The Audacity of Hate

[Spurminator]

Are you implying all UCC pastors hold this guy's views?

Huh? No, I'm clarifying that the Church of Christ is not the same denomination as the United Church of Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Christ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_of_Christ

Of course, neither has a central governing authority, so a lot of times you never know what you're going to get with either.

[Extra Stout]

This guy isn't your average Church of Christ preacher. Admittedly, the Church of Christ has some whacked out views, as a denomination, but I don't think they -- on the whole -- can hold a candle to this guy's position.

The Church of Christ is a conservative evangelical denomination from the Campbellite/Restorationist movement of the 19th century.

The United Church of Christ is a liberal apostate denomination, which back when it was Christian was from the Congregational/Reformed tradition.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

That all adds up to McCain in '08.

YES WE CAN!!!

[JoeChalupa]

That all adds up to McCain in '08.

You very well may be correct and I can live with that. I've always like McCain. He has no problems working with Democrats and Barack has no problems working with Republicans.

McCain/Obama - That's the ticket.

But I also don't blame McCain for the BS that Hagee spews even if McCain does accept Hagee's endorsement.

[Extra Stout]

That's nothing!!! You should hear me go off.

Nothing like an Angry Black Man speaking the truth that makes people tremble in their shoes. I love it!!!

That's not "trembling." That's liberals scratching their heads and asking themselves, "Do I really want to vote for this Obama guy?" Hillary is working to play latent racial divisions on the left to her advantage, and it's starting to pay dividends.

I do wonder which flavor of black nationalist you are. Please select which vision best fits your views. Also feel free to elaborate.

A) Blacks in America must form a cohesive internal community that values education, economic self-determination, and mutual assistance. This will result in blacks enjoying the same degree of success as other high-achieving ethnic minorities and will compel wider America to deal with blacks on equitable terms and arrive at peaceful co-existence.

B) All of A, but in addition, black self-determination and peaceful co-existence can only be fully achieved through a separate black-ruled nation parceled out from American territory.

C) Most of A, but rather than having has a goal equitable and peaceful co-existence with other races, blacks must achieve complete rule over America and/or subjugation of nonblacks the way blacks were once subjugated.

[JoeChalupa]

I will still vote for Obama. Those kinds of dividends will cost America a great President. It would be President Barack Obama and his pastor will not be in his cabinet.
Get real people. Who knew so much racial tension still existed in our Country?
I for one have always known it has been there.

[Yonivore]

I will still vote for Obama. Those kinds of dividends will cost America a great President. It would be President Barack Obama and his pastor will not be in his cabinet.

How do you know? The guy does have an official position in the campaign.

Get real people. Who knew so much racial tension still existed in our Country?

I think the tension is in the Democrat Party and people like Obama's pastor, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et. al. are dead set on making sure the tension remains.

I for one have always known it has been there.

That's because you're a card-carrying member of the race-baiters party. Many of us are only ever reminded of racial tensions when a Democrat opens his or her mouth and starts claiming it exists.

[JoeChalupa]

How do you know? The guy does have an official position in the campaign.


I think the tension is in the Democrat Party and people like Obama's pastor, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et. al. are dead set on making sure the tension remains.


That's because you're a card-carrying member of the race-baiters party. Many of us are only ever reminded of racial tensions when a Democrat opens his or her mouth and starts claiming it exists.

If you don't think republicans will play the race card if Obama wins the nomination you are fooling yourself. And if you believe racism doesn't exist in the conservative republican party you are truly fooling yourself.
I know you are not that ignorant and a lot smarter than that. I know it.

[clambake]

i remembered it from your gas station story. does that mean you're a democrat?

[Yonivore]

i remembered it from your gas station story. does that mean you're a democrat?

And who provided the racial tension in that story? It wasn't me. I pulled into that Inglewood gas station with nothing on my mind but getting gasoline.

[JoeChalupa]

Jumping jack flash..it's a gas, gas, gas.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

And who provided the racial tension in that story? It wasn't me. I pulled into that Inglewood gas station with nothing on my mind but getting gasoline.

this came to mind when i read your post

[Extra Stout]

If you don't think republicans will play the race card if Obama wins the nomination you are fooling yourself. And if you believe racism doesn't exist in the conservative republican party you are truly fooling yourself.
I know you are not that ignorant and a lot smarter than that. I know it.

Many of the slurs against Obama are originating on the far right in the first place. Insight Magazine invented the "Obama is a secret Muslim Manchurain candidate" meme.

The McCain campaign itself probably will be hesitant to play the race card. If he loses two moderate votes, because they get turned off, for every conservative he gets to turn out, which is how I would see that playing out, clearly he shoots himself in the foot.

So to the degree the race card gets played, it will be by the same viral means it has been so far. The strategy for the left will be to research and dredge those up, and try to pin them to McCain somehow.

[Yonivore]

this came to mind when i read your post

Can't get YouTube here, can I assume that's a video of Reginal Denny just trying to do his job while a bunch of black guys described racial tension to him?

If not, that's what you should have posted.

[Extra Stout]

I had a discussion amongst acquaintances who were wondering if maybe every black church has a message similar to what Rev. Wright preaches.

My experience is emphatically "no," unless the ones I've visited all keep a separate repository of "caution - white people are here" sermons to pull out at a moment's notice.

The theme of social justice frequently recurs, the theme of waking up an apathetic America to the needs of the poor occurs, sometimes they talk about the need for greater unity with white Christians, but mostly it's just your usual sermon about Jesus, salvation, grace, the Bible, living the Christian life, etc., delivered with the emotion, and the catchy inflection and phrasing you expect from a black pastor.

Part of that may be because the black churches I've been to are Baptist, AME, Pentecostal, etc., in Texas and elsewhere in the South, and actually believe the historic doctrines of Christianity, rather than making it up as they go along like the UCC apostates.

[JoeChalupa]

^ I concur. I've attended Church Services with my wife and I've never heard anything anti-American ever.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Can't get YouTube here, can I assume that's a video of Reginal Denny just trying to do his job while a bunch of black guys described racial tension to him?

If not, that's what you should have posted.

check it at home. it's better than that one

[JoeChalupa]

You can always catch them on FoxNews.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

look, obviously this doesn't represent Obama's opinion, all the man has ever talked about in his public life is uniting the country, not divisive politics..... so, what is the point of this thread?

Is anyone but that dumb racist Xray actually going to say that Obama hates white people? Wants god to damn america?

[JoeChalupa]

The reason this is an issue is because Barack has been a member of that Church for 20 years, has stated that his Pastor has been a mentor to him, has given him props in his book. But they ignore the fact that he's denounced statements made by his Pastor but he is being swiftboated and as much as I hate it..it appears to be working.

[Yonivore]

Barack Obama provides an account of his meeting Rev. Wright in Dreams from my Father, as well as this brief bio on p. 282:

He had grown up in Philadelphia, the son of a Baptist minister. he had resisted his father's vocation at first, joining the Marines out of college, dabbling with liquor, Islam, and black nationalism in the sixties. But the call of his faith had apparently remained, a steady tug on his heart, and eventually he'd entered Howard, then the University of Chicago, where he spent six years studying for a Ph.D. in the history of religion. He learned Hebrew and Greek, read the literature of Tillich and Niebuhr and the black liberation theologians. The anger and humor of the streets, the book learning and occasional twenty-five cent word, all this he had brought with him to Trinity almost two decades ago. And although it was only later that I would learn much of his biography, it became clear in that very first meeting that, despite the reverand's frequent disclaimers, it was this capacious talent of his --this ability to hold together, if not reconcile, the conflicting strains of black experience-- upon which Trinity's success had ultimately been built.

Obama writes that the Reverand Wright warned him that association with him "isn't necessarily a feather in your cap," because "'[s]ome of my fellow clergy don't appreciatewhat we're about. they feel like we're too radical. Others, we ain't radical enough. Too emotional. Not emotional enough. Our emphasis on African history, on scholarship--"

"Some people say," I interrupted, "that the church is too upwardly mobile."

The reverand's smile faded. "That's a lot of bull," he said sharply. "People who talk that mess reflect their own confusion. They've bought into the whole business of class that keeps us from working together. half of 'em think that the former gang-banger or the former Muslim got no business in a Christian church. Other half think that any black man with an education or a job, or any church that respects scholarship, is somehow suspect."

"We don't buy into these false divisions here. It's not about income, Barack. Cops don't check my bank account when they pull me over and make me spread-eagle against the car. These miseducated brothers, like the sociologists at the University of Chicago, talking about 'the declining significance of race.' Now, what country is he living in?"

A pastor's influence on a member of a congregation can be large or small, but Wright's impact on Obama has clearly been significant, and the pastor's ideas ought to be the subject of an extended public conversation with the candidate.

When a candidate is discovered to belong to a club or organization that discriminates against women or minorities, he has to leave the club or the campaign. He doesn't get to say that he disagrees with this policy or that rule and stay in the membership. Senator Obama's church leadership has expressed very controversial positions, and he stayed a member through all those sermons on politics. Isn't that like remaining a member of a whites-only golf club?

I have no idea what Pastor Wright's theology is, but his politics are very radical, and they are legitimately an issue for the Obama campaign.

Ultimately what the issue comes down to is the country asking, "Who is Barack Obama?" and finding answers anywhere it can. Because Obama has no real public record of his own, the country has to sift through tea leaves. The associations he chooses become relevant.

And a pattern is developing regarding those associations that's disturbing. When Mic e Obama made her obnoxious comments a few days ago, I wasn’t enormously enamored with making a big fuss about them. I don't even recall posting on them.

But you combine Reverend Wright's rhetoric with Mic e Obama's and a pattern begins to emerge: Obama's inner circle seems composed of an inordinate amount of people who don’t much care for this country. Some Obama supporters may ask in response to that fact, So what? Does Obama necessarily share the views of his pastor and his wife? And what if he does?

If that's going to be Obama's supporters best defense, it's not a very good one. The views of Obama’s close relations are going to disquiet a lot of people. A lot of voting people.

Wright's sermons are full of political positions that, if held by Senator Obama, will have an impact on the policies of a President Obama.

[Yonivore]

I think Roger Simon defines the problem for Obama rather succinctly:

I'm not much for guilt-by-association, but when I saw the Reverend Jeremiah Wright on television last night (clip below), I realized that Barack Obama has to do a lot more than merely pay lip service to disassociating himself from "some of the comments" of his minister as if Wright were some errant family member. As we all know, we don't choose our family, but Obama chose this racist demagogue as his pastor for decades. It's not funny. Barack is running for President of the United States. As a former civil rights worker, I find it pretty appalling. Was this what we were fighting for? Forget the primaries, in the general election this video is going to be all over the airwaves and the internet. It could do for Obama what Willie Horton did for Dukakis.... But unlike the Willie Horton ad, Obama will deserve this. Horton was a mistake by Dukakis that any of us could have made. Jeremiah Wright was Obama's personal choice for years. And let's not even get into Barack giving Farrakhan the honorific of "Minister" in the recent debate...

[JoeChalupa]

By the way his book is an awesome read. I highly recommend it.

[JoeChalupa]

Barack's critics are just looking for anything, anything at all to bring him down and that is what politics is sadly all about. I just hope he stays above it all.

[Yonivore]

Barack's critics are just looking for anything, anything at all to bring him down and that is what politics is sadly all about. I just hope he stays above it all.

So, you don't believe those with whom we choose to associate have any bearing on how we should be viewed?