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  1. #51
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    you fail miserably at putting forth an argument that might actually make an impression on undecideds and moderates who haven't already made up their minds based on the (R) or (D) next to the candidates' names.
    Do we have any of the people on this forum. I don't
    recall anyone here who is undecided or moderate in any
    way, shape, form or fashion......

  2. #52
    What's the Word? Don Quixote's Avatar
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    Conservatives trained on daily diets of Fox News don't even know why they dislike Obama. You have plenty of reasons to, but you spend so much time on bullplop.
    Hmm. Let's unpack this. First, I probably don't need to point out problems with the whole FoxNews=conservative thing again. Even if FNC is conservative, that does not mean that only right-wingers watch it, or that watching it will make you conservative.

    Second, conservatives do have good reason to distrust Obama, although not dislike him. I don't have anything personal against the man. But he has gone on record as being (again, I speak very generally, this is a msg board) (a) dovish on foreign policy, (b) liberal on economic and "size-of-government" issues (raise taxes, more en lements), (c) liberal on family issues (pro-abortion, pro-gay-"marriage"), and (d) not sufficiently vigilant on securing the border.

    Put that together with his well-do ented past associations with radical leftists, and conservatives can make a pretty decent case for rejecting an Obama presidency.

    Notice I didn't say anything about his his religion, or his middle name. Irrelevant.

  3. #53
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Hmm. Let's unpack this. First, I probably don't need to point out problems with the whole FoxNews=conservative thing again. Even if FNC is conservative, that does not mean that only right-wingers watch it, or that watching it will make you conservative.
    Faux News is like a bad train wreck, you know it's going to be gristly, but sometimes you can't help but look....

  4. #54
    Stomping on Laker haters Purple & Gold's Avatar
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    Yet he claims to be a man of change, what
    change? More liberalism, more big government.
    I thought Repubs were for big government??

  5. #55
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    Conservatives are against big spending and government unless it is one of their own in the White House.

  6. #56
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Conservatives are against big spending and government unless it is one of their own in the White House.
    NO. Big govt. sucks; regardless of who is behind it.

  7. #57
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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    Yes, let's talk about his politics, and we can start by posting a non-specific rant by a partisan pundit. This is what election year dialogue has become. Awesome.
    +1

  8. #58
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Conservatives are against big spending and government unless it is one of their own in the White House.
    Depends on what they spend it on. Defense, okay.
    Security of the country, okay. BS programs. Wrong.

    Oh, and Bush is no Conservative. He is a RINO. Just
    like McCain will be. But both Bush and McCain make
    Obama and Hillary look like third rate politicians, which
    they are.

  9. #59
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    Hmm. Let's unpack this. First, I probably don't need to point out problems with the whole FoxNews=conservative thing again. Even if FNC is conservative, that does not mean that only right-wingers watch it, or that watching it will make you conservative.
    I wasn't intending to make a statement tying Fox News with Conservatives, that's another discussion altogether. Fox News is simply representative of the political coverage that appeals more to this country's obsession with celebrity and scandal than its interest in real issues of policy. Most mainstream political news coverage is just a step up from TMZ.

    Second, conservatives do have good reason to distrust Obama, although not dislike him. I don't have anything personal against the man. But he has gone on record as being (again, I speak very generally, this is a msg board) (a) dovish on foreign policy, (b) liberal on economic and "size-of-government" issues (raise taxes, more en lements), (c) liberal on family issues (pro-abortion, pro-gay-"marriage"), and (d) not sufficiently vigilant on securing the border.

    Put that together with his well-do ented past associations with radical leftists, and conservatives can make a pretty decent case for rejecting an Obama presidency.

    Notice I didn't say anything about his his religion, or his middle name. Irrelevant.
    Exactly. But we rarely debate these points. We spend more time talking about his Pledge of Allegience etiquette, his smoking habits, his pastors, his race, etc. Given that most moderates probably don't care about any of these things, just like we didn't care about whether or not GW Bush skipped out of National Guard service in 1971, it would be better for his opponents to avoid the sensationalist crap and challenge his policies.

  10. #60
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    Obama should say on every speach, at least twice, that he is proud of his country.

    Otherwise, he does not get my vote!

  11. #61
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    Depends on what they spend it on. Defense, okay.
    Security of the country, okay
    Yes!

    More weapons and money to the Homeland Security Agency!

  12. #62
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Conservatives are against big spending and government unless it is one of their own in the White House.
    Joe, here is what Dr. Walter Williams has to say about
    the Cons ution, government spending and our Presidential
    candidates. It is a good column and kinda says it all, much
    better than I could or can. Please note, not all Presidents
    were for public welfare.




    Political Loathsomeness
    By Walter E. Williams
    Wednesday, April 9, 2008

    Do any of the prospective nominees of either party deserve respect from the American people? The answer partially depends on your knowledge, values and respect for the U.S Cons ution.

    When either Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton or John McCain take office, they are going to place their hand on the Bible and take the oath, "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Cons ution of the United States."

    It will be a phony affirmation, but what's worse is that the chief justice of the United States, who administers the oath, and the average American will believe the new president.

    You say, "Hey, Williams, that's a pretty tall charge! Explain yourself." There's a measure introduced in every Congress since 1995, by Rep. John Shadegg, R-Ariz., called The Enumerated Powers Act that would require that all bills introduced in the U.S. Congress include a statement setting forth the specific cons utional authority under which the law is being enacted.

    The Enumerated Powers Act currently has 44 co-sponsors in the House. In the Senate, it has never had a single co-sponsor, and that's a Senate that includes our three presidential aspirants. The question one might ask is why would Sens. Obama, Clinton and McCain have a distaste for, and fail to support, a measure binding them to what the Cons ution actually permits?

    There's a two-part answer to that question. First, few congressmen, including our presidential aspirants, have the integrity, decency and courage to be bound by the Cons ution, but more important is that congressmen and presidents simply reflect the cons utional ignorance or contempt held by the American people.

    Most of what Congress is cons utionally authorized to spend for is listed in Article I, Section 8 of the Cons ution and includes: coining money, establish Post Offices, to support Armies and a few other activities. Today's federal budget is over $3 trillion dollars. I challenge anyone to find specific cons utional authority for at least $2 trillion of it. That includes Social Security, Medicare, farm and business handouts, education, prescription drugs and a host of other federal expenditures. Americans who have become accustomed to living at the expense of another American would not want Congress to obey the Cons ution, especially if it left out their favorite handout.

    A harebrained politician or lawyer might tell us that the Cons ution's general welfare clause authorizes those expenditures. Here's what James Madison, the acknowledged father of the Cons ution, said: "With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Cons ution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."

    Later, Madison added, "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions."

    Thomas Jefferson explained, "Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."

    At one time there were presidents who respected the Cons ution. Grover Cleveland vetoed hundreds of spending measures during his two-term presidency, often saying, "I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Cons ution." Then there was Franklin Pierce who said, after vetoing an appropriation to assist the mentally ill, "I cannot find any authority in the Cons ution for public charity," adding, "To approve such spending would be contrary to the letter and the spirit of the Cons ution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."

    We should consider ending the charade and get rid of our 200-year-plus presidential oath of office and replace it with: I accept the office of president.



    Dr. Williams serves on the faculty of George Mason University as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics and is the author of More Liberty Means Less Government: Our Founders Knew This Well.

    Be the first to read Walter Williams' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

    ©Creators Syndicate


    Copyright © 2008 Salem Web Network. All Rights
    Reserved.


    ===================

    Joe what do you think of the bill introduced about
    always including a statement U.S. Congress include a statement setting forth the specific cons utional authority under which the law is being enacted.

    Boy-o-boy would that put a crimp in their style....huh?

  13. #63
    Believe.
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    I thought Repubs were for big government??
    nah, just the corrupt soulless ones.

  14. #64
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Joe, here is what Dr. Walter Williams has to say about
    the Cons ution, government spending and our Presidential
    candidates. It is a good column and kinda says it all, much
    better than I could or can. Please note, not all Presidents
    were for public welfare.




    Political Loathsomeness
    By Walter E. Williams
    Wednesday, April 9, 2008

    Do any of the prospective nominees of either party deserve respect from the American people? The answer partially depends on your knowledge, values and respect for the U.S Cons ution.

    When either Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton or John McCain take office, they are going to place their hand on the Bible and take the oath, "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Cons ution of the United States."

    It will be a phony affirmation, but what's worse is that the chief justice of the United States, who administers the oath, and the average American will believe the new president.

    You say, "Hey, Williams, that's a pretty tall charge! Explain yourself." There's a measure introduced in every Congress since 1995, by Rep. John Shadegg, R-Ariz., called The Enumerated Powers Act that would require that all bills introduced in the U.S. Congress include a statement setting forth the specific cons utional authority under which the law is being enacted.

    The Enumerated Powers Act currently has 44 co-sponsors in the House. In the Senate, it has never had a single co-sponsor, and that's a Senate that includes our three presidential aspirants. The question one might ask is why would Sens. Obama, Clinton and McCain have a distaste for, and fail to support, a measure binding them to what the Cons ution actually permits?

    There's a two-part answer to that question. First, few congressmen, including our presidential aspirants, have the integrity, decency and courage to be bound by the Cons ution, but more important is that congressmen and presidents simply reflect the cons utional ignorance or contempt held by the American people.

    Most of what Congress is cons utionally authorized to spend for is listed in Article I, Section 8 of the Cons ution and includes: coining money, establish Post Offices, to support Armies and a few other activities. Today's federal budget is over $3 trillion dollars. I challenge anyone to find specific cons utional authority for at least $2 trillion of it. That includes Social Security, Medicare, farm and business handouts, education, prescription drugs and a host of other federal expenditures. Americans who have become accustomed to living at the expense of another American would not want Congress to obey the Cons ution, especially if it left out their favorite handout.

    A harebrained politician or lawyer might tell us that the Cons ution's general welfare clause authorizes those expenditures. Here's what James Madison, the acknowledged father of the Cons ution, said: "With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Cons ution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."

    Later, Madison added, "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions."

    Thomas Jefferson explained, "Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."

    At one time there were presidents who respected the Cons ution. Grover Cleveland vetoed hundreds of spending measures during his two-term presidency, often saying, "I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Cons ution." Then there was Franklin Pierce who said, after vetoing an appropriation to assist the mentally ill, "I cannot find any authority in the Cons ution for public charity," adding, "To approve such spending would be contrary to the letter and the spirit of the Cons ution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."

    We should consider ending the charade and get rid of our 200-year-plus presidential oath of office and replace it with: I accept the office of president.



    Dr. Williams serves on the faculty of George Mason University as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics and is the author of More Liberty Means Less Government: Our Founders Knew This Well.

    Be the first to read Walter Williams' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

    ©Creators Syndicate


    Copyright © 2008 Salem Web Network. All Rights
    Reserved.


    ===================

    Joe what do you think of the bill introduced about
    always including a statement U.S. Congress include a statement setting forth the specific cons utional authority under which the law is being enacted.

    Boy-o-boy would that put a crimp in their style....huh?
    Good Read.

    Enlightening.

  15. #65
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Walter's the man.

  16. #66
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Oh, the irony.

  17. #67
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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  18. #68
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Exactly, you don't even see it.

  19. #69
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Exactly, you don't even see it.
    I can assume that you are suggesting there are non-cons utional expenditures that we conservative wholeheartedly support. Please enumerate those.

  20. #70
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Nope. Not what I'm thinking.

  21. #71
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    Good Read.

    Enlightening.
    Yes, it was a good read.

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