Your top 10 players all-time

[rAm]

Brutalis... sometimes you are just flat out re ed.

[balli]

Slow down my friend. Stockton's numbers are highly inflated. If Magic and Isaiah played 18 years, their numbers would be similar or better. Remember this... Stockton was a veteren player when Magic and Isaiah were in their prime, and no one outside of Utah even knew who he was! Magic has a higher APG average with 11.2/Stockton's 10.5, and there are six guys ahead of Stockton on the steals average list.

Stockton was a great player, but no where near the floor general of Magic and Isaiah.

Longevity counts. Why didn't they play 18 years? They couldn't. Stockton could. That's worth A LOT in my eyes. Especially considering that he was still elite in the twilight of his career.

And Magic got his 11.2 with Showtime. That wasn't really Stockton's style, but certainly running and scoring that much was conducive to Magic's assist totals more than the Jazz's slow it down and score less half court sets.

[dbreiden83080]

At first I had Duncan on here but then I had to ask myself... "what is Duncan GREAT at?" Sure he is a big time winner, and good at everything except for ft's, but he is not GREAT at anything. Everyone else on my list was Great at something.

Not great at anything. How long you been watching basketball 2 weeks. Duncan is an all time defender for a big man, a great rebounder and yes a great scorer. He is one of the most unselfish big men of all time. In his mvp's years he could have put up 30 a game shooting 50 plus % without breaking a sweat. He put up 25 as it was while being unselfish. Plus he is one of the great players ever in the playoffs, 3 finals MVP's 2 of those in 99 and 03 he put up massive numbers. Damn near quadruple double in the closing game against the Nets. Not great at anything my ass.

[Brutalis]

I know, but...

It was ing Stockton man! Stockton.

If it were BY FAR your favorite player ever, that never gets talked about, ever, you'd probably have something to say too.

I never get to talk about him having a ring, so please just let me bring up his legacy in peace.

Then you guys should have let us win in 1998 cause we would have toppled Jordan's Bulls.

Stockton is the best ever PG man I agree. He kept a low profile, kept to himself... he would have been great for the Spurs. He had our mentality really.

[Brutalis]

Brutalis... sometimes you are just flat out re ed.

Who isn't?

[Brutalis]

Slow down my friend. Stockton's numbers are highly inflated. If Magic and Isaiah played 18 years, their numbers would be similar or better. Remember this... Stockton was a veteren player when Magic and Isaiah were in their prime, and no one outside of Utah even knew who he was! Magic has a higher APG average with 11.2/Stockton's 10.5, and there are six guys ahead of Stockton on the steals average list.

Stockton was a great player, but no where near the floor general of Magic and Isaiah.

Your NBA knowledge is that of a sack of potatoes.

[Lake_show]

Michael
Magic
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Oscar Robertson
Kareem
Bird
Hakeem

[balli]

Your debate is like saying... Dikembe is the greatest shot blocker of all-time. Sure he played way more years than any of his foes, but still, on a nightly basis, there are 4 guys that average more than him. Mark Eaton was by far a better shot blocker than Dikembe.

Except Magic was not a far better passer than Stockton. If you want to make the case he was a better passer, fine, but you're talking about a matter of slight degree anyway and I just wouldn't agree. As far as your Dikembe analogy, Stockton stayed at an elite level until he retired, unlike Deke. And you didn't mention anything about how much easier it was for Magic to get assists in his system with the amount of scoring his team/era had.

Look, I think Magic was the better player, but if we're just talking about the pure pg skill set then I put Stockton ahead as the better pg if not necessarily the better player overall.

[Brutalis]

Calm down man... you have good points, but you are defeating yourself by quoting stats. You say Duncan is an all-time GREAT defender!!! Well, lets see if we can find a spot on that list for him as a defender. We know for a fact that both Duncan and Robinsion could not even slow Shaq while he was in his prime. In most cases... Pop refused to put Duncan on Shaq to avoid fouling him out. Now, if Duncan was a GREAT defender, then he would have had no problem in guarding and outshining Shaq... like Hakeem did in the finals.

A great scorer!!! Come on... he has his moments just like everyone else, but if you take the top 30 guys in history, Duncan is 23 on that list with an average of 22.3 a game. T-MAC, Paul Pierce, and Vince Carter are even ahead of him on that list.

He is one of the most unselfish big men of all-time.

Everything else you stated was concerning a few outstanding years he had in the playoffs. Comparing his stats to some of those big guys on my list... Duncan is not even on the radar. Lets be real man... not one sane person would draft Duncan over any of those big men on that list.

1997-98 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

[balli]

listen it becomes subjective when you want to start talking about the greatest position player ever ..but if you were to start a team and you had a choice between Magic, Isiah, or Stockton, lets be honest here 99.99% percent of people would take Magic or Isiah over Stockton. Now having Stockton as one of the top 5 point guards ever is pretty damn impressive but the greatest ever that can definitely be argued.

It's like I said... I consider Magic the better player. I consider Stockton the better pure pg.

[MateoNeygro]

I didnt mean to hurt your feelings man, but I was just stating facts. I mean, Duncan is still probably the best that has ever to come out of SA... he's just not in the top 10 all-time.

I like how only laker fans have left Duncan off the list. haha ya'll are just spurs haters cause we're the only ones to give ya'll any real trouble this past decade.

[Brutalis]

listen it becomes subjective when you want to start talking about the greatest position player ever ..but if you were to start a team and you had a choice between Magic, Isiah, or Stockton, lets be honest here 99.99% percent of people would take Magic or Isiah over Stockton. Now having Stockton as one of the top 5 point guards ever is pretty damn impressive but the greatest ever that can definitely be argued.

I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to ride Jazz fans nuts either. But when you have the record for steals and assists, by a large margin.... you are the best PG ever. That is what defines a PG. And that is not arguable in my books.

[Brutalis]

You can argue with the stats... oh yeah, and how many rings does Stockton have??? Just what I thought. My NBA knowledge may be worth a sack of potatoes, but I do know that if you rank Stockton as the best point guard to ever play the game... then he should definitely be on the top 10 player list. There is no way the best point guard to play the game should not be on the list. Now go back over all these posts, and see how many people have Stockton on their top 10. If you had made a top 20, Stockton would not have been there.

Think 5 times before you post... then preview it, and think some more, then send it to Korri and get permission before you go out and make an ass out of yourself.

So because Stockton will not win a popularity contest he is not a case for the best PG ever, at all.

Great point.

The potatoes now have nipples.

ballujuanalmaoatthatone

[kobyz]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Tim Duncan
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Bill Russell
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Wilt Chamberlain

[MateoNeygro]

You know, when you think of Stockton and his career, you could argue him being one of the pound for pound greats... no doubt, you already made a good case for that. I dont think Magic was a better passer. They both never missed an open player. But just like in boxing, there are a lot of guys that may have better records than Ali, but no one did it better on the big stage than Ali. Magic was like the Ali of the NBA, and Stockton was like the Marciano. Marciano never lost a fight, but you know if he and Ali met in their prime, Ali would have won. Stockton is right at the top with the point guards, I just dont think hes the best.

i'm not saying whos better either way because i don't like stockton and i'm indifferent about magic but stockton did play in a slower paced offense and all he had really was malone and hornicek, magic's showtime lakers were ing stacked so i dunno thats hard to debate. But on a lighter note it's all about Avery Johnson!! haha

[Brutalis]

Slow down my friend. Stockton's numbers are highly inflated. If Magic and Isaiah played 18 years, their numbers would be similar or better. Remember this... Stockton was a veteren player when Magic and Isaiah were in their prime, and no one outside of Utah even knew who he was! Magic has a higher APG average with 11.2/Stockton's 10.5, and there are six guys ahead of Stockton on the steals average list.

Stockton was a great player, but no where near the floor general of Magic and Isaiah.

Oh and LOL at dude thinking Magic could have played 18 years. He was too busy taking it up the outty pimpin dem AIDS 2 do dat, yo.

[Brutalis]

Which makes him one of the best of his era, but not of all-time.

I quoted your post of you dissing Tim Duncan's defense you ing dumb . Geez read 5 times before you post, and click preview post..... L M A O

[balli]

can you honestly tell me if you could start a team today you would take Stockton over Magic or Isiah?

I don't think a single person has said that. Including me. I'd much rather have Magic. That doesn't mean I think he was a better pg. Nobody is arguing that Stockton is better than Magic overall or that his legacy is as good. What we're arguing is that Stocckton was better at doing the things that define the proto-typical pg position. And he was.

And to say TD is not top ten all time, laker fans, is beyond ridiculous. Skill wise he's top 4 for big men, (if you count Shaq's size as skill anyway) and as a floor leader he's second to none. His individual accomplishments speak for themselves and he's got the rings. I realize you don't like him, but don't be be ignorant. Oh and this is coming form someone who loathes Tim Duncan.

[dbreiden83080]

Everything else you stated was concerning a few outstanding years he had in the playoffs. Comparing his stats to some of those big guys on my list... Duncan is not even on the radar. Lets be real man... not one sane person would draft Duncan over any of those big men on that list.

Oh please, Duncan has career playoff averages of almost 24 and 13 and has won 4 les, 3 finals MVPS. Hakeem is way up on your list and he has playoff averages of about 26 and 11 a game and has 2 less les than Duncan. That alone puts Duncan right there with Hakeem. Oh yes and i am a sane person and i will draft Duncan over Shaq and Larry bird for that matter any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[dbreiden83080]

Which makes him one of the best of his era, but not of all-time.

That is where it gets tricky, because almost nobody agrees about the level of difficulty in regards to Eras.

[Brutalis]

can you honestly tell me if you could start a team today you would take Stockton over Magic or Isiah?

Magic can play over 4 positions and can rebound too and back you in the post

Isiah could pass and score every time if he wanted to (Chris Paul plays identical to Thomas)

I love Stockton and he is definitely one of the top 5 point guards ever to play but the best ever! But Isiah lead Detroit to the le Magic lead the Lakers to the le when Kareem got injured as a Rookie. Stockton never could just take over a game like these two players that is why they are ahead of him and when the game was on the line the Jazz would go to Malone that Stockton.

See now, that just the thing with opinions my fellow Spurs brethren. As like assholes we all them. (just some are abused like some laker fan here)

Yes, I would choose Stockton. I do not want a scoring PG. My philosophy is different from yours. Much like I wish TP would play defense and get some dimes under his box score instead of trying to find his jumper that always seems to be on it's rag. (however it has improved)

I would build my team like so...

Specialties
Passing/Defensive PG (Stockton)
Defensive/Jump shooting/3p shooting SG
Athletic/Scoring SF
Scoring/defensive PF
Defensive, Rebounding C

That's my opinion bud.

[balli]

Stop assuming man. Im just saying that if you rank Stockton as a better point guard than Magic, then he would have to be on this list as a top 10 player, because almost everyone has Magic in their top 5.

What don't you get? I think everybody puts Magic ahead of Stockton. That's because Magic was so good he almost trancended position. That doesn't mean he was the better pg, that means he was the better basketball player.

[dbreiden83080]

All of my big men would have dominated him, and the rest were just all around better players that were great at something.

LOL, Russell would have dominated Tim Duncan. 6'10, played in an era of unathletic white guys, with a career scoring avg of less than 16 PPG is going to take Tim Duncan to school, yeah right.

And Shaq ahead of Duncan is another laugh, since Duncan is vastly the better all around player, who has won just as many rings with less help around him. He had to win 2 rings before Manu and Tony got their together, Shaq only won anything when Kobe became great and Phil Jackson came to town.

[balli]

I still challenge you to find one player on my list that you would remove to add Duncan. All of my big men would have dominated him, and the rest were just all around better players that were great at something.

Duncan would have eviscerated Bill Russell. The only reason Russell is on my list is because of what he did in his era, but to say that Duncan's game is worse than Russell's is insane. Shaq was better because of his size, not his skill. Hakeem is probably close to a push.

[timvp]

I think Hakeem is getting too much love in this thread. For the first eight years of his career, he wasn't even that good. He was more of a stat than a great basketball player. He was basically Amare Stoudemire with better defensive numbers. The Rockets at one point were even trying to trade him. Oh don't forget how in '86 Bill Walton at about 20% health owned Hakeem repeatedly in the Finals. That was just embarrassing.

He then had an amazing four year stretch of his career before falling into the abyss. That four year stretch was fantastic and right up there with any stretch by a bigman in history. But it should take more than four years of greatness to make the top ten players of all-time list.