Article: Sorry to say, race is back as factor in Democratic contest

[whottt]

How does a person's middle name define his policy?

I don't know...but I bet if you put it in a vbookie, most of the people would bet on a guy named Hussein being in favor of pulling us out of Iraq, whether he was the dictator of Iraq, or the President of the USA...call it a hunch.


Lo and behold......




And how does their religion define their policy? Plenty of pacifistic christians...like that Obama guy for one...

[some_user86]

You can also control your middle name...and your stance on the Iraq war.

A stance which the majority of the nation agrees with.

In 2004, support for the Iraq War was a 50/50 split. It was a statistical dead heat (within the MoE). At that point, it comes down to who can have the best voter turnout (since < 60% of the electorate votes). Rove did a brilliant job of increasing conservative voter turnout by having anti-gay marriage bills in 14 of the hotly contested states.

Consider 2004 a win for the social platform, not a referendum on the Iraq war. And consider it a win for economics (as has been the case for the last 50 years), as we were mildly recovering from a recession (a recovery which should have lasted much longer and been much stronger than weak we got).

You can't use 2004 as a guide for this year's election, unless you want to say that things will be unpredictable until election day passes.

[some_user86]

I don't know...but I bet if you put it in a vbookie, most of the people would bet on a guy named Hussein being in favor of pulling us out of Iraq, whether he was the dictator of Iraq, or the President of the USA...call it a hunch.


Lo and behold......




And how does their religion define their policy? Plenty of pacifistic christians...like that Obama guy for one...

It's the Evangelicalness (TM) of their belief that defines policy. (25 cents per use of Evangelicalness (TM).)

[some_user86]

I don't know...but I bet if you put it in a vbookie, most of the people would bet on a guy named Hussein being in favor of pulling us out of Iraq, whether he was the dictator of Iraq, or the President of the USA...call it a hunch.


Lo and behold......




And how does their religion define their policy? Plenty of pacifistic christians...like that Obama guy for one...

You're right. It's because of prejudice.

I am not saying it's his right to be elected. I'm saying if that's the reason he won't be, it's because of prejudice.

I have yet to see a denial of this from you.

[Evan]

bound to happen

[spurster]

I guess this shows that Obama won't be getting the idiot vote this year.

It's also a great year to be a Democrat because we get to choose whether we're sexist or racist.

[some_user86]

Absolutely false...the religious right have been the base of the Republican Party since the time of Lincoln and before. They are the original isolationists and that was the chief stance of the Republican party for many decades.

Patently false. Ever heard of the "New Right"? Phrase came into existence in the late '60s, early '70s. The Democrats had control of the religious South since time of Lincoln. (To update yourself on your history, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right#History and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Right#United_States )

You advocated Ron Paul...that's what he is. Actually, that's the best thing about him.

I don't follow all of the party line. Just the parts I agree with. Libertarian party is where I fall most in line with, but not completely in line with.

If he was running for President, then? Absolutely...and he'd have been right.

Like I said...you show me the cons utional right that guarantees someone the right to win an election for President and I'll stop saying it's pretty much a popularity contest.



Um...when it comes to the Presidency or any kind of popular election, it nearly always does work that way, it nearly always will work that way...



If he wants to be President? Yeah...

You seem to continually confuse being the President with cons uonal rights...not the same thing. The person who gets the most people to like him gets to be President, generally...it's just that simple.

I am not saying that he must be elected, that he should be elected, or that he will be elected. I'm saying that as long as the disagreement is primarily on his name, it's a prejudiced/tainted vote. What can one do? Nothing. It is what it is. But quit using your pseudo-justification to mask the fact that you aren't voting for him because of his name. Do you always make your decisions based on what others would do (like not voting for Obama because his middle name might turn off the intolerant Fundies)?

And I never said I wouldn't vote for a black man...if the black man was the best candidate who most closely aligned with me on what I feel are the key issues I'd vote for him.

Would I ever vote for a black guy just to see a black guy elected President? Probably not...but plenty of racists will.

You said your primary reason for not voting for him was his middle name. So, would you vote for a Hussein if he aligned with your views? So far, I have not found a affirmation that you would do such a thing.

We don't agree...that is a huge part of what is going to sink him.




You mean the majority of people that participate in polls agree on withdrawl...ironically enough, they had similar views in 04. They also thought Kerry won all the debates...

See my above post covering the 04 election.

Why set a timetable for withdrawl? What if the situation becomes optimum for enacting permanent beneficial change to the totalitarian regimes that infest the ME and making it a better situation for us, and every one born there...

He said he would continually evaluate his position based on the information given to him by the military commanders directly under his control (IOW, he ain't really pulling out of Iraq until the situation is optimal; no one is that stupid, and most don't believe that he would do it from day one; I want someone who will guarantee that they will do it eventually, and that they won't follow a neo-con agenda... something that McCain 2000 could promise, but I'm unsure of in McCain 2008).

Well if you guys think pulling out of Iraq is going to drive the price of Oil down you are even more stupid than I thought.

Drawing down military spending might allow us to relax our borrowing from foreign nations and reduce the falling rate of the dollar. It ain't about oil. It's monetary policy. A better energy policy comes from better energy research. , you mean to say that the $1 billion we spent on energy research isn't doing anything? Say it ain't so?! It'll require a big jump in energy research to get us there, which means spending '60s NASA level in energy research. That money can come from the Iraq war that we're spending. Or, we relax our borrowing from China. Either way, it's a win-win. Not a futile cycle like we're doing in Iraq.

Those are negatives...but the big negatives are he's named Hussein and wants us out of Iraq.

There's that name again. So hung up on that name.

With all due respect...what's going to sink Hilary is that she's not even good looking compared to a dog's asshole and she's got less tact, personal charisma and likeability than W...and she wants to pull us out of Iraq.

Ahem... I can't argue with this one.

People are stupid.....but so are the people that fail to realize that..and not voting for Obama because he's black is no more a case of racism than voting for him because he is...

Who's arguing voting for him because of his race?

Yeah...you let me know when you've finally figured out the difference between a cons utional right and winning a Presidential election...I get the feeling it make take a while as you appear to have some form of mental short on that difference.

If you're voting against him only because of his middle name or his race, it's a prejudiced/tainted vote. Using the justification that "other people aren't gonna do it, so why should I?" is just a cop-out for holding the same beliefs.

[some_user86]

I guess this shows that Obama won't be getting the idiot vote this year.

It's also a great year to be a Democrat because we get to choose whether we're sexist or racist.

Not if the Dems end up with the Dream Ticket...

[Yonivore]

It's beginning to look like all the Democrat accusations of racial and sexist bias, launched at Republicans over the years, is just projection.

Now I understand why Democrats think Republicans are racists and sexists; it's because they are.

[some_user86]

It's beginning to look like all the Democrat accusations of racial and sexist bias, launched at Republicans over the years, is just projection.

Now I understand why Democrats think Republicans are racists and sexists; it's because they are.

I've experienced far more racial and ethnic prejudice as a member of the Republican party than coalescing with Democrats.

[rascal]

It doesn't matter if we went into Iraq for the wrong reasons now...it's too late to change that decision.


Secondly...maybe some people just aren't that gung ho about the idea of pulling out of Iraq and creating Afghanistan part 2. Maybe it literally has nothing to do with race, and more to do with the fact that the majority of voters realize the abject stupidity of an immediate pull out from Iraq...since W was able to win re-election against a similar candidate...it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

It does matter because fools like you supported it in the first place.

[Yonivore]

I've experienced far more racial and ethnic prejudice as a member of the Republican party than coalescing with Democrats.

Oh, do tell...

[xrayzebra]

How is it Obama's fault that he was born with the name he was born? The guy is a ing Christian. What more do you want?

His church's "about us" statement. Posted without comment.

About Us

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

[some_user86]

Oh, do tell...

I guess I shouldn't expect much from kids my age (early 20s), but it's mostly continuous confusion of my supposed background (apparently, all brown people are Middle-Easterners) and then harassment based on said supposed background; continuous confusion of my supposed religion (apparently, all brown people are Islamic; I'm from a Buddhism-based background, but I am atheist) and then harassment based on said supposed religion (the most insulting thing is that my background has had an antagonistic relationship with Islam for longer than this country has existed); a continuous belief among some of my Republican friends that unless I am Christian or white, I shouldn't belong in the country much less a part of the Republican party (this one was recent); a continuous belief among some of my Republican friends that legal immigrants steal jobs and I should return to my home country (when I was born and raised for a good majority of my life here; this one was also recent). I can't even imagine what actual muslims must go through.

I just got tired of fighting these few idiots. So I thought I would be a quiet Republican, not a vocal one. But then, things started turning sour in Iraq when we didn't find any WMDs, and I started buying into the idea that maybe GWB knew that their were no WMDs and went to war anyways. I thought, ok, fine... Iraq was used as a tool to teach Iran and Syria a lesson. But then hit the fan and things kept getting worse until it was evident that Iraq had only served to embolden Iran. No matter how much Iraq fixes up, it'll never be enough to convince Iran that it isn't worth it to pick a fight with us (they'll think that it'll be a 50/50 chance that it'll end in a quagmire). I started reading into why the they want to kill us. I found that the terrorist heads had found radical Islam as a tool to convince idiots to commit to their violent, but politically-motivated plans. This was against what the party line had told me. All along we kept spending and spending and spending on everything and nothing. Where the was the fiscal control? At first it was ok because we were getting out of the recession... but what was the excuse in 2005, 2006, and 2007? We were already out of the recession by then. Anyone could've seen this second recession coming. And we had known that a housing bubble was forming since 2003 and 2004 (maybe earlier). Why did no one prevent this mess from occurring (looks at the Federal Reserve)?

Then, as GWB pushed his social agenda more and more on to the public (advocating against stem cell research, which a majority of the nation and Congress supports), I was more and more incested (sp?). I should have expected that, but still. It was the icing on the cake. I was against gay marriage, but I had grown convinced that I was wrong on the issue (still don't agree with it personally, but I can't contest it anymore as an option that they should have). The whole ID vs evolution nonsense and separation of church and state debate started up, and I again found myself on the outside of the party.

All these factors combined, and continuously having to defend myself from attacks on my patriotism because of my skin color, led me to vow never to participate in a political election again. I vowed to leave the Republican party and stay independent from the two-party duopoly.

Of course, I am young, so I reneged on my promises.


====

Ok... going to sleep for at least two hours before heading in to work (yay for lax work times!)

[JoeChalupa]

I feel sorry for anyone who still see race as an issue when looking at a candidate....or anyone else for that matter.

[xrayzebra]

I feel sorry for anyone who still see race as an issue when looking at a candidate....or anyone else for that matter.

Joe, you want to tell all the blacks that, that voted for him
in all the southern states.

You really need to get serious in you thoughts.

[clambake]

yeah, them in bleks. im votin for mccain because i want him in my foxhole when we get captured.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I feel sorry for anyone who still see race as an issue when looking at a candidate....or anyone else for that matter.

Have you seen the numbers regarding how many african americans have voted for obama? 90% .. I have a problem if someone votes for or against someone based soley on their race...

[Yonivore]

yeah, them in bleks. im votin for mccain because i want him in my foxhole when we get captured.

What happens when clambake tries to get by without his mommy proofing and editing his posts.

[clambake]

What happens when clambake tries to get by without his mommy proofing and editing his posts.

i'm only able to talk this way when she's not directly behind me.

As you can see, she's back.

[xrayzebra]

What happens when clambake tries to get by without his mommy proofing and editing his posts.

Naw, that is how he talks in real life.......

[Yonivore]

Naw, that is how he talks in real life.......

I have no doubt.

[clambake]

i can't imagine what blacks in the south have against white presidential candidates.

[xrayzebra]

i can't imagine what blacks in the south have against white presidential candidates.

They are white?????

[clambake]

recent history has shown that southern blacks, in their time of need, were ignored by a leader that preferred a golf resort in arizona. all he did was offer excuses.