ESPN MVP votes...Hollinger has Kobe in 4th. LOL

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ok bandwagoner, i have watched the jordan era where they won 3 championsips from 96-98, and the shaq era where the lakers won 3, and i can tell you that the bulls were not as dominant as were the lakers, the compe ion was much tougher back then, jordan singlehandedly won them the game in 98 with pippen down with a back injury and he's the most clutch shooter i have ever seen, and the fact that he drop over 50% of his shots alot on jumpers and contested tells you that he's a much better shooter then kobe, the fact that he hit game winners on so many different occasion and carried the team on his back tells you he's mentally tougher then kobe, and the fact that shaq was the mvp in all 3 of lakers championship because kobe can't do without a dominant player like shaq scoring 26 ppg inside tells you that it's foolish trying to compare the both.

Wow, way to completely fail to address anything I said. Kobe's not as good as the greatest player of the modern era. Careful, you might strain something with that one. Go back and re-read the post. The only comparison I made to Jordan was his scoring ability, and Kobe is frightfully efficient when he's got it going.

You said he didn't have good court vision, he isn't clutch at all and has never hit a clutch playoff shot. That's just stupidity.

[spurms]

Wow, way to completely fail to address anything I said. Kobe's not as good as the greatest player of the modern era. Careful, you might strain something with that one. Go back and re-read the post. The only comparison I made to Jordan was his scoring ability, and Kobe is frightfully efficient when he's got it going.

You said he didn't have good court vision, he isn't clutch at all and has never hit a clutch playoff shot. That's just stupidity.

name me a clutch game where kobe completely took over a game, and won them a crucial playoff game or le? You wont be able to name me one, if shaq had gone down with a back injury on any given time kobe can kiss his championship ring goodbye, and about kobe and his court vision, i have seen players like nash, mcgrady and lebron who have more court vision than kobe will ever have, i am not saying he don't see the court well, but he much rather jack up shots than find open team mates, he forces the issue too much, and sure he hit some spectacular long range bombs from time to time, but players like jordan dont have to do that, whose game was based on effectiveness(though his best plays totally owns kobe), which amounted to 30 ppg and 6 assist throughout his career, kobe's game is based on flashes of brilliance but when his game is not on or he have to face up with someone like battier or bowen he wither like a .

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name me a clutch game where kobe completely took over a game, and won them a crucial playoff game or le?

First of all, dumbass, that's not what you said. If you are going to say something stupid then stick to it.

You wont be able to name me one,

Kobe scored 48 points in a game seven against Sacramento in 2001.

if shaq had gone down with a back injury on any given time kobe can kiss his championship ring goodbye,

Again, that has nothing to do with anything. The Lakers might not have won without the most dominant player in the league. Again, don't strain yourself.

and about kobe and his court vision, i have seen players like nash, mcgrady and lebron who have more court vision than kobe will ever have

Wow, three of the best players in the league. What was I thinking?

i am not saying he don't see the court well

I guess "he don't have the vision to find open team mates" means something different to you than it does to the rest of the world.

but he much rather jack up shots than find open team mates, he forces the issue too much, and sure he hit some spectacular long range bombs from time to time, but players like jordan dont have to do that, whose game was based on effectiveness(though his best plays totally owns kobe), which amounted to 30 ppg and 6 assist throughout his career, kobe's game is based on flashes of brilliance but when his game is not on or he have to face up with someone like battier or bowen he wither like a .

Dude, you must not even watch basketball, because the above is even stupider than the rest of your post. He's not as great as Jordan. Okay, but that doesn't mean he isn't great.

The argument here is whether or not Kobe deserves the MVP, and more particularly, whether he deserves it for making his teammates better. That he is, at the very least, one of the top two or three players in the league every single year since about third season in the NBA isn't debatable by people who know anything about basketball.

[spurms]

First of all, dumbass, that's not what you said. If you are going to say something stupid then stick to it.


Kobe scored 48 points in a game seven against Sacramento in 2001.


Again, that has nothing to do with anything. The Lakers might not have won without the most dominant player in the league. Again, don't strain yourself.



Wow, three of the best players in the league. What was I thinking?



I guess "he don't have the vision to find open team mates" means something different to you than it does to the rest of the world.



Dude, you must not even watch basketball, because the above is even stupider than the rest of your post. He's not as great as Jordan. Okay, but that doesn't mean he isn't great.

The argument here is whether or not Kobe deserves the MVP, and more particularly, whether he deserves it for making his teammates better. That he is, at the very least, one of the top two or three players in the league every single year since about third season in the NBA isn't debatable by people who know anything about basketball.

Dont go confrontational and calling me names u , that is exactly what i meant, which is kobe is overated especially when faker fans start revering him like a g.o.a.t and dub him more skillful then michael jordan(wow i had a good laugh at that article) you know he's overated, i never once said he's not a good player, don't go make sense of something you cant understand, then lgive me a lecture about the same issue, ur article sucks btw.

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Dont go confrontational and calling me names u

Just can't make this up.

that is exactly what i meant, which is kobe is overated especially when faker fans start revering him like a g.o.a.t and dub him more skillful then michael jordan(wow i had a good laugh at that article)

Then go somewhere else and argue about that one, because it's not the discussion going on here.

don't go make sense of something you cant understand

That applies to almost everything you've written. Don't worry. It's not likely anyone will be able to, particularly while you appear to be posting with a cell phone.

ur article sucks btw.

Um, okay. I guess my job at ESPN isn't safe.

[TheMACHINE]

name me a clutch game where kobe completely took over a game, and won them a crucial playoff game or le? You wont be able to name me one, if shaq had gone down with a back injury on any given time kobe can kiss his championship ring goodbye, and about kobe and his court vision, i have seen players like nash, mcgrady and lebron who have more court vision than kobe will ever have, i am not saying he don't see the court well, but he much rather jack up shots than find open team mates, he forces the issue too much, and sure he hit some spectacular long range bombs from time to time, but players like jordan dont have to do that, whose game was based on effectiveness(though his best plays totally owns kobe), which amounted to 30 ppg and 6 assist throughout his career, kobe's game is based on flashes of brilliance but when his game is not on or he have to face up with someone like battier or bowen he wither like a .

LOL...u went from "he's also not as clutch a shooter as you may think, he had never had a clutch playoff shot ever. " to "name me a clutch game where kobe completely took over a game, and won them a crucial playoff game or le?"

talk about backpeddling. LOL. Did you just realize how stupid your original statement was?!

[mavs>spurs2]

What the is this dude talking about, Kobe is the most clutch player in the NBA right now. And his teammate Fisher is pretty clutch too, I'd be scared to be in a close game with the Lakers in the 4th quarter.

[kingmalaki]

Why do writers and others constantly overstate the amount of games missed by Bynum and Gasol? The two never played together. Bynum went down, and LA struggled. They got an all-star big for nothing and played well again. Gasol went down for a few games and they struggled again. He came back and they started winning again because the team suddenly had 3 key pieces (Odom being one, who has hardly missed any time) and a good bench. In reality Kobe has been without a key 3rd piece for 20+ games, and the record is in the .500 range in those games. This is not to say he isn't MVP worthy, but he hasn't been dragging some injury plagued team to #1 in the West. If that's your criteria then give the award to T-Mac....

[DazedAndConfused]

Bynum - Out for half the season
Ariza - Out for half the season
Gasol - Missed 3-4 weeks with ankle injuries
Kwame - Missed at least 4 weeks due to ankle injuries
Mihm - Never healthy enough to make a contribution all season
Kobe - Playing on a dislocated pinky
Fisher - Playing with torn tendon in foot
Radman/Luke - Missed at least 3 weeks ulatively

A halfcourt team missing their entire frontcourt for key stretches in the season yet still finishing #1 in the WC is one of a ing accomplishment. You're just a pathetic got ing hater.

[kingmalaki]

Bynum - Out for half the season
and they replaced him with Gaosl
Ariza - Out for half the season
Is he a big difference maker? You still have quality at that position (Luke, V-Rad, Sasha), just not quality defenders...but does it matter as the replacements can really score/shoot.
Gasol - Missed 3-4 weeks with ankle injuries
And you struggled without him. Again, a key 3rd piece
Kwame - Missed at least 4 weeks due to ankle injuries
Is he a big difference maker, and was Bynum playing when he wasn't? Again, Bynum or Gasol have been the key 3rd pieces.
Mihm - Never healthy enough to make a contribution all season
Do you need Mihm when you have a stud big-man for all but 20 games? And is Mihm a key player anyway?[/b]
Kobe - Playing on a dislocated pinky
What does that have to do with what I said?
Fisher - Playing with torn tendon in foot
How does that stop him from making most of his 3's?
Radman/Luke - Missed at least 3 weeks ulatively
See Ariza comments.

A halfcourt team missing their entire frontcourt for key stretches in the season yet still finishing #1 in the WC is one of a ing accomplishment. You're just a pathetic got ing hater.

And with all that, they still had three key pieces (either Kobe/Odom/Bynum or Kobe/Odom/Gasol), plus solid PG play and a bench (unlike the last 3 seasons) for all but 20+ games. And in those 20+ games they were right around .500.

[DazedAndConfused]

You also need to consider the timing of the injuries. Both Bynum and Gasol went out when the Lakers were at the start of key road trips against the top WC teams. The Lakers were forced to completely change their style of play and adjust and re-adjust constantly. Just take off the hater glasses for one moment and realize that Kobe and the Lakers had to deal with a lot of adversity this season and to come out on top is nothing short of amazing.

[TheMACHINE]

And with all that, they still had three key pieces (either Kobe/Odom/Bynum or Kobe/Odom/Gasol), plus solid PG play and a bench (unlike the last 3 seasons) for all but 20+ games. And in those 20+ games they were right around .500.

How bout Chris Paul? How many injurys does his team have this year?

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How bout Chris Paul? How many injurys does his team have this year?

This is the first healthy season the Hornets have had in years. Begrudging them that is in poor taste. The Lakers are not the most injury plagued team in the league, but you'd never know that by listening to the grumping and groaning of the Lakers fans.

[DazedAndConfused]

Of all the WC playoff teams the Lakers have sustained the most injuries to key players this season. It's a of lot harder to win when you lose your front court compared to your backcourt.

[Jack Sommersset]

Kobe should win. He kept his team together all year, through trade rumors,injuries and he is the best player in the league. Plus they are top seeds. Add it together, it equals MVP!

[endrity]

Bill Simmons is right though; when you look back at the 07-08 regular season there will be hardly anything special to remember from Kobe. The Celtic's season as well as CP3's rise to the top of the PG position will be what I remember most. To me this is a lifetime achievement award, and that's fine as long as people admit it is. It is a shame that Kobe could retire without one MVP, but there is hardly anything great about this season from Kobe. It would have been much better if he just won it in 06.

[TheMACHINE]

Bill Simmons is right though; when you look back at the 07-08 regular season there will be hardly anything special to remember from Kobe. The Celtic's season as well as CP3's rise to the top of the PG position will be what I remember most. To me this is a lifetime achievement award, and that's fine as long as people admit it is. It is a shame that Kobe could retire without one MVP, but there is hardly anything great about this season from Kobe. It would have been much better if he just won it in 06.

Isnt it ironic that the year Kobe gets MVP, he didnt do a 8-9 games streak of 40+ points...he didnt do an 81 point game, yet his team is #1. So maybe...just maybe..the fact that he didnt do anything superhuman and just played teamball HELPED him get a better record.

[endrity]

Isnt it ironic that the year Kobe gets MVP, he didnt do a 8-9 games streak of 40+ points...he didnt do an 81 point game, yet his team is #1. So maybe...just maybe..the fact that he didnt do anything superhuman and just played teamball HELPED him get a better record.

No, the Lakers got better because AB, Sasha, Farmar, impoved and then went out and committed the robbery of the decade by taking Gasol for coing change.

[Allanon]

No, the Lakers got better because AB, Sasha, Farmar, impoved and then went out and committed the robbery of the decade by taking Gasol for coing change.

Of course, these same players that sucked last year automatically made themselves better this year. It has nothing to do with Kobe who went from 27 shots a few years ago to 20 shots per game. It had nothing to do with Kobe playing his best Defense in years or playing the entire 82 games no matter what injury he had. It had nothing to do with Kobe giving up his own personal stats for the good of the team.

I'm not even sure why there is any argument left. Kobe finished the season with the #1 seed in the most difficult Western Conference ever. There aren't any other All Stars on his team, only 1 "former All Star" as was pointed out.

And they got the #1 seed instead of the #9 seed as everybody predicted. Even the Hornets were projected to be higher than the Lakers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...LALPreview0708

Kobe's got the MVP trophy and needs to figure which spot on the shelf to put it. He'll just have to wait for the first game of the WCF for them to give it to him at Staples in the first round of Lakers vs Suns.

Book it!

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I love how MVP is now being given based on the flawed preseason predictions of the very people that give out the award.

[DazedAndConfused]

^It's not.

Kobe, CP3, and Garnett are all equally deserving IMHO. Kobe will get it because he took his team to the top of the most difficult and compe ive conference in recent history.

[kingmalaki]

You also need to consider the timing of the injuries. Both Bynum and Gasol went out when the Lakers were at the start of key road trips against the top WC teams. The Lakers were forced to completely change their style of play and adjust and re-adjust constantly. Just take off the hater glasses for one moment and realize that Kobe and the Lakers had to deal with a lot of adversity this season and to come out on top is nothing short of amazing.

I am taking all of that into consideration. Kobe had to carry a short squad (if that's what you want to call it, as Odom and that bench are pretty good) for 20 games or so. That is not the same as most keep spouting...about Bynum and Gasol missing like 60 games combined. They never played together. If you want to say Kobe was without a key third piece for 20+ games then fine.

Yes, Paul had his whole team for most of the season. I don't think I ever stated that the Hornets had more injuries than the Lakers. I stated that y'all are making it seem like Kobe carried bums to the #1 seed when that is not the case.

[Allanon]

I am taking all of that into consideration. Kobe had to carry a short squad (if that's what you want to call it, as Odom and that bench are pretty good) for 20 games or so. That is not the same as most keep spouting...about Bynum and Gasol missing like 60 games combined. They never played together. If you want to say Kobe was without a key third piece for 20+ games then fine.

Yes, Paul had his whole team for most of the season. I don't think I ever stated that the Hornets had more injuries than the Lakers. I stated that y'all are making it seem like Kobe carried bums to the #1 seed when that is not the case.

You may laugh at .500 ball but .500 ball while missing your two starters is incredibly good. Look at where Miami went when Shaq and DWade went down at the same time.

Pau is the #2 option, Lamar Odom is the #3 option
Even though Pau and Bynum didn't play together, they're both starters.

The Lakers went 20 games without their Starting Center and Starting Power Forward, and they maintained .500 ball. Take David West and Tyson Chandler off the Hornets (at the SAME time) for 1/4 of the season and tell me they could have maintained .500. Would they still even be in the Playoffs?

[resistanze]

I love how MVP is now being given based on the flawed preseason predictions of the very people that give out the award.

Yup, that precedent was set in 2005-06

[Allanon]

Yup, that precedent was set in 2005-06

+1