Obama or Hillary?

[peewee's lovechild]

...I think we are starting to see the real face of Obama critics - anti-affirmative action, anti-civil rights.....you all know the type...they act like discrimination doesn't happen anymore because it doesn't happen to them....

You're an idiot.

Really.

I'm a first generation American. I'm a minority. I was a migrant worker as a kid.

Discrimination? Racism?

I've lived through them both.

So, don't you try and group me in with a racist group just because I don't believe in Barack Obama.

You're showing your blatant stupidity.

By the way, are you making a case that all those who criticize Barack Obama are racist?? Is that what you're trying to do here?

Think very carefully before you respond to that question.
If you respond at all to that question, that is.

[peewee's lovechild]

Being "offended" by what Wright said requires denial that black Americans have any legitimate grievances resulting from their treatment by white Americans over the last 220+ years. What's wrong with being offended is that being offended is the product of intellectual dishonesty....

If a Mexican-American were to do that, he/she'd be crucified by the public.

No question about it.

Being that immigration is a hot topic, that Mexican-American would get fried and politicians would be jumping up and down saying, "That's why we need a 40 foot fence on the Mexican border!!"

Never mind that there are deep racist sentiments towards Mexican-Americans.

, they wouldn't serve my brother at a Cracker Barrel in South Carolina last year. When they finally got around to sitting my brother and his co-worker, who is also Mexican-American, after an hour of waiting when there were empty tables in front of them, they were put in a table that had been moved to a corner next to the swinging kitchen doors.

Would we Mexican-Americans get the same "oh-they're-just-responding-to-years-of-discrimination-and-hatred" if we shouted "God damn America" from the top of our lungs?

[Extra Stout]

I think that the Obama campaign probably released this themselves, every wingnut media shill has caught onto the Wright issue, but in all seriousness, the PA primary is still weeks away and the M$M that is really helping to pimp this story for now has a very, very, short attention span...besides, the people who are hurt by this would not have voted for Obama anyway - caucasion males......

....if anything I'm encouraged that Obama was able to turn this issue into a positive instead of going negative on Hillary - like asking why she hasn't released her tax statements....

...and I would take Extra Stout's predictions with a big grain of salt until he builds some sort of track record...

Wow, I didn't even post in this thread and I'm in your head! Seeing your sheer panic only adds to the schadenfreude.

[RandomGuy]

If a Mexican-American were to do that, he/she'd be crucified by the public.

No question about it.

Being that immigration is a hot topic, that Mexican-American would get fried and politicians would be jumping up and down saying, "That's why we need a 40 foot fence on the Mexican border!!"

Never mind that there are deep racist sentiments towards Mexican-Americans.

, they wouldn't serve my brother at a Cracker Barrel in South Carolina last year. When they finally got around to sitting my brother and his co-worker, who is also Mexican-American, after an hour of waiting when there were empty tables in front of them, they were put in a table that had been moved to a corner next to the swinging kitchen doors.

Would we Mexican-Americans get the same "oh-they're-just-responding-to-years-of-discrimination-and-hatred" if we shouted "God damn America" from the top of our lungs?

I wouldn't hold it much against anybody for being kinda pissed at that kind of stuff.

The guys that grew up in the 40s and 50s lived that stuff. Better to ask your father/grandfather what HE thought of such treatment.

I fully support Obama, but know that not everybody who doesn't like him is some kind of racist.

Are there some that are? Sure, and you won't get a good number of them to admit it.

But, for the most part, the people who really dislike the guy are more rabidly conservative and hate him because he is a liberal more than anything else.

People like Xray who are willing to believe the worst about anybody simply because they don't agree with them.

[Extra Stout]

...I think we are starting to see the real face of Obama critics - anti-affirmative action, anti-civil rights.....you all know the type...they act like discrimination doesn't happen anymore because it doesn't happen to them....

If you didn't like what Jeremiah Wright said, you're a racist!

That's the wrong set of talking points. Read some more blogs and try again.

[Extra Stout]

Being "offended" by what Wright said requires denial that black Americans have any legitimate grievances resulting from their treatment by white Americans over the last 220+ years. What's wrong with being offended is that being offended is the product of intellectual dishonesty....

Legitimate grievances like inventing AIDS and infecting black people with it? Was that the same conspiracy that carried out 9/11?

I wish I could help you find the right blogs to read that won't just make you dig a deeper hole, but I probably don't read them.

[101A]

I...
People like Xray who are willing to believe the worst about anybody simply because they don't agree with them.

Why'd you single out Ray.

That quote works for about 70% of the posters on this board.

[peewee's lovechild]

The guys that grew up in the 40s and 50s lived that stuff. Better to ask your father/grandfather what HE thought of such treatment.

My grandparents never ed about it.
They knew what the game was, and they knew they couldn't change the way racist peoples acted.

They never asked for handouts. They never asked for special consideration. They just worked hard. Everything they had, they got through years of hard work.

My paternal grandfather came into this country as an illegal immigrant. He beame a legal resident and then he worked his way to Rail Foreman with Union Pacific. He worked his way to the top. He had to ignore the blatant racism that came his way. Yet, he never ed.

I'm sure he would've liked to have worked in a racist free environment, but the 70s-80s wasn't the right time for it.

Things have been improving now. I'm not saying that racism is gone and dead, but things are MUCH better than before. But, instead of concentratin on the postive progress in terms of race relations, Rev Wright chose to continue to dwell in the past. And, to justify his actions by claiming that they have years of hate and discrimination to work with, as Obama did, is counter productive.

[rascal]

I felt Obama addressed the race issue in America, more than the Wright issue.
It was a great speech and I agreed with many points that he made. But Obama defending Wright is what I have a problem with. The man gave Farakahn, a true racist, a lifetime achievement award.

Wrights sentiments are NOT what make real progress in this nation, it just further poisions the current generation.

What bothers me is if Obama, as a politican, knew of Wrights political sentiments and denouced them. Why then didn't Obama try to open Wright up to the truth all these years. If he can't even deal with his own pastor, how can he be expected to be steadfast when dealing with other world leaders of questionable character.

Thats what was dissapointing to me.

You just cannot see it. It is more impressive to be open minded to all views. Its a great starting point when dealing with world leaders instead of being stubborn and steadfast in your beliefs like what you propose would make a good leader.

[rascal]

A few of Rev. Wrights comments.





Rev. Wright is a blatant racist with hate and rage principally towards whites. If for 20 years, Obama could sit at the feet of this hatemonger and NOT be mortified at his venemous spewings or denounce the man, he is not the president for me. Mr. Obama is obviously duplicitious at the least ,and complicitious by his not getting up and walking out on his “pastor” of some twenty years. I was really looking forward to his speech and getting this Wright situation behind him, but he really dissapointed me by NOT denouncing Wright.

You almost had me Obama, not anymore.

Denouncing Wright would be less noble. A few sound bites is all you heard from Wright and you make a judgment solely on that. Obama clearly came out and said he did not support those sound bites played over and over again on conservative radio talk shows. Can't you see what this really is or are you weak minded and easily influenced by what you hear on the radio.

Its just a movement to take down a Democrate that the Republicans felt was strong enough to win in Nov. And you fall for what conservative talk radio wants you to believe, like a tool. The problem is this country has too many tools like yourself that are not smart enough to make up their own minds but instead let others do it for them.

[some_user86]

A few of Rev. Wrights comments.





Rev. Wright is a blatant racist with hate and rage principally towards whites. If for 20 years, Obama could sit at the feet of this hatemonger and NOT be mortified at his venemous spewings or denounce the man, he is not the president for me. Mr. Obama is obviously duplicitious at the least ,and complicitious by his not getting up and walking out on his “pastor” of some twenty years. I was really looking forward to his speech and getting this Wright situation behind him, but he really dissapointed me by NOT denouncing Wright.

You almost had me Obama, not anymore.

What was racist about those sentiments? Is it because a colored man is calling out white aristocracy that is the problem? With the exception of inventing HIV (which geneticists could only dream of in the '80s [we design viruses now, but they're quite simple in behavior and are to introduce beneficial genes]), I saw nothing in there that was close to racist. Wright was calling it like it is. There was no prejudiced thought in there. Highlight for me a single point out of that post where you feel disparaged (besides the unscientific HIV carp).

[Extra Stout]

The "HIV crap" is more than unscientific. It is delusional. It is insane. You compare it to gene therapy. Wright accused the United States government of inventing a biological weapon and using it to kill millions of black people in Africa.

Look. I get it. Obama didn't have a father figure or a black man to look up to in his life. Rev. Wright is a very smart man who challenged Obama. There is a lot more to his theology than the crazy stuff he says. Humans are complex creatures with good and bad and you don't turn your back on loved ones because of their flaws. You also don't turn your back on the community you belong to at the drop of a hat, even though Americans so often thinks of changing church families the same way the do painting a wall a different color.

But please stop rationalizing the crazy things Wright said. Stop insulting everybody's intelligence. At least Barack Obama had the decency to treat us like adults, instead of children or sheep.

[some_user86]

The "HIV crap" is more than unscientific. It is delusional. It is insane. You compare it to gene therapy. Wright accused the United States government of inventing a biological weapon and using it to kill millions of black people in Africa.

Look. I get it. Obama didn't have a father figure or a black man to look up to in his life. Rev. Wright is a very smart man who challenged Obama. There is a lot more to his theology than the crazy stuff he says. Humans are complex creatures with good and bad and you don't turn your back on loved ones because of their flaws. You also don't turn your back on the community you belong to at the drop of a hat, even though Americans so often thinks of changing church families the same way the do painting a wall a different color.

But please stop rationalizing the crazy things Wright said. Stop insulting everybody's intelligence. At least Barack Obama had the decency to treat us like adults, instead of children or sheep.

I am sorry, did I try to rationalize Wright's HIV statements? I thought I was pretty clear that I didn't. I thought I had established it was stupid. Where's the beef?


No, my question was, where in GaryJohnston's post containing Wright's comments are there these so-called racist sentiments?

[LakerMagic]

Denouncing Wright would be less noble. A few sound bites is all you heard from Wright and you make a judgment solely on that. Obama clearly came out and said he did not support those sound bites played over and over again on conservative radio talk shows. Can't you see what this really is or are you weak minded and easily influenced by what you hear on the radio.

Its just a movement to take down a Democrate that the Republicans felt was strong enough to win in Nov. And you fall for what conservative talk radio wants you to believe, like a tool. The problem is this country has too many tools like yourself that are not smart enough to make up their own minds but instead let others do it for them.

Actually Im a registered democrat. It doesnt take crazy right-wing media for some to see how divisive Wrights comments were. And if you can't see them, you are blinded. I just can't see how you can defend a man who made all those anti-american statements. And how denouncing him would be "less noble" Please.......

But back to my original question that no one can answer. Why is okay for Obama to call for Don Imus head, and then defend Wrights comments?


GO HILLARY!

[Nbadan]

Why is okay for Obama to call for Don Imus head, and then defend Wrights comments?

If you can't find the answer to your question in the past few posts then you are dense....

[peewee's lovechild]

If you can't find the answer to your question in the past few posts then you are dense....

Then, why can't you take a stand and answer that question?

[LakerMagic]

If you can't find the answer to your question in the past few posts then you are dense....

So basically you have no answer. Just like I thought. Okay, thanks for playing.




Clintons '08

[Homeland Security]

Then, why can't you take a stand and answer that question?

When this Nbadan character first heard the inflammatory comments made by the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright, Jr., he clapped and cheered. His only criticism is that the Rev. Dr. did not go far enough in condemning America.

You people forget just how sophisticated our monitoring equipment is.

[some_user86]

Ok, so, I am wearing a different tint of glass than some of you guys, but I fail to see what was inflammatory about 8 of the 9 statements from Mr. Wright that GaryJohnston posted.

I am quite curious about this.

If someone is agitated by these comments, could they please quote that exact statement from GaryJohnston's post and give me an explanation of the inflammatory nature of that statement.

Let's drop the rhetoric and speak honestly about the "racistness" of the comments.

[some_user86]

Ok, so since no one can seem to find any strength to muster a response to my question, let me go point by point and show how I came to the conclusion that Dr. Wright made some debatable, sometimes stupid comments, but most definitely not racists or Anti-American comments.

– September 2001: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”

Stupid comment, but no racism there...

– September 2001: “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.”

Debatable (possibly true, possibly not), but I don't see racism here... I guess, I kinda agree with what he is saying, but that's human nature. We humans are selfish creatures and only see grief when it happens to us.

– September 2001: “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because of stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own backyard. America is chickens coming home to roost.”

As a Ron Paulian, I consider this true. Even if you find the issue debatable, I can't see how there is racism or bigotry there...

– April 2003: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes three-strike laws and wants them to sing God Bless America. No! No No! God damn America … for killing innocent people. God damn America for threatening citizens as less than humans. God damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme.”

Debatable, but I fail to see the racism. This is the point that everyone has been harping on as "Anti-American". If you come from that viewpoint and you believe in god (which I don't), is it not possible to see how a god would condemn a country for their wrongdoings? Did not Jerry Fallwell believe 9/11 was caused by "sins" of America? The ACLU harped on him, but that was because of Falwell's bigoted viewpoint. Where's the bigotry in this case? It's a debatable viewpoint, but it's not rooted in bigotry.

Oh, and good job on the selective cut and paste. The full quote reads: "No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people"

– December 2007: “Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people. Hillary would never know that.”

Again, where's the racism? Rich whites don't control a large portion of American society? It's kinda a stupid statement, considering that Obama comes from a white family too, albeit poorer, but ok. Still don't see the racism, though.

– December 2007: “Hillary ain’t never been called a ######. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.”

Probably true. She's probably never been called a ######, though people may have been sexist against her. But, again, I don't see racism.

– Jan. 13, 2008: “Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.”

Personal opinion, I suppose. Bill Clinton wasn't good for technology (DMCA) and fair use, so I suppose the tech industry could say he was riding them dirty too. But where's the bigotry?

– “Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college. … Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run.”

One can debate where he's going with this, but can you debate the factual basis of only the statements he stated? Does it offend someone?

– “We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional killers. … We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. … We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. … We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means.
And … And … And! God! Has got! To be sick! Of this !”

Highly controversial statement, and factually dubious. I don't know if the government is involved in importing drugs, and it seems like a dubious statement. But the War on Drugs is ridiculously stupid. By creating artificial barriers on the free market trade of drugs (which will, like pros ution or alcohol, happen whether you say no or not), you are artificially constricting supply, raising prices, and creating incentive for the creation of the drug cartels and gang-based drug distribution in America. It's stupid. And it's the individual's responsibility. All though, I don't see how Dr. Wright can claim it's a black only issue. Middle-class, white America is rapidly becoming addicted to meth. A significant portion of my classmates in college abused Adderoll before test time. We export guns and have built armies in dubious relationship with dictators and thugs for our own short-sighted gains (See: '80s Afghanistan and Pakistan). Is this even debatable? We do it all the time. It's not wrong when it turns out ok (Israel). It's moronic when it goes to (again, Afghanistan). There is a large segment of white society that still believes in white supremacy (Ex: Stormfront WN Community), and the numbers aren't as small as some believe. Radiation experiments conducted by the U.S. government and others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r...on_experiments. The "ends justify the means": a o? Use of torture that McCain tried to prevent with a bill through Congress but Bush vetoed (I believe). Would not a god be sick of this? Oh, yeah, where's the racism.




So, with that said, I am stating that a lot of the people jumping on the "bigoted pastor" bandwagon are anti-Obama conservatives or Hillary supporters who are looking to exploit the situation to bring him down. It's kind of a "No, duh" statement. I fail to see the racism in the Dr. Wright's posts. I see a lot of boneheaded comments and some probably factually correct comments, but I don't see the racism. Are people offended that Dr. Wight still sees oppression where as they do not? I think people saw some controversial and stupid comments, saw a in the armor, and picked up the rhetoric to make it a crack.

[peewee's lovechild]

You're an idiot, and I'm not even going to argue with you.

But, how you glaze over a couple of the racist statements . . . whatever.

[some_user86]

You're an idiot, and I'm not even going to argue with you.

But, how you glaze over a couple of the racist statements . . . whatever.

Brilliant retort.

Listen, I keep missing the hate-speech so I asked for help. When no one responded, I posted a line-by-line walkthrough looking for it. I still couldn't find it. Here's a guy supposedly spouting racism worse than the KKK, and I'm having such a difficult time identifying where he's doing it. Get real. There's nothing as inflammatory about his speech then what you or big media would like to create.

[peewee's lovechild]

Brilliant retort.

Listen, I keep missing the hate-speech so I asked for help. When no one responded, I posted a line-by-line walkthrough looking for it. I still couldn't find it. Here's a guy supposedly spouting racism worse than the KKK, and I'm having such a difficult time identifying where he's doing it. Get real. There's nothing as inflammatory about his speech then what you or big media would like to create.

Ok, junior.

Get back to me when you re-read some of those statements.

[some_user86]

Ok, junior.

Get back to me when you re-read some of those statements.

I have. Over and over. There's nothing racist about them. Controversial in viewpoint? Probably. But racist? I don't see anywhere how he is denigrating the white race as inferior to the black race. I don't see anywhere where he is denigrating blacks as inferior to the white race. Where's the beef? I've been calling y'all out for the last several posts. No one has yet to step up to the plate. I'm don't think you have anything.




Oh, and "junior"? Seriously?