Rockets winning streak is impressive

[DazedAndConfused]

Agreed, with one important counterargument.

Jumpshooting teams throughout the course of NBA history have almost always been run and gun teams who didnt play a lick of D.

Think the 90's Warriors, the Suns of Nash, the Mavs of Dirk-Terry-Stack, the Warriors of Baron-SJax.

It's a rare combination to have a team that is strong defensively but offensively relies on outside shooting. Most great defensive teams have power post games like the Spurs do or the 3peat Lakers.

At the end of the day, Defense is the single most important component of basketball in terms of winning in today's NBA. You can get by easier on off-shooting nights as a perimeter team if D/rebounding are constants.

And even though I pick LAL to win the West, this is the one problem I see for LAL. The Defense has to be shored up a little bit. Bynum would be a tremendous part of this, but the more time goes by and the more the timeframe for a return gets prolonged, the more I question what exactly his role is for the 2008 postseason.

Their interior defense is actually quite poor. I've never seen Odom post up that easily before in my life, it's a shame the Lakers didn't keep going to that strategy (but expected since Odom is so unassertive). They have yet to go up against an elite contender that wasn't missing their interior scorers (and yes Dirk would qualify for that over any other Maverick player).

[bobbyjoe]

The interior D is not poor when Dikembe Mutombo is in the game. he alters shots and blocks shots on penetration.

Where the D is definitely weak is individual post D against 6-10/7 foot bigs. As you said, Odom looked unusually dominant yesterday. However, as I said in a previous post, who will exploit this besides: LAL (Pau, Bynum, Odom), SAS (Duncan), and PHO (Shaq, Amare).

Dirk I think is just silly. The guy is soft and a perimeter player. He's never been a post up player in the paint. He's a post up at the elbow and shoot a fadeaway guy, which just doesnt exploit the current weaknesses without Yao.

Have you watched many Spurs Mavs games? There are games when Popovich will have all PnR's switched to deny open 3's to Dallas and Tony Parker ends up on Dirk. Dirk will not take it to the basket, however, against a guy a foot shorter than him. He will take acouple dribbles and shoot a 15-18 foot fadeaway.

Dirk cant be considered an interior scorer when he probablly gets over 70% of his points outside of the paint. I get your point about the key players being out but Dirk is not the guy who's going to pound inside.

And yes, it was stupid not to keep going to Odom inside. The way he was dominating, either he was going to score or get doubled and then kick out to an open shooter. Odom though, has been on a tear since the Gasol trade. It wasnt just yesterday.

[DazedAndConfused]

We all know Odom's problem. He's not a 2nd option, and he will never fill in that role for the Lakers. As a 3rd wheel I can't imagine a better fit for our team though, if only we can convince him to resign for less money he's a keeper all the way IMHO.

More than anything I just want to see what this Laker team can do with our roster fully healthy. It may not happen this season, but I hope they trot out that starting 5 at least once at some point. Thankfully the news today is that Gasol's ankle is much better, Ariza's boot was taken off, and Bynum experienced no setbacks from the treadmill work he did last week.

[Solid D]

I just know what I see and that is a very good defensive team, one who is certainly one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the NBA in that department. Statistically, it cannot be argued otherwise. The Celts are clearly the best defense without question. But sixty some-odd games into the season and the Rockets are 2nd to Boston in OPP FG%, 4th in Points Allowed, 4th in Assists Allowed. They are slightly better statistically than the Spurs defensively and we will probably see more evidence on the court when they play each other again.

[bobbyjoe]

I really thought Odom would be a Superstar coming out of college. He's got an incredible skill set and a very diverse skill set.

I think people get down on him a bit much. Maybe he's a bit of an underachiever, but he's a great talent and he's really stepped up his game of late.

The fact that he's stepped up after the Gasol trade tells me maybe he does feel some relief (from pressure as the #2) and is eager to use his skills to blend in around the improved talent as a very productive role player.

When you have an Odom playing with energy, hitting the boards around a Kobe and Gasol, that's going to be a load for any team, esp with a Bynum around as an interior defensive presence. Matchup for anyone. The key to making it work is that Odom is so versatile that he will be hard to exploit on the defensive end with a quicker SF.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I just know what I see and that is a very good defensive team, one who is certainly one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the NBA in that department. Statistically, it cannot be argued otherwise. The Celts are clearly the best defense without question. But sixty some-odd games into the season and the Rockets are 2nd to Boston in OPP FG%, 4th in Points Allowed, 4th in Assists Allowed. They are slightly better statistically than the Spurs defensively and we will probably see more evidence on the court when they play each other again.

The more I watch Houston play the more I'm impressed.

Defensive fg % defense is predicated on energy play, and that's what I see when I've watched the Rockets is a lot of guys playing with a ton of intensity on the floor, making quick rotations, fighting through screens and staying with their man. I haven't seen too many open looks for people against Houston.

It's pretty impressive considering that RA is not considered a defensive style coach.

I like the role players the Rockets have assembled. If matchups go their way I could see them making a nice playoff run.

[DazedAndConfused]

I really thought Odom would be a Superstar coming out of college. He's got an incredible skill set and a very diverse skill set.

I think people get down on him a bit much. Maybe he's a bit of an underachiever, but he's a great talent and he's really stepped up his game of late.

The fact that he's stepped up after the Gasol trade tells me maybe he does feel some relief (from pressure as the #2) and is eager to use his skills to blend in around the improved talent as a very productive role player.

When you have an Odom playing with energy, hitting the boards around a Kobe and Gasol, that's going to be a load for any team, esp with a Bynum around as an interior defensive presence. Matchup for anyone. The key to making it work is that Odom is so versatile that he will be hard to exploit on the defensive end with a quicker SF.

Bynum will be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the other teams. A good rebounding team can deal with Gasol and Odom down in the paint, but when you throw Bynum in the mix (who is one of the best rebounders in the league) it is going to be a nightmare for them to contain. I can't wait.

[whottt]

is predicated on energy play, .

With all due respect your spamship...

The Rockets defensive FG % is predicated on

A. A 7'5 behemoth(who is no longer in the lineup)

and

B. Injuries to the top interior scoring threats of virtually every good team team they have played in this streak.


If their streak is still going when they play the Spurs...it will end that night.

That is something that will get the Spurs excited.

[kingmalaki]

Please stop griping about the teams that we are playing. Against LA we trotted out a lineup of:

Mutombo (41 yr old center who is a complete liability on offense)
Scola (rookie who half you say is worse than Bonner)
Battier
T-Mac
Alston
Hayes (another liability on offense)
Harris (dude we picked up on a 10 day contract)
Head
B.Jackson

The majority of lineups look better than that one, including the Laker lineup that we just beat (Kobe is better than T-Mac, Odom better than Battier, continued down the roster). We are missing arguably the best center in basketball (at worse the #2 center), so please spare me the garbage about other teams being without their top players.

I don't see any Rockets fans expecting us to do much damage in the playoffs or get out of the first round at that with this undermanned team. We are just appreciating the streak. But since you want to look at the schedule (I/m going from when we got hot around January), when we were at full strength we beat:

Orlando, SA, GS, Cleveland twice and NO (blowout). We lost by 2 to Utah when Yao was sick, and at that time they were the hottest team in the league.

Since Yao has been out we have beaten the following teams that had just as much talent as our squad:

Denver (AI, Carmelo, Camby, K-Mart)..and we held them to 89 points...a team that just put up 160 the other night
Dallas (Kidd, Howard, Stackhouse, J.Terry, Dampier)
NO (Paul, Peja, Chandler)
New Jersey (Jefferson, Carter, Harris)
ATL (Joe Johnson, Bibby, Horford, J.Smith)
LA (Kobe, Odom, Fisher)

So again, please spare me this garbage about us beating undermanned teams. We are trotting out a dude that we just signed to a 10 day....

[Solid D]

With all due respect your spamship...

The Rockets defensive FG % is predicated on

A. A 7'5 behemoth(who is no longer in the lineup)

and

B. Injuries to the top interior scoring threats of virtually every good team team they have played in this streak.


If their streak is still going when they play the Spurs...it will end that night.

That is something that will get the Spurs excited.

Well, point A. isn't supported since the Rockets have held their opponents to 324-830 (.390) without Yao during the streak.

[whottt]

Well, point A. isn't supported since the Rockets have held their opponents to 324-830 (.390) without Yao during the streak.

Point A is supported by the last 5-6 seasons of Rockets Def FG% since Yao joined the team.


He's 7'5...he blocks shots. S'not hard to see how he has an impact.

[whottt]

Please stop griping about the teams that we are playing. Against LA we trotted out a lineup of:

Mutombo (41 yr old center who is a complete liability on offense)
Scola (rookie who half you say is worse than Bonner)
Hayes (another liability on offense)
Harris (dude we picked up on a 10 day contract)


We are missing arguably the best center in basketball (at worse the #2 center), so please spare me the garbage about other teams being without their top players.

I don't see any Rockets fans expecting us to do much damage in the playoffs or get out of the first round at that with this undermanned team. We are just appreciating the streak. But since you want to look at the schedule (I/m going from when we got hot around January), when we were at full strength we beat:

Exactly...you guys aren't that good. Could not agree more.


And I agree you deserve props for winning 22 in a row

[Solid D]

Point A is supported by the last 5 seasons of Def FG% since Yao joined the team.


He's 7'5...he blocks shots. S'not hard to see how he has an impact.

The last 5 seasons is not relative to the argument regarding this season under Adelman. Remember your own premise and stick with it please.

[whottt]

The last 5 seasons is not relative to the argument regarding this season under Adelman. Remember your own premise and stick with it please.

My premise this season is that Yao is still 7'5 and a shotblocker, no matter who is coaching.


And as for this season, or more recently this stretch...saying Bynum, Gasol, Dirk, etc. being out isn't a factor in the Rockets ability to hold teams to 39%...is ludicrous.

For those guys get theirs even against good defensive teams.

[whottt]

Do the Rockets have a healthy guy over 6'10 other than Dikembe?



And you don't think it going to be a problem against LA, the Suns etc? It's going to be a huge problem for them.

[Solid D]

Your circular reasoning that only acts as a continuation of a thread does little against the facts of the matter. I am just here to remind you of it even though I'm doing it with one eye watching the Spurs game...which is enough in this case.

[whottt]

Your circular reasoning that only acts as a continuation of a thread does little against the facts of the matter. I just here to remind you of it even though I'm doing it with one eye while watching the Spurs game...which is enough in this case.

There's nothing circular about my premise at all...


Defense won't be as much of an emphasis from the team perspective under Adelman as it was under Van Gundy.

That doesn't mean Yao won't still be a defensive presence and a defense loving player won't still be loving defense.

But the demand for it from the coach isn't going to be there...it's really not that complicated.


It's exactly like what happened with the Pistons when Flip took over. Yao may still be a presence, Battier may still like playing D...but Adelman isn't going to be ripping them or benching them based on a defensive criteria like Van Gundy did....like Pop would...so the major impetus to focus on D is gone.


And...Gasol, Odom and Dirk being out does make it easier to beat their teams.

[Dreamshake]

They are commited to defense like Flip Saunders Pistons have been commited to Larry Brown's defense....it's there, but the same emphasis won't be.

This is where talking non knowledgeable idiots get exposed.


Please tell me the Rockets Defensive team rankings were last year, and please tell me what they are this year. I guess almost 70 games into this season it is truely "not the same"

Ill help you out. Right in the same place. This year they are first in the conference in opp fg% and second in the conference in opp ppg. Last year same places. Looks like you are an internet liar.

You know, if your just going to spout out any bull in the name of stupidity, then at least put a foreword to your ramble...here something like this.


Hi my name is whottt. I like to make up bull , post lies that are supposed to be fact and overall try to impress with my loud talk and rambling mess of lies in order to gain some kind of percieved notion of having some basketball knowledge. Furthermore, I understand that this makes me look as if I am a complete johnson to those who know better, but Im really just hoping the drones who don't know any better except me for a knowledgeable person. Thank you and have a good day.

[whottt]

This is where talking non knowledgeable idiots get exposed.


Please tell me the Rockets Defensive team rankings were last year, and please tell me what they are this year. I guess almost 70 games into this season it is truely "not the same"

Ill help you out. Right in the same place. This year they are first in the conference in opp fg% and second in the conference in opp ppg. Last year same places. Looks like you are an internet liar.

You know, if your just going to spout out any bull in the name of stupidity, then at least put a foreword to your ramble...here something like this.


Hi my name is whottt. I like to make up bull , post lies that are supposed to be fact and overall try to impress with my loud talk and rambling mess of lies in order to gain some kind of percieved notion of having some basketball knowledge. Furthermore, I understand that this makes me look as if I am a complete johnson to those who know better, but Im really just hoping the drones who don't know any better except me for a knowledgeable person. Thank you and have a good day.

Good lord...you are ing stupid. Seriously...can you read at all?


Shut up..read, then post. Don't come in here making an ass of youself because you have no clue what anyone else is agruing about.


Shut up...read...then apologize.

[Solid D]

16 in a row does not = 22.

I pretty much think you wouldn't have won 22 games if Yao hadn't got injured.

The Kings actually had 1 or 2 really good defensive teams...but ultimately, they weren't a true defensive team. And neither are the Rockets....

The Rockets defensive FG % is predicated on

A. A 7'5 behemoth

[whottt]

What is so hard to understand?


Van Gundy forced them to play D Adelman doesn't...this doesn't mean they aren't a good defensive team, after all they had a coach drilling it into their heads for the past 5 seasons...they also have some good defensive personnel.


But Adelman isn't going to subs ute or bench based on defensive play like Van Gundy would. It's not a case of play D or die...


So ultimately, they won't play D or die...like a true defensive team would.



I mean seriously...some of those guys would not even be in the rotation if Van Gundy was the coach.


And that's exactly what happened to the Pistons...they were still a good defensive team, in fact I think they were statistically better...but ultimately they weren't as committed to defense under Saunders as they were under Brown.

[Dreamshake]

Ok check. Did that and I found this

They are commited to defense like Flip Saunders Pistons have been commited to Larry Brown's defense....it's there, but the same emphasis won't be

Then I found this

Defense won't be as much of an emphasis from the team perspective under Adelman as it was under Van Gundy.

To which has been pointed out to your already that the Rockets sit in the exact same place in Defense as they did last year under Gundy. How is that "not the same emphasis"???? Sounds like fuzzy math to me man.

Then you say something stupid like this

The Rockets defensive FG % is predicated on

A. A 7'5 behemoth(who is no longer in the lineup)

To which someone embarrassed you with this

Well, point A. isn't supported since the Rockets have held their opponents to 324-830 (.390) without Yao during the streak.

Which you try to deflect away as being a product of not having some tool like Bynum in a lineup. Ok once again...they are at the same rank as last year, and are actually playing better team D this year then last.

Do you always make it this easy?

[Dreamshake]

What is so hard to understand?


Van Gundy forced them to play D Adelman doesn't...this doesn't mean they aren't a good defensive team, after all they had a coach drilling it into their heads for the past 5 seasons...they also have some good defensive personnel.

Adelman has had several great defensive teams. Go learn the history of this game chump.

But Adelman isn't going to subs ute or bench based on defensive play like Van Gundy would. It's not a case of play D or die...

Oh you mean when during a free throw time out he subs ued the 10 day contract Mike Harris in for regular rotation player Luther Head to add size and strength to defend against the subs ution Phil had just made....idiot. You seriously just make up.

So ultimately, they won't play D or die...like a true defensive team would.

Once again, the Rox are a better team defensively this year then they were last year. Whats so hard for you to figure out that this isn't a 10 game stretch. Its damn near the entire season.

I mean seriously...some of those guys would not even be in the rotation if Van Gundy was the coach.

Which is basically why he lost his job. He couldn't relent on his doghouse or rotations to help the team win. And Van Gundy never had the Rockets in first place in the tough ass WC either.


This really is getting to be way too easy.

[whottt]

Idiot...you don't have any clue what this argument is about...you are just arguing.

You know how the dog pushes back whenever you push against him...that's what you are doing fool...without having a ing clue what point I am making.



I just want to make sure you are on record:


1. You are saying Adelman is as much of a defense oriented coach as JVG.
2. You are saying Yao isn't a defensive presence(after stupidly proving my point that he was without even realizing it).

3. You don't think the Lakers starting PF and C being out, nor the MVP being out, are factors in your teams defense since Yao went down.



That is what you are saying if you are arguing against me... ing idiot.


Don't jump into arguments when you don't what you or anyone else is talking about...idiot.


Just shut up.





Stop wasting my time.

[Nasir_Jones]

Idiot...you don't have any clue what this argument is about...you are just arguing.

You know how the dog pushes back whenever you push against him...that's what you are doing fool...without having a ing clue what point I am making.



I just want to make sure you are on record:


1. You are saying Adelman is as much of a defense oriented coach as JVG.
2. You are saying Yao isn't a defensive presence(after stupidly proving my point that he was without even realizing it).

3. You don't think the Lakers starting PF and C being out, nor the MVP being out, are factors in your teams defense since Yao went down.



That is what you are saying if you are arguing against me... ing idiot.


Don't jump into arguments when you don't what you or anyone else is talking about...idiot.


Just shut up.





Stop wasting my time.

Hahaha.... well..

I just read every post in this thread.. and reading this post was the last straw... I just had to register.

If it was someone on a Wizards forum spewin this nonsense (I know, there really aren't any good wizards forums.. one of the reasons I'm here), then I would be embarrassed for the image of my team's fans, and tell him to STFU.

But,, this is a Spurs forum... so I'll just go ahead and let one person ruin my opinion of the knowledge of Spurs fans