's trainer first, it is just a huge stretch to believe that Roger and Andy did not have a conversation about HGH. Andy testified to this and he his wife did the same based on a conversation she had with Andy. You really think Andy would have his wife swear to the same unless he was 100% sure of the nature of this conversation he had with Roger?? Plus Roger was changing his story multiple times yesterday. On 60 min he said that his lawyers told him not to talk to Mitc when he was invited to do so. Then yesterday he said he had no idea Mitc wanted to talk to him at all. He blamed his agents for the whole thing. He also tried to make the committe believe that Mcnamee actually injected his wife with HGH, in their home without his knowledge. Which is just ludicrous beyond words that he would think anyone would buy that garbage.

No we didn't, but we have heard that his deposition was all over the place (the rumored reason he was excused from the hearing was because he wouldn't be a good witness because of how he bounced around), and this is what people are choosing to focus on, so it's probably a safe assumption that this remembered conversation is the closest thing to something damning about Clemens. His wife swore that Pe e told her about the conversation. If Pe e originally heard wrong, it doesn't make a difference. Honestly, if that's the most damning thing about Clemens in Pe e's deposition, it's completely useless in terms of trying to pin something on Clemens.

As has been brought up with McNamee, differences in stories told to media and stories told to the hearing are irrelevent, at least in terms of perjury charges, and it's doubtful any actual drug charges will be brought against anyone (and it'd be McNamee if anyone).

That's all I'm saying. No charges are going to appear based on this hearing or the depositions.

[clambake]

if the almighty, legendary pitcher known as roger clemens tells me he uses hgh, then that is something that could never be "misheard".

[Spurminator]

I have a pretty high standard for giving the accused the benefit of the doubt until solid proof is provided, but given Andy Pet te's testimony combined with the assertion that Clemens' wife took HGH (without him knowing!?!?) I've pretty much made up my mind that Clemens is a liar, with the mindset that if he never admits it, it means it never happened.

[Heath Ledger]

He'll be taking something else in the ass very soon at a prison near you....

[dbreiden83080]

I have a pretty high standard for giving the accused the benefit of the doubt until solid proof is provided, but given Andy Pet te's testimony combined with the assertion that Clemens' wife took HGH (without him knowing!?!?) I've pretty much made up my mind that Clemens is a liar, with the mindset that if he never admits it, it means it never happened.

Not that this means much to some people but i saw a body language expert on ESPN First Take this morning and she said that Clemens was 100% consistant start to finish with someone who was lying like crazy the entire hearing.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Pet e's testimony, if anyone wants to read it:

Deposition - February 4th

http://oversight.house.gov/do ents/20080213144942.pdf

Affidavit - February 8th

http://oversight.house.gov/do ents/20080213150024.pdf

[mikejones99]

roger is a rich er and rich fux dont usually go to jail

[whottt]

Boy, I sure hope you guys are never sitting on my jury when I'm innocent.

"My ass says guilty, so he must be".

[whottt]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3239471
Seems like the 4 University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School stat professsors who took a critical look at the Roger Clemens Report were not out to "get" poor Roger.
OTOH Clemons lawyers would definitely lie twist and spin for a buck.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...ard&id=3244584

I see...and how many Cy Youngs do those guys have?




Thanks for playing.

[whottt]

I have a pretty high standard for giving the accused the benefit of the doubt until solid proof is provided, but given Andy Pet te's testimony combined with the assertion that Clemens' wife took HGH (without him knowing!?!?) I've pretty much made up my mind that Clemens is a liar, with the mindset that if he never admits it, it means it never happened.

I didn't hear you complaining when he was leading your team to the World Series...


And I love the wife logic...so if man's wife kills someone, he killed someone too?


Insightful...


So tell me...what you do think about newfangled dunking pool method? I know it's not as cutting edge as burning at the stake...but still, it's pretty sophisticated.

[Spurminator]

How does his wife get HGH from his trainer without him knowing? In what world would that ever happen?

[Spurminator]

I don't even care if anything happens to Clemens. I'd still put him in the HOF. But the more he lies the more this thing drags on and the more I have to hear about it, and it's annoying.

And didn't you convict Palmiero right after Canseco's book came out?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I don't care about steroids in baseball, but this is great theater.

[dbreiden83080]

No we didn't, but we have heard that his deposition was all over the place (the rumored reason he was excused from the hearing was because he wouldn't be a good witness because of how he bounced around), and this is what people are choosing to focus on, so it's probably a safe assumption that this remembered conversation is the closest thing to something damning about Clemens. His wife swore that Pe e told her about the conversation. If Pe e originally heard wrong, it doesn't make a difference. Honestly, if that's the most damning thing about Clemens in Pe e's deposition, it's completely useless in terms of trying to pin something on Clemens.

Pet te also said that he talked with Mcnamee about Roger and his HGH use and Mcnamee became very angry and told him "that was supposed to be confidential", surely he did not misunderstand that conversation. I know Clemens is not likely to go to jail here, i just believe what Andy is saying as the truth. That Clemens is just in desperate spin mode here, clinging to anything he can grab a hold of.

[mikejones99]

Clemens gets the last laugh, the Yankees paid him close to 20 million $$$$ for about half a season.

[clambake]

so, mrs. clemens is getting hgh injections and roger knows nothing about it, and is outraged to find out about it, and is not stomping the guts out of macnamee....sure.

[mikejones99]

mrs. clemens should get half the punishment

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't even care if anything happens to Clemens. I'd still put him in the HOF. But the more he lies the more this thing drags on and the more I have to hear about it, and it's annoying.

And didn't you convict Palmiero right after Canseco's book came out?

Acutally, if I remember correctly, I think whottt was the last man standing in the Palmeiro defense and gave up only when the failed test was made public.

And Clemens might want to consult with that all-time hits leader in baseball history about a denial strategy. If he didn't do it, then denial is the best thing that Clemens can do. But it seems unlikely, at this point, that he didn't do it.

[fyatuk]

Pet te also said that he talked with Mcnamee about Roger and his HGH use and Mcnamee became very angry and told him "that was supposed to be confidential", surely he did not misunderstand that conversation. I know Clemens is not likely to go to jail here, i just believe what Andy is saying as the truth. That Clemens is just in desperate spin mode here, clinging to anything he can grab a hold of.

I believe Pe e as well. I was just trying to make the point to the people cracking jokes about jail time that that wasn't really a possibility.

You can't convict one heresay like that.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Wouldn't matter, Bush would just pardon him.