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WTF, you are quoting yourself and patting yourself on the back,
Not having a very good saturday are we????
Robinson
Duncan
Were you even a Spurs fan during David's prime? Dave never had anyone EVEN CLOSE to Manu or Tony around him. Jesus, some of these fans are ing nuts.
WTF, you are quoting yourself and patting yourself on the back,
Not having a very good saturday are we????
If a prime Admiral had Parker and Ginobili at their current abilities, they would be a superior regular season team for sure. Maybe a better playoff team because David wouldn't have all the pressure on him to score, and he would be a better defender than Duncan.
It seems Duncan has slipped a little bit the past 2-3 seasons, he has allowed Tony and Manu to become options 1B and 1C. Actually Ginobili and Parker probably see the ball a tad more than Duncan in terms of total possessions.
Duncan was awesome from 2002-2004 in regular season terms -- as good as Olajuwon and almost as good as Prime Drob.
But Prime Drob was on a Shaq 2000 /Jordan type of level of dominance.
I guess I would take prime Drob. But Duncan has had more luck and success in the playoffs, thats for sure. Hard to say if Duncan would matchup with Hakeem -- he certainly is a similar caliber player in terms of building a 50+ team around him.
WTF, you are quoting yourself and patting yourself on the back,
Not having a very good saturday are we????
You kidding? I've been waiting all year for a good Drob/Hakeem or Drob/Duncan argument...
Unlike yourself...most everyone else knows better than to get me started on it
They've seen it all before...
Who gets the ball first?
Duncan is doing the same thing for them that David Robinson did for him...he's stepping back and letting his younger teamates have their day in the Sun.
I hope Spur fans pay attention to that.
Duncan just wanted to win a championship more than David...he wanted it for different reasons, he wanted it in a different way, he approached getting it in a different way.
David wanted to win one...but it was because he felt it was his duty, thus his efforts were basically limited to what he did on the court with his talent...and what he did on the court was simply amazing. But once he was off the court, it was out of his mind. It wasn't a passion for him like it was with Duncan.
He carried worse teams than Duncan has ever had to carry...and he carried them well all things considered. He carried them better than just about any player in NBA history.
But if they lost? David would say, well, we did our best guys. Make sure you say your prayers and tell your mom's that you love them. IT doesn't define you.
Duncan's like: I am in Orlando if you don't put a championship team around me. I didn't come here to lose.
And the first le before Duncan started flexing his muscle wasn't luck either...it would have been a huge didappointment if the Duncan Robinson pairing hadn't lead to an NBA championship...it should have lead to more IMO.
But this argument is about one on one...and David's just too much of a physical freak, he always was. No one could guard him one on one. He would dunk on them. On all of them. Mercilessly.
Seems like the younger Spurs fans have the upper hand up till now.
In closing I'll just say...
Only two players in NBA history have won a scoring le and a DPOY award...David Robinson and Michael Jordan...Duncan hasn't done either.
Only one Center has scored more points in a game than David Robinson...and that's Wilt Chamberlain.
At the time of his back injury he was the all time leader in blocks per game.
That is versatility unmatched by any other bigman. By any other...since blocks were recorded.
You are asking a lot of Duncan...I don't doubt Duncan will hunger to win more...but that isn't going to make him faster, or a better jumper, or bigger, or longer, or stronger...
Duncan better hope that bank shot is working...
IF it makes you guys feel any better...DRob might be the last guy I'd ever pick as a GM or coach...and Duncan would be among the first(out of bigmen, I take him after I take Horry)
Except that Duncan struggles against bigs with length and athleticism. Just watch when he's facing a Rasheed Wallace, Yao Ming, Dalembert, Diop, etc. Even Horry gave TD a TON of trouble in the 2001 WCF.
Robinson has the exact build and style of a defender you would want to stop Duncan. I think he'd eat him up 1 on 1, but I'd easily take Duncan to start a franchise with.
Robinson-Olajuwon would have been the most fun 1 on 1 matchup to watch because of the athletic gifts each had.
Both in their prime? It's hard to tell, but I'm going with Duncan.
He has more post moves, better footwork, more range and fundamentals, and in my opinion fundamentals are more important than athleticism.
Huh??? The LAST guy?? I agree with you all the way about David being the superior 1-1 player but... Horry? Horry only works if you have other good players to carry the team.
I'm talking about General Mangager or coach...not 1 on 1.
I think Horry would make a good coach.
And I wouldn't pickl David for that because I really don't think he has the best instincts for that sort of thing.
On top of that...he damn sure couldn't teach anyone how to play the game, how do you teach being an athletic freak...and that's what he knows.
First of all.... i would argue Duncan is 'stronger' than D-Rob. Id say Tim would be harder to back down and box out of a rebound given his much wider base and bigger core. D Rob would win a weight lifting contest though.
In terms of length, even though D Rob had about.. 2 inches on Tim, i would say Tim had a higher standing reach... David had a very tall head (for lack of a better description) and a long neck which gave him the extra couple inches... if you look at photos of them... their shoulders were at about the same height... and i would say Tim definately had the longer arms.
Id say this is the biggest reason Tim doesnt foul nearly as much as other shot blocking big men.... Timmy would actually block shots WITHOUT leaving the ground.... he would get into position and maybe get up on his tip toes and reach up. it was ridiculous... obviously timing had a huge part to play with alot of his blocks also.
Duncan was a far better rebounder than D-Rob....especially in traffic and in a crowd... his game was just much more suited to a 5-on-5 game and and play off basketball. timvp says one was lucky and the other was unlucky...i say thats ridiculous. A back to the basket player will always be more effective than a big man who shoots 15 foot jumpers ... its much easier to dictate the terms of a game from passing and scoring and opening things up for others.
Thats the main reason Hakeem had alot more success in the play offs than D-Rob... his game was made for playoff basketball... D-Rob put up the better stats but i say you put Hakeem on those Spurs teams, they may not win more during the regular season.... but when it gets to grinding out touch playoff environment games with playoff calls...those Spurs team with Hakeem instead of D-Rob go a little further.
Now to the question of a one on one game... D Rob wins about 7 out of 10
ROFL... David didn't even LIKE basketball...
I'm sorry dude... David wasn't the best player to ever play the game... I know you light candles, pull out the lotion and watch your recorded games from 1991 but the guy had nowhere near the competative spirit or killer instinct Timmy does.
OR Basektball IQ. Tim will find a weakness and destroy you. David while SMART enough to find the weakness... would probably get bored.
Hey, put all the subjective and uknown factors that you have absolutely no information on in Duncan's favor that you want....
Everyone is en led to their opinion.
But like I said...David was the guy that won the scoring les and the DPOY awards...he's also the guy that lead the league in rebounding and blocks...
So let me just get this straight...
Robinson is the guy that lead the league in scoring, rebounds, blocks(in some cases multiple times), scored at a higher FG% than Duncan, both from the field and from the line he's the one with the DPOY award...
But Duncan is the guy that is the better shotblocker, scorer, defender rebounder etc?
Got it.
I guess David just was the best in the league at all those things because there were fewer great bigmen back then.
I mean Shaq of 2008 kicks the crap out of Shaq of 94...ZaZa Pachulia would have been a stud if he'd been going up against lightweights like Hakeem and Shaq in their primes.
He played basketball near all year round, representing his country and his NBA team, until his body broke down. He played with a back condition that left him with no feeling in his legs at the end of his career, guarding ing Shaq.
He played in more Team USA games than any player in history, much of it while he was playing for the Spurs.
And you can tell how much he hates the game by the fact that he is at nearly every home game and follows them on the road in the playoffs.
I'm sorry dude... David wasn't the best player to ever play the game... I know you light candles, pull out the lotion and watch your recorded games from 1991 but the guy had nowhere near the competative spirit or killer instinct Timmy does.
You mean like the killer instinct that leads him to say he'll never play FIBA again?
Or the killer instinct that gets him held to 5 points in a playoff game?
Or destroyed by the Lakers?
Dude, i do think that David is a better defender but stop overating it compared to Duncan's D. He could have easily won DPOY about 4 times in his career and if you are being at all fair you will concede to that. Duncan has made 1st team all D like a million times. You are coming off like D-Rob was a GOD on D and Duncan is average. And David was never i repeat NEVER the best in the league at his position. Was he better all time than Hakeem?? no. Was he better at his position than Shaq?? Not in my opinion?? Ewing he was better than i''ll give him that. Duncan has been a better all time player than Shaq. He has won just as much at a younger age with less pieces. Give Duncan Kobe and they win the next 5 les. It is wonderful that D-Rob was a stat stuffer, that did not get his team to the finals in his prime. That is why i rate him behind Duncan. He should have got one of those teams to the finals in his prime the way the west was back then. Like i said before MJ and the Bulls were not in his way every year, like Ewing and others had to deal with in the playoffs.
I think you are shortchanging Robinson a bit here. I agree that early in his career he probably didn't look at basketball as anything more than a job. Even then, he gave everything he had and left it all out on the court. He played through all types of adversity, from coaching changes, to injuries to bad teammates.
However, late in Robinson's career, I think his passion for winning grew. By 1999, Robinson wanted to win probably as much as anyone on that team. By that time, he no longer cared about stats, personal success, playing with class or anything like that. He just wanted to win. By 2003, Robinson was almost Duncan-esque in his passion for winning. I think Robinson's injury in 1997 was some sort of wake up call for him that no matter what he did on the court and the class he showed while doing so, that it basically all comes down to winning championships. Earlier in his career, Robinson probably thought it was enough just to give 100% himself because that's all he could control.
But yeah, Duncan might be the most obsessed with winning bigman in NBA history. I don't think he cares about anything other than winning a championship. Anything less than a championship is a massive failure for him. Where as Robinson was loyal to the fanbase, teammates, owners, coaches and everyone else he came in contact with, Duncan's loyalty begins and ends with championships. If Duncan could trade Pop, Manu, Parker, his wife and the city of San Antonio for the next three championships, he'd ask where to sign to consummate the deal.
Or the killer instict to win 4 les, 3 finals MVP's one of which he did on 2 bum ankles.
Scary day-- a thread where I agree with timvp and Whott.
I choose David. People forget just how amazingly athletic he was. He could run like a deer at that height and size.
I think he's a bit past his prime but at his prime Duncan was a better low post player and broke down a defense by commanding a double team in the post, opening up the perimeter, better than DRob. That counts for a lot in playoff basketball and was a large part of all those Spurs' le banners hanging in the rafters, a reason the Nellie type small ball never worked against Duncan's Spurs but did against DRob's.
Or the killer instict to win 4 les, 3 finals MVP's one of which he did on 2 bum ankles.
Well hey...I guess Chauncey Billups and Tony Parker have more killer instinct than Manu Ginobili...after all, Manu doesn't have a finals MVP.
Come to think of it...Kobe and LeBron have zero finals MVP's...so I guess that means a back court of Chauncy and Tony would kick the out of Kobe and LeBron.
Damn...I'm sorry, but it's actually painful to make myself that stupid...I'll leave it to you.
So, how about those Suns? I tell you...you sure can tell how a bigman impacts a team
Now you are just being ridiculous, you are on one side then the other. First Duncan wants it more than anyone and now you act like "Nah maybe not" i'm done with this one, on to the Dallas game and that actually matters going forward.
Later.
Td
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