I'm calling it now..

[xrayzebra]

OMG, ray said "democrat"!!!

Hey, I acknowledged it when I did it..........

[clambake]

Hey, I acknowledged it when I did it..........

i know you did.

i'm still in shock!!!

[Mr. Peabody]

You have an interesting perspective of Obama and his plans. His only foreign policy plan is to surrender and
talk to the bad guys who hate us.

You know, I assumed that you were just doing your typical "dimmocrap" song and dance with regard to the above comment when I first read it. But then, I looked at Obama's own website and Holy !!! - you're right. Under the "Obama's Plans For - " section there is a page en led "Obama's Plans For - Surrendering and Talking to the Bad Guys Who Hate Us." The worst part was that there was no plan! In other words, once again, Obama lacks the substance to tell us how he will accomplish his plan of surrendering and talking to the bad guys who hate us.

[PixelPusher]

You know, I assumed that you were just doing your typical "dimmocrap" song and dance with regard to the above comment when I first read it. But then, I looked at Obama's own website and Holy !!! - you're right. Under the "Obama's Plans For - " section there is a page en led "Obama's Plans For - Surrendering and Talking to the Bad Guys Who Hate Us." The worst part was that there was no plan! In other words, once again, Obama lacks the substance to tell us how he will accomplish his plan of surrendering and talking to the bad guys who hate us.

You should probably color your your last post with "sarcasm blue"

[clambake]

hey ray, what do you think about the sweet deals that Bush's puppet just signed up for with ahmadinajhad?

[Mr. Peabody]

I guess my point is that Obama is farther left than Hillary is. Clinton has been more of a centrist than a leftist during her senatorial career. I think that a part of her base is more centrist than the leftwing base of the party. I know many folks who back clinton are moderate in their politics and would fall in line with a Republican lite candidate that is more of a centrist than a rightwinger. Believe it or not there are many independant/moderate voters who aren't blown away by Obama or his speeches. I personally am one of those who wasn't a Hillary fan before this Presidential campaign started and was leaning towards Obama. As this whole process started I was never blown away by Obama's speeches or his message of change. I found it kind of humorous when people spoke if him as the second coming because I never felt that way about him. My intial view of him was very favorable but i thought he was to young and inexperienced and would be better served as a VP candidate. He was young enough to serve an 8 yr term as VP and be a viable and strong presidential candidate following his service.

Take your Obama glasses for a second and try to think about this objectively. When the general election starts and all of the undecided moderates are given a choice of McCAin or Obama to lead this country in a time of war the choice is clear. Would you want experience? Or a guy who is good looking and is a great orator? I am more moderate than left wing and to me that's not a tough choice. Consider Clinton's voting bloc women, older white americans,latinos (who like Mccain's immigration plan).. ANY number of these folks who defect will harm Obama... I guess you could assume that 75% of these folks come to Obama... the other 25% to Mccain..game over and so id Obama's aspirations of becoming president.

My gut tells me to vote for McCain.. I consider myself a level headed, pragmatic person..

Your characterization of Hillary as a moderate and Obama as a leftist is not quite accurate. Hillary and Obama have almost identical voting records in the Senate (much to my dismay).

Also, with regards to your comment about me taking off my Obama glasses about who moderates will vote for to lead us in this time of war - again, I don't understand your point. Hillary and McCain share radically different views with regards to how to handle the war in Iraq. You are assuming that if people can't get the allegedly "experienced" candidate, who has promised to get us out in six months, they will then vote for the "experienced" candidate who has said he will keep us in Iraq - all the while, ignoring the allegedly "inexperienced" alternative who has also promised to get us out of Iraq. Again, I don't buy this reasoning. You are assuming that people aren't in the slightest supporting Hillary because of her stances on policy and are merely supporting her on the basis of her experience. If that's true, why aren't they just supporting McCain from the beginning? He trumps her on experience by any measure.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Your characterization of Hillary as a moderate and Obama as a leftist is not quite accurate. Hillary and Obama have almost identical voting records in the Senate (much to my dismay).

Also, with regards to your comment about me taking off my Obama glasses about who moderates will vote for to lead us in this time of war - again, I don't understand your point. Hillary and McCain share radically different views with regards to how to handle the war in Iraq. You are assuming that if people can't get the allegedly "experienced" candidate, who has promised to get us out in six months, they will then vote for the "experienced" candidate who has said he will keep us in Iraq - all the while, ignoring the allegedly "inexperienced" alternative who has also promised to get us out of Iraq. Again, I don't buy this reasoning. You are assuming that people aren't in the slightest supporting Hillary because of her stances on policy and are merely supporting her on the basis of her experience. If that's true, why aren't they just supporting McCain from the beginning? He trumps her on experience by any measure.

Well most rationale folks know we can't just get up and leave Iraq. I think we were misled into this war but that doesn't change the fact that it would be irresponsible to leave abruptly. Is this a one issue election?

[Mr. Peabody]

I think we were misled into this war but that doesn't change the fact that it would be irresponsible to leave abruptly. Is this a one issue election?

I don't know, you claimed earlier that it was. Back when you said -

Take your Obama glasses for a second and try to think about this objectively. When the general election starts and all of the undecided moderates are given a choice of McCain or Obama to lead this country in a time of war the choice is clear.

I just don't understand how you can say that in terms of who you would want leading the country during the war you would rank it -

1. Hillary - out in six months
2. McCain - stay until we win
3. Obama - start pulling out within 90 days

That could only be true if you didn't care about the respective plans and were deciding based on another factor. You've indicated the the factor for you is experience. If that's true, then why not support McCain? Also, how can you support Hillary on this issue if her plan is, as you characterized it, "irresponsible."

[Yonivore]

GGA won't be held accountable for his past statements. Past performance isn't indicative of future results...or something like that.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't know, you claimed earlier that it was. Back when you said -



I just don't understand how you can say that in terms of who you would want leading the country during the war you would rank it -

1. Hillary - out in six months
2. McCain - stay until we win
3. Obama - start pulling out within 90 days

That could only be true if you didn't care about the respective plans and were deciding based on another factor. You've indicated the the factor for you is experience. If that's true, then why not support McCain? Also, how can you support Hillary on this issue if her plan is, as you characterized it, "irresponsible."

Does the Iraq war encompass the entire war on terror? It's my understanding that this was just one front? If that's the case we are still at war with the rest of the Islamic terrorists not in Iraq.. Iraq war does not = the war on terror..don't play stupid. I am also concerned with the other war on terror also..are you?


I am big McCain fan .. but I am a bigger Clinton fan.. I have stated that I would consider voting for McCain over Obama if CLinton loses.. I am just not enamored with Obama..pardon me but I want more than a nice suit ... Hillary is tougher than Obama..

Let's not forget overall experience... You may have missed my point... I assume that majority of Americans value experience as opposed to a young guy who wants change..

[boutons_]

the war on terror is a scam, as spurious as the Iraq invasion, where the US is refereeing/subsidizing a n-way civil war, with a few foreign fighters invited exclusively by US's occupation.

"War on" terror is working about just as well as the war on drugs, or the war on dumb kids. Still plenty of drugs, still plenty of dumb kids, after decades of war.

dubya totally ed up going into Iraq. McCain is saying he would have and will up just like dubya with more wars and eternal occupation of Iraq. The Dems will out-vote overwhelm these corporate/MIC shills.

[Mr. Peabody]

Does the Iraq war encompass the entire war on terror? It's my understanding that this was just one front? If that's the case we are still at war with the rest of the Islamic terrorists not in Iraq.. Iraq war does not = the war on terror..don't play stupid. I am also concerned with the other war on terror also..are you?


I am big McCain fan .. but I am a bigger Clinton fan.. I have stated that I would consider voting for McCain over Obama if CLinton loses.. I am just not enamored with Obama..pardon me but I want more than a nice suit ... Hillary is tougher than Obama..

Let's not forget overall experience... You may have missed my point... I assume that majority of Americans value experience as opposed to a young guy who wants change..

Honestly, I could care less whether you support Hillary, McCain, or Obama. Just don't say things like "In the Senate Hillary is a moderate and Obama is a leftist" because they are patently untrue.

Also, you make blanket statements like Hillary is tougher than Obama. Again, I don't know what you base that on. Is it because she said she wears asbestos pantsuits? What tough stances has she taken? What stances has she taken that were politically unpopular or showed substantial resolve?

Just looks at this election. She's accused Obama and Edwards of ganging up on her because she's a woman. She's cried three or four times on the campaign trail (always on the eve of election). She's accused the media of not treating her fairly. This is "tough"?

She's also talked about how hard it is to be a woman in this election. I'll bet that's news to Obama who had to get secret service detail due to the threats on his life. Just google the phrase "assassinate Obama" and see how many hits come up, and yet, Hillary's the tough one because...? man, Colin Powell decided not to run for president in part because people told him he was likely to be assassinated. Give a guy a little credit for knowing there is a good chance he could be dead by the end of his first term and running anyway.

[PixelPusher]

Also, you make blanket statements like Hillary is tougher than Obama. Again, I don't know what you base that on. Is it because she said she wears asbestos pantsuits? What tough stances has she taken? What stances has she taken that were politically unpopular or showed substantial resolve?

Just looks at this election. She's accused Obama and Edwards of ganging up on her because she's a woman. She's cried three or four times on the campaign trail (always on the eve of election). She's accused the media of not treating her fairly. This is "tough"?

She's also talked about how hard it is to be a woman in this election. I'll bet that's news to Obama who had to get secret service detail due to the threats on his life. Just google the phrase "assassinate Obama" and see how many hits come up, and yet, Hillary's the tough one because...? man, Colin Powell decided not to run for president in part because people told him he was likely to be assassinated. Give a guy a little credit for knowing there is a good chance he could be dead by the end of his first term and running anyway.

Damn, I gave her credit for being tough in another thread - I completely forgot about all the times she's played the victim in this campaign.

[Ignignokt]

It's the whole Hillary wearing a Brown mariachi suit, Eating corn out of a cup, and kissing a little mexican girl that convinced him to vote for Hillary over Obama. Lets not kid ourselves.

[101A]

"War on" terror is working about just as well as the war on drugs, or the war on dumb kids. Still plenty of drugs, still plenty of dumb kids, after decades of war.

Don't forget the most expensive failed "war".

The WAR ON POVERTY - been fighting it since the early sixties, and frankly it's kicking our asses.

Let's keep talking, I think we can find some common ground here.

[Mr. Peabody]

"War on" terror is working about just as well as the war on drugs, or the war on dumb kids. Still plenty of drugs, still plenty of dumb kids, after decades of war.

You can't win a war on dumb kids. It's not a conventional war. No matter how many we vanquish there will only be more.

[101A]

You can't win a war on dumb kids. It's not a conventional war. No matter how many we vanquish there will only be more.

Yeah, and it's not very sporting either.

"Hey kid come over here, I've got something for you." (dumb kid comes over, you shoot him in the head)

Then, to the kid standing RIGHT behind the first one who saw the whole thing:

"Hey kid come over here, I've got something for you." (dumb kid comes over, you shoot him in the head)

Repeat.

[Spawn]

Don't forget the most expensive failed "war".

The WAR ON POVERTY - been fighting it since the early sixties, and frankly it's kicking our asses.

Let's keep talking, I think we can find some common ground here.

There's never been a WAR ON POVERTY. A WAR AGAINST POOR PEOPLE is more accurate.

[Spawn]

At my caucus ysterday there were 225 people there supporting Obama. Aproximately 185 of those people were african American.

Clinton's count was 86 with ONE african american female..

There is a 2,000 lb elephant in the room boys and girls..

Again I say that I am sure you didn't have a problem when all those Black people were voting for Clinton the 1st or any other White Democratic canidate but now that the tide has changed and they are not voting for your canidate you now consider it racism.

[101A]

There's never been a WAR ON POVERTY. A WAR AGAINST POOR PEOPLE is more accurate.

Forty years ago, fool.

Learn your history.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Again I say that I am sure you didn't have a problem when all those Black people were voting for Clinton the 1st or any other White Democratic canidate but now that the tide has changed and they are not voting for your canidate you now consider it racism.

I don't care if 100% of the black folks vote for obama.. I was just posting my observation.. It seems to me that most black folks are voting for him because he's black.. there is nothing wrong with that.. If it were a white candidate or hispanic candidate and most people voted for me because of my race that is a bit racist to me.. If I vote for a hispanic candidate soley because of his skin color than I would wrong for doing that wouldn't I? I like Obama but I like Hillary just a little bit more.. I also like McCain..

[Extra Stout]

I don't care if 100% of the black folks vote for obama.. I was just posting my observation.. It seems to me that most black folks are voting for him because he's black.. there is nothing wrong with that.. If it were a white candidate or hispanic candidate and most people voted for me because of my race that is a bit racist to me.. If I vote for a hispanic candidate soley because of his skin color than I would wrong for doing that wouldn't I? I like Obama but I like Hillary just a little bit more.. I also like McCain..

If you become a moderate Republican, I will send you a free plush elephant toy.

[Nbadan]

Hey G.G.A.....Perhaps your pushing the eject button a bit prematurely....

The poll showed 52 percent call themselves Democrats, up from 45 percent in an AP-Ipsos survey in mid-December. Thirty-five percent say they are Republicans, about the same as December's 37 percent.

Yahoo

McCain has a big hill to climb....

[George Gervin's Afro]

Hey G.G.A.....Perhaps your pushing the eject button a bit prematurely....



Yahoo

McCain has a big hill to climb....

McCain will win..book it. If he loses Yoni won't post here for year..


My main point is that there are many people on the clinton/obama teams that don't like eachother nor will they vote for the winning nominee. McCain looks presidential, acts presidential while the democrats loook like amatuers. Obama is going to have to do more than give great speeches. Someone like me who has ALWAYS aligned myself with the democratic party was never enthralled by Obama should worry the obamaniacs.. The guy is obviously well educated and seems to be an overall really good guy but my gut tells me he isn't the right person ofr the job right now. My feelings from the very begining for Obama were that he was too young and inexperienced. I thought his best chance to enhance his resume was to accept the VP position and use the 8 years to become the face of America. No one would ever question his experience if this were the case. I feel Obama mistakenly put all of his eggs in onbe basket by trying to win the Presidential race now. If he loses he's done..for good. If he lost as a VP he could easily go back to the Senate and further enhance his credentials to run again in 8 yrs. He would be 56 and either the VP of 8 yrs or have a 12 yr Senatorial career that he could prove that he was ready. I know quite a few democrats who feel the way I do. In fact one of good friends at work was shocked when I told him if Obama won I would consider voting for McCain. I also managed to convince him that if the dems decided to unite both candidates Hillary would be the best choice to to be on top of the ticket. Obama would then be in a long term win-win situation. If Clinton loses she's done for good while he would be a viable eventual candidate later down the line. He would be a great President in 8 yrs.. but not right now.

[101A]

McCain will win..book it. If he loses Yoni won't post here for year..


My main point is that there are many people on the clinton/obama teams that don't like eachother nor will they vote for the winning nominee. McCain looks presidential, acts presidential while the democrats loook like amatuers. Obama is going to have to do more than give great speeches. Someone like me who has ALWAYS aligned myself with the democratic party was never enthralled by Obama should worry the obamaniacs.. The guy is obviously well educated and seems to be an overall really good guy but my gut tells me he isn't the right person ofr the job right now. My feelings from the very begining for Obama were that he was too young and inexperienced. I thought his best chance to enhance his resume was to accept the VP position and use the 8 years to become the face of America. No one would ever question his experience if this were the case. I feel Obama mistakenly put all of his eggs in onbe basket by trying to win the Presidential race now. If he loses he's done..for good. If he lost as a VP he could easily go back to the Senate and further enhance his credentials to run again in 8 yrs. He would be 56 and either the VP of 8 yrs or have a 12 yr Senatorial career that he could prove that he was ready. I know quite a few democrats who feel the way I do. In fact one of good friends at work was shocked when I told him if Obama won I would consider voting for McCain. I also managed to convince him that if the dems decided to unite both candidates Hillary would be the best choice to to be on top of the ticket. Obama would then be in a long term win-win situation. If Clinton loses she's done for good while he would be a viable eventual candidate later down the line. He would be a great President in 8 yrs.. but not right now.

How'd that whole being on the undercard of a Clinton work for Al Gore?