The 'Fair Tax' - The Mother of all Dumb Ideas..

[101A]

There is a HUGE difference between income and wealth.

Rich people understand that. Poor people do not.

That's why poor people have to work super hard and then get up to 1/3 of their annual net worth seized by the government (as most people live paycheck to paycheck with very little savings) and rich people pay a very small percentage of their net worth as their assets (because of what they can borrow against them) make up the majority of their wealth--not the paycheck from their job.

That's why rich people don't pay a fair amount of taxes and the current system is broken.

Ahhhh, but I am neither rich, nor poor - I just have a (reasonably) high income. I'm trying to build all of that wealth that you are talking about, but I creep into the top tax bracket - and, do the math, the rate is pretty damn high.

So, I save, I put away, I invest; and NOW, after I have paid all that income tax, and STILL managed to build a net worth in a few years, you want to come after THAT, tooo!!!!!!


YOU!

[DarkReign]

After having a dialogue with 101A on a Federal Sales Tax to replace our current sales tax, its quite obvious it isnt realistic by any means.

There is no real alternative to our current Progressive Tax. Bottom line is, the "rich" pay a steep, steep tax penalty when compared to everyone else. Sure, you could argue they can afford it, and I wont argue that point, but that doesnt change the fact that those big, bad rich people pay far, FAR more taxes in 5-10 years than you ever will in your lifetime.

Just be happy they do.

[DarkReign]

As an example, I pay a ridiculous amount of taxes. If my taxes are ridiculous, my wife's tax payments border on lunacy.

While my brother's baby's momma, the sucking that she is, earns less than $10k a year, pays no taxes, filed her taxes for 2007 and just got a "refund" from the government for $7,000.

Explain that.

[101A]

After having a dialogue with 101A on a Federal Sales Tax to replace our current sales tax, ...

Very diplomatic...although you don't have to be so.

I recognize I wasn't so much dialoguing, as ranting most of the time (I'll dialogue after 4/15).

[101A]

Explain that.

One word:

Progressive.

[xrayzebra]

As an example, I pay a ridiculous amount of taxes. If my taxes are ridiculous, my wife's tax payments border on lunacy.

While my brother's baby's momma, the sucking that she is, earns less than $10k a year, pays no taxes, filed her taxes for 2007 and just got a "refund" from the government for $7,000.

Explain that.

Dimm-o-craps!

I would like to chime in with my two cents. Politicians
are not going to give up the power of taxation and
determining who is taxed and how much. It gives
them the power to "determine" and "punish" and
"reward". Why do you think our tax code is so messed
up.


They will find ways to get the same amount of money
to dispose of in the manner they want. Let's take
tobacco. They condemn it and say they want everyone
to quit smoking. How are they going to replace that
tax money, they will you know. Look at the so called
minimum tax mess. All of them say we must do
something, but cant give up that revenue. Such a
nice bunch we have in Washington.

[smeagol]

There is a HUGE difference between income and wealth.

Rich people understand that. Poor people do not.

That's why poor people have to work super hard and then get up to 1/3 of their annual net worth seized by the government (as most people live paycheck to paycheck with very little savings) and rich people pay a very small percentage of their net worth as their assets (because of what they can borrow against them) make up the majority of their wealth--not the paycheck from their job.

That's why rich people don't pay a fair amount of taxes and the current system is broken.

Are you proposing to tax assets?

: ingrolleyeyes!!!!!!!

[xrayzebra]

Are you proposing to tax assets?

: ingrolleyeyes!!!!!!!

In some cases assets are taxed.

[smeagol]

In some cases assets are taxed.

I'm talking about an all-encompassing asset tax. Something like, 1% on all your assets.

[Holt's Cat]

After having a dialogue with 101A on a Federal Sales Tax to replace our current sales tax, its quite obvious it isnt realistic by any means.

There is no real alternative to our current Progressive Tax. Bottom line is, the "rich" pay a steep, steep tax penalty when compared to everyone else. Sure, you could argue they can afford it, and I wont argue that point, but that doesnt change the fact that those big, bad rich people pay far, FAR more taxes in 5-10 years than you ever will in your lifetime.

Just be happy they do.

Not to mention that for most of those regarded as "rich", they receive no favors from the feds. So they receive the same level of federal government services, at triple the proportional cost.

[Holt's Cat]

I'm talking about an all-encompassing asset tax. Something like, 1% on all your assets.

How about no tax on wealth or income?

And I'm not referring to some kind of broad-based 25% or whatever federal sales tax rate. That's ridiculous. The degree of taxation is ultimately tied to the level of federal government expenditures, or essentially what the American people expect the feds to provide. Everyone wants to pay less in income taxes, but whenever any restraint or reduction in federal expenditures is put forth, it never seems to go anywhere.

[101A]

... but whenever any restraint or reduction in federal expenditures is put forth, it never seems to go anywhere.

Go Figure.

[smeagol]

How about no tax on wealth or income?

And I'm not referring to some kind of broad-based 25% or whatever federal sales tax rate. That's ridiculous. The degree of taxation is ultimately tied to the level of federal government expenditures, or essentially what the American people expect the feds to provide. Everyone wants to pay less in income taxes, but whenever any restraint or reduction in federal expenditures is put forth, it never seems to go anywhere.

The problem in underdeveloped countries is that only 50% (or less) of the people who should pay taxes, really pay them.

So the government comes up with different new taxes, which end up being paid always by the same people.

And these new taxes, such as increasing VAT from 15% to 21%, or the implementation of the asset tax, or the tax on checking accounts, are always increased or imposed because of some so called "crisis".

But when things are going better, those taxes remain in place. They never go away.

Bottom line, US tax laws are not that bad, if you keep things in perspective (like most other things).

[101A]

And these new taxes, such as increasing VAT from 15% to 21%, or the implementation of the asset tax, or the tax on checking accounts, are always increased or imposed because of some so called "crisis".

But when things are going better, those taxes remain in place. They never go away.

This is SOP around the globe, I believe. It is not in the nature of the bureacracy to give back what it has coerced. I attend school board meeting up here in PA (small district - a single 2A high school); it is amazing (disheartening) to watch the board members fall into the trap (even those that ran "conservative" campaigns). They NEVER talk about any REAL spending cuts, or conservation plans. The issue is ALWAYS revenue, and how to get more of it - and despite the fact that there are fewer and fewer students in the district; the costs continue to rise - the pig gets bigger. It is at these levels that the problems inherent in the system are so obvious; and obviously exponentially worse as the bureacracy gets bigger.

[dimsah]

I live in PA as well. My family has lived in our current home since 2003. We locked in a 30 year fixed at 6%. Sounds pretty good, right?

The annual increase in property tax, even when the property values are going lower in the area, has essentially worked like an ARM in that my mortgage payment continues to increase every year. I now pay over $250 a month more than I did when I bought the home 5 years ago.

It's ridiculous. My monthly escrow payment is almost as much as the Payment and interest of my mortgage payment.

[101A]

I live in PA as well. My family has lived in our current home since 2003. We locked in a 30 year fixed at 6%. Sounds pretty good, right?

The annual increase in property tax, even when the property values are going lower in the area, has essentially worked like an ARM in that my mortgage payment continues to increase every year. I now pay over $250 a month more than I did when I bought the home 5 years ago.

It's ridiculous. My monthly escrow payment is almost as much as the Payment and interest of my mortgage payment.

I moved up from Texas is '05.

PA is hopeless.

There are two interstates which cross the state - one is tolled right now; the other is not; they now want to toll the second. And they wonder why all the jobs are moving away (not overseas - to other states!) Corporate taxes through the roof; I file FOUR income tax returns (Fed, State, Township AND School District) - and I pay an annual "Priviledge of Working Tax" of $55 - my personal favorite.

They don't get it.

[Wild Cobra]

I live in PA as well. My family has lived in our current home since 2003. We locked in a 30 year fixed at 6%. Sounds pretty good, right?

The annual increase in property tax, even when the property values are going lower in the area, has essentially worked like an ARM in that my mortgage payment continues to increase every year. I now pay over $250 a month more than I did when I bought the home 5 years ago.

It's ridiculous. My monthly escrow payment is almost as much as the Payment and interest of my mortgage payment.

I moved up from Texas is '05.

PA is hopeless.

There are two interstates which cross the state - one is tolled right now; the other is not; they now want to toll the second. And they wonder why all the jobs are moving away (not overseas - to other states!) Corporate taxes through the roof; I file FOUR income tax returns (Fed, State, Township AND School District) - and I pay an annual "Priviledge of Working Tax" of $55 - my personal favorite.

They don't get it.

You will see that any place that has authoritarian politicians, they will regulate land usage. That increases the values of the land. They love it because it brings in more and more property taxes to do this and that. We have been dealing with property inflation for years in Oregon due to bureaucratic control. This latest fad of various property schemes hasn't helped any. The politicians love it, but notice when land values decline, the assessed values never are!

Taxes... Money... Power...