Howard sure didn't do much in the 4th quarters of those games....
No, I just think it's funny hearing a Dallas fan ing about Spurs fans talking about a team the Spurs might face in the playoffs on a Spurs message board.still with this bull ? that's so 2007.
"it's OUR website, so you accept what WE say! Nyahhh!"
If you can't understand what I'm saying, you suck at the internet.
Howard still scored more in the 4th quarters than Diop did the entire series I'm sure.
Mavs fan still doesn't get the significance of defense, I'm sure.
I think Diop can learn from the Spurs staff and actually prove useful. I don't think he will be any better in terms of personal fame but really just success. 20mpg tops.
Really, he won't sign with us imho. Cuban, side deal, dunno. But won't.
lol right.
"The Mavs traded Devin & Diop, they're ed!"
"Um, I follow the Mavs, and after watching every game this season, I'd like to offer the insight that Diop was playing 15 minutes a game and doing very little to help the team this year. After watching every game I have come to this conclusion. Every minute of every game. Not just 30 second Sportscenter highlights, or looking at box scores. Actually watching the games, ya know. And Diop sucked balls. He was great in 06, he sucks balls now."
"Whatever Mav fan I saw him kick Duncan's ass in OT of Game 7 when Duncan was totally gassed and Diop came in completely fresh off the bench. Diop was your key to total victory. I'm a Spurs fan, I know these things."
"Well I'd just like to offer again that I've uh, seen all the Mavs games this year so I might have a bit more insight on the-"
"LISTEN TO MY SUPERIOR KNOWLEGE, MAV FAN, OR LEAVE SPURSTALK!"
You're right. Howard's not the one who made Duncan miss layups. Josh should definitely work on that skill.
The Spurs have Udoka now. At the time, they were screwed because they had nobody to guard Howard AND Dirk. Put Bowen on Dirk at the free-throw line extended, and Josh will make a backdoor cut for an easy layup with Timmy on him. Stick Bowen on Josh, and watch Dirk rape whichever lumbering big or undersized wing the Spurs threw out there. Josh's numbers weren't that great, 16 pts and 7 boards per game on 45% shooting, but he definitely caused the Spurs fits with his defense and being on the floor at the same time as Dirk.
Your not even making sense anymore....
Let me dumb it down for you and mono.
As long as Dallas doesn't run into LA (Bynum), Phoenix (Shaq), or SA (TD), not having Diop won't hurt you.
If Dallas does run into one of those three, you're ed.
don't want him
Josh is a good defender. And Diop is living off the overtime in Game 7 when he spent all of regulation on the bench while Tim was gassed.
Magloire getting Diop's 15 minutes per game is not going to be the difference between winning and losing a series. I doubt it even adds up to winning or losing a game. You don't stop Duncan, you mitigate him by running a bunch of bodies at him and using up your allotted 6 fouls per player. It's not like Diop and Dampier played Duncan straight up the entire time they were on the floor, they received weakside help and the occasional double. The Mavs did a good job of rotating around to make sure the Spurs didn't get as many open looks from the arc. I'd rather have Diop to defend Duncan than Magloire, but Magloire is just as good a rebounder, and we won't be playing 4 on 5 on offense with Magloire instead of Diop. We have to beat four teams, not just the Spurs. It's a risk and a tradeoff.
And as far as Devin being some kind of Parker stopper, Tony has averaged 19 and 4 assists against Dallas since the beginning of that series. Devin over that same period of time has averaged 12 points and 3 assists per game. Maybe you forgot Game 7, when Parker curbstomped Devin: 24 points, 5 assists, 1 turnover; Harris -- 2 points, 0 assists, 5 turnovers. Why don't you ask Baron Davis and Dwyane Wade if they think Harris is some sort of Bowenesque shutdown defender.
Jason Kidd won't defend Parker as well as Harris did, but he will damn sure make Parker work on defense much more than he ever did on Devin.
Last edited by Findog; 02-28-2008 at 12:06 AM.
yeah, because kidd is such an offensive force. i'm sure parker is shaking in his boots
We'll beat Phoenix. Their defense is terrible with Nash, Amare and Shaq on the floor together. I'd rather play the Spurs than the Lakers. The Kidd trade doesn't make us the favorites by any means, but it gives us a fighting chance, and we're better now than we were before the trade. If all we had to do was beat San Antonio, then I would've stood pat. But you don't get a ring for beating the Spurs.
As for Bill Russell's magnificent defense on Duncan in overtime of Game 7, he sat on the bench for the first 48 minutes while Duncan was gassed. We still have the center who helped wear Duncan down.
Magloire is not some kind of savior. He was a good pickup for the vet minimum. If you think we're going to lose a series solely because of him taking over Diop's 12-15 mpg, then I can't help you. I think ultimately we'll be done in by lack of perimeter defense.
Are you re ed? Kidd is a bad outside shooter, therefore he's a worthless offensive player. Good one, Spur fan.
Diop is ty and this bull is a waste of my got damn time and internet space.
When playing the Spurs?Kidd is a bad outside shooter, therefore he's a worthless offensive player
Uh yup.
His running mates aren't K-Mart, Vince and Jefferson anymore. You're adding Kidd to two guys that are Spurs killers, and he's going to make their life easier and get them better looks in halfcourt sets, when the playoffs slow down and the game becomes more physical. I'm sorry, but Kidd > Parker, and Magloire = Diop. We're better now. We'll see if that equates to better than the Spurs in May.
Thank you Sequ.
Saying that Dirk is the answer and not defense is comical. Tim might have missed layups but he's managed to ac ulate a few rings...tell me something about "your answer"...
Ring smack. Who woulda guessed? Good job though, we made it 3 pages before it started.
It's too early to say if the Mavs are going to be significantly worse on defense with Kidd and Magloire as opposed to Harris and Diop. Kidd is certainly better at defending big, physical guards like Baron and Kobe, while Harris is better suited for running with the quick guys like Parker, Barbosa, Paul, etc. And I'm not saying Kidd is going to shut anybody down, but Harris wouldn't either. Ask Dwyane Wade about Devin shutting him down.
Diop is a better shotblocker, Magloire is just as good a rebounder and can score, while Diop is a complete nonen y on offense. Part of the reason we lost to Golden State was a complete inability to get points in the paint.
Saying Harris and Diop are our most important players against San Antonio or any team for that matter over Dirk, Josh and Terry is comical.
FWIW:
http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/story/2008/2/27/234914/751
While it is still very early to measure the impact of Jason Kidd on the Mavericks and Shaquille O'Neil on the Suns, it is certainly not too soon to see if there are any early trends to pick up on. Two of the most important to use in gauging progress are offensive and defensive efficiency. Let's take a look at how the teams have changed using these broad but important measures.
By the way, I'm not a statistician, so I couldn't find any splits for efficiency pre- and post-trade, so let's just look at a less accurate but still relevant comparison: The efficiency stats to date (including Shaq's and Kidd's games) versus a general average of their efficiency since the new players joined each team. Stats are courtesy knickerblogger.com.
Offense
Phoenix already had a dominant offense before Shaq arrived, so it is not at all a problem if their offense hasn't improved with him in the line-up. In fact, their offense is so dominant that the Suns would probably have welcomed a slight decrease in their offensive production for a big improvement in their defense. So what happened?
Their offensive efficiency this year is 114.9, which ranks them No. 1 in the NBA by a wide margin. In the games since Shaq joined the team, the Suns efficiency looks like this: 122.8, 89.5, 90.5, 128.3, 104.0. So we have two very good games, a poor game, and two very poor games. This averages out to 107, which is a significant drop off in offensive performance.
Again, it is early, but the Suns offense certainly is looking like it took a hit with the departure of Shawn Marion and the arrival of Shaq.
The Mavericks offense for the year has been good, but not at all in Phoenix's class. In terms of efficiency, the Mavericks have a 112.5 efficiency, good for eighth in the league. But how have they been since Kidd arrived? Here are the numbers: 102.2, 106.5, 110.0, 102.0. The average over these games is 105.2.
So in what is probably a surprise to most people, the Mavs offense has gotten worse with Kidd in the line-up to a degree almost as much as the Suns offense has gotten worse with Shaq in the line-up. There are a lot of reasons for this, from the absolutely wretched performance of Josh Howard to the turnovers, but the bottom line may be tough to accept at this point, but it is true: Up to this point, the Mavericks with Kidd in the line-up are simply not as good on offense as they were when Harris was in the line-up. By the way, this certainly lends credence to Wes' point in an earlier post that Dirk's not getting easier shots, he's simply more focused.
Defense
Of course offense is only half the game. I am certain that coach Avery Johnson would gladly sacrifice some offense for a significant improvement in his team's defense, which has been mediocre at best this year. Has Kidd (and Shaq) sparked an improvement on the defensive side of the ball?
For Phoenix this is a critical question. Their athletic team has been able to overcome systemic defensive shortcomings in the past, but they just traded away their single best (and athletic) defender. Will Shaq's presence in the paint more than make up for this? Well, Suns fans, I'm afraid not.
Currently, the Suns defensive efficiency stands at 108.2, which is No. 15 in the NBA. The defense since Shaq has started playing has been absolutely dismal. Here are the numbers (lower is better): 128.7, 81.1, 122.1, 114.1, 121.2. Outside of the Celtics game, the Suns defense has been dramatically worse.
To put this in perspective, the average over those games is 113.4. The worst defense in the NBA belongs to the Knicks with a defensive efficiency of 113.1, and the Suns are worse than that.
It is a spectacularly different story in Dallas. In what I consider a surprise of monumental proportions, Kidd's impact on the team has been overwhelmingly on the defensive side. For the year, the Mavericks defensive efficiency stands at 107.0, around tenth in the league, and about as good as they've done for the season. How has the defense looked with Kidd on the team? Here are the numbers: 114.3, 90.2, 92.2, 94.0.
Outside of Kidd's debut against New Orleans, the Mavericks defense has been spectacular. Their efficiency with Kidd, even including New Orleans, is roughly 97.7. To put this in perspective, the best defense in the league currently belongs to Boston with an efficiency of 100.1. The defense with Kidd is a magnitude better than that.
The Bottom Line
So the real story with Kidd is that his presence has created a more fluid but significantly less efficient offense but has also led to a completely dominant defense. Somehow, I think Avery Johnson feels this is a welcome trade-off. For the Suns, they face the rather depressing situation where Shaq has significantly hurt their offense and absolutely cratered their defense.
Rings speak louder than MVP trophies when it comes to clutch.
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