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  1. #726
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    I think Obama needs to ask McCain point blank... Would you declare war on Iran before sitting down with Ahmadinejad without preconditions?

  2. #727
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    I odn't know.

    it.

    I'm tired of being attacked for supporting one side.
    Why do you feel attacked? I'm just asking you a question.

  3. #728
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Then why did he say, "If not Ahmadinejad"? Just to throw his name out there?
    Okay, let's look at the entire excerpt...it's all I have and I don't get CNN here.

    Kissinger: "Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we -- we know we're dealing with authentic..." Sesno: "Put at a very high level right out of the box?" Kissinger: "Initially, yes. And I always believed that the best way to begin a negotiation is to tell the other side exactly what you have in mind and what you are -- what the outcome is that you're trying to achieve so that they have something that they can react to. Now, the permanent members of the Security Council, plus Japan and Germany, have all said nuclear weapons in Iran are unacceptable. They've never explained what they mean by this. So if we go into a negotiation, we ought to have a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about? But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government." (CNN's "Live Event," 9/20/08)
    Were you talking about Kissinger saying that or someone else? 'Cause, I don't see it here.

  4. #729
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    I agree that not having Palin on gives a negative perception. However, does anyone think the VP candidate would say anything other than their running mate won - their remarks are really irrelevent.
    Ive made my opinion known in another thread that I find her opinion important in particular because of McCain, namely his age and health.

  5. #730
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    Okay, let's look at the entire excerpt...it's all I have and I don't get CNN here.


    Were you talking about Kissinger saying that or someone else? 'Cause, I don't see it here.
    No it's a statement he issued to Katie Couric after she asked Palin about meeting Kissinger.

  6. #731
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    No it's a statement he issued to Katie Couric.
    Post that then.

  7. #732
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    Yeah but this wasn't open to the general public Spurster. It was a focus group. I'm not saying the Mediacurves stuff is completely accurate, but I'm not ready to dismiss it outright either.

    We'll see.
    The problem with internet polls is that they van be manipulated by large groups. For example, on the Democratic Underground, they literally have threads saying "Let's DU this poll" and then, hundreds of people go vote for the democratic option on that poll. The Free Republic (Republican) does the same thing.

    The other problem you have is the bias of the website that the poll is on (e.g., a poll on The Daily Kos, National Review, MSNBC.com, FoxNews.com, etc.).

    If an internet poll is closed to the general public and the participants are a representative sample, it would seem to minimize the above phenomena.

  8. #733
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    I already did. Here it is again.

    He told us he supports talks, if not with Ahmadinejad, then with high level Iranian officials, without preconditions.

  9. #734
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    I already did. Here it is again.
    "He told us..." There's a problem right there. How 'bout a quote from Kissinger. That's what I've been working from.

    And, if look at the construction of that statement it could be read to mean, Kissinger supports talk with Iran just not with Ahmadinejad, directly.

    Sorry, I don't trust Couric. I want see Kissinger saying it. And, that's not what he said on CNN.

  10. #735
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    UPDATED WITH NEAR-FINAL NUMBERS CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a nationally representative poll of approximately 500 uncommitted voters reacting to the debate in the minutes after it happened.

    Thirty-nine percent of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. Twenty-five percent thought John McCain won. Thirty-six percent saw it as a draw.

    Forty-six percent of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight. Thirty-one percent said their opinion of McCain got better.

    Sixty-six percent of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. Forty-four percent think McCain would.

    Forty-eight percent of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. Fifty-eight percent think McCain would.

    We will have a full report on the poll later on. Uncommitted voters are those who don't yet know who they will vote for, or who have chosen a candidate but may still change their minds.

    The margin of sampling error could be plus or minus 4 percentage points for results based on the entire sample.
    Just pretty damn good numbers for Obama.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09...y4482028.shtml

  11. #736
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    "He told us..." There's a problem right there. How 'bout a quote from Kissinger. That's what I've been working from.

    And, if look at the construction of that statement it could be read to mean, Kissinger supports talk with Iran just not with Ahmadinejad, directly.

    Sorry, I don't trust Couric. I want see Kissinger saying it. And, that's not what he said on CNN.
    But of course.

  12. #737
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    Ive made my opinion known in another thread that I find her opinion important in particular because of McCain, namely his age and health.
    I was talking about specifically commenting on this debate. Those are the comments that are irrelevent because they will never say their running mate didn't do a great job or criticize any aspect of their performance.

  13. #738
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Well, goddam Shasta, if you're going to say Kissinger said something...show me where he said it. It's a pretty simple request.

    What Couric says he said could mean a whole bunch of .

  14. #739
    My Playlist > Yours Pistons < Spurs's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if it's a positive or a negative, but this was the first presidential debate I've ever watched. And I enjoyed it. Enjoyed the importance of it. I actually felt like I was part of the decision making process. I guess I'm a bit more interested in politics than I was at a younger age. Although, at 35, it's not like I'm a young kid. Previously, I haven't really concerned myself with any sort of election process as I've always felt that my vote doesn't really matter.

    For the most part, I find myself overwhelmed by the stats, facts and history that most of you regulars in the political forum go on about. Most of you are far more intelligent than myself. You understand the importance and implications of each candidates philosophies and comments far better than I ever will. Foreign policy, economic policy. etc etc ....

    I suppose I find the current problems that face our country a of a lot more serious than I ever have in the past. That's probably not a good thing. But it did make me watch the debate.

    I fully intend to watch the future debates. I'm excited about it.

    But at the end of the day, I find myself disgusted by the whole process. I hate the whole partisanship makeup of our government. I don't believe anyone. They're all full of . It's all about supporting the party and not the people. Drop the les of the party, and stand the up for what you believe in. Screw talking pints. Screw public support. Do what is fundamnetally right for us as a country.

    I tend to buy into the character and integrity of McCain, and at the same time, question the inexperience of Obama. That's probably largely due to the influence of my parents who've always been Republican leaning.

    Tonight was a win for whatever side you push. CNN will give some 80% numbers for Obama, and FOX will will show similar numbers for McCain.

    I just want to know what will help ME, a 35 year old, earning 50k a year, with lots of frightening questions about my future.

    Tonight didn't answer that. Neither side said that even I didn't know.

    But I'm glad to find myself wanting to be a part of the process. Part of the decision.

  15. #740
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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  16. #741
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    Neither side said that even I didn't know
    Which I predicted.

    I knew it was just gonna be regurgitated campaign tripe.

  17. #742
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    But I'm glad to find myself wanting to be a part of the process. Part of the decision.
    You'd better, we live in a swing state.

  18. #743
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for?

  19. #744
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if it's a positive or a negative, but this was the first presidential debate I've ever watched. And I enjoyed it. Enjoyed the importance of it. I actually felt like I was part of the decision making process. I guess I'm a bit more interested in politics than I was at a younger age. Although, at 35, it's not like I'm a young kid. Previously, I haven't really concerned myself with any sort of election process as I've always felt that my vote doesn't really matter.

    For the most part, I find myself overwhelmed by the stats, facts and history that most of you regulars in the political forum go on about. Most of you are far more intelligent than myself. You understand the importance and implications of each candidates philosophies and comments far better than I ever will. Foreign policy, economic policy. etc etc ....

    I suppose I find the current problems that face our country a of a lot more serious than I ever have in the past. That's probably not a good thing. But it did make me watch the debate.

    I fully intend to watch the future debates. I'm excited about it.

    But at the end of the day, I find myself disgusted by the whole process. I hate the whole partisanship makeup of our government. I don't believe anyone. They're all full of . It's all about supporting the party and not the people. Drop the les of the party, and stand the up for what you believe in. Screw talking pints. Screw public support. Do what is fundamnetally right for us as a country.

    I tend to buy into the character and integrity of McCain, and at the same time, question the inexperience of Obama. That's probably largely due to the influence of my parents who've always been Republican leaning.

    Tonight was a win for whatever side you push. CNN will give some 80% numbers for Obama, and FOX will will show similar numbers for McCain.

    I just want to know what will help ME, a 35 year old, earning 50k a year, with lots of frightening questions about my future.

    Tonight didn't answer that. Neither side said that even I didn't know.

    But I'm glad to find myself wanting to be a part of the process. Part of the decision.
    Solid dude. Don't let anyone tell you what you feel or think is wrong, just make sure you do your best to try to get a good basis for what you believe and who you support. Your desire to be part of the process is refreshing. You live in a place where your vote will mean a lot, so I think you bear a responsibility to cast an informed vote. Outside of that whatever path you think best for that vote is your choice.

    I'm sure you'll make a good one, whichever way you go.

    Good luck.

  20. #745
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
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    Goes with what I said in the other thread- Women do not like someone who is dismissive of the other person.

  21. #746
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for?
    As a matter of fact, it is.

  22. #747
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    Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for?
    What are you implying?

  23. #748
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for?
    CBS doesn't conduct the poll. They have a public resarch company that handles it such as gallup etc etc. The name of the company is right there in that picture.

    The point is that whatever you feel about the news agency the conducting of these polls is done by 3rd parties who are not biased.

  24. #749
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    Goes with what I said in the other thread- Women do not like someone who is dismissive of the other person.
    Well, 40% of them do.

  25. #750
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Goes with what I said in the other thread- Women do not like someone who is dismissive of the other person.
    Yeah, thats a good point. I think generally McCain's body language was far more annoying that Barack.

    I wonder how much his refusal to look at Obama will play.

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