Except when they do.
I’m gonna just have to throw Draymond’s name out there to combat this statement. And then there’s that year when Atlanta had 4 guys make it who wouldn’t usually fit the bill. But I’m only just referring to this one statement and not the conversation you replied to.
kyle korver made all star for hawks. Yao Ming made all star despite almost not playing cause China voted for him. Bynum is another trash.
Teams with Kyle Korver-type all stars (the type Collins is) don’t win championships.
How do you equate Collins with Korver here? I'm struggling to see that..
Nothing related to their game, but their level of play, role and contribution to a team. The post before mines mentioned Kyle.
bill cartwright, a.c. green, bj armstrong, tyson chandler, chris gatling, kyle korver, brad miller, tyrone hill, mehmeet okur, roy hibbert, jamall migloire all made all-star teams but i would not call any of them legit stars; they were solid role players who often benefited from who they played with. clint capela averaged almost 17/13 in 2018 but who were his guards? he had another solid season this year and who is his guard now? collins is solid and an occasional star but i think his game is not yet well-rounded enough to say he's beyond being a very good role player, yet.
Guys have bad nights but the 1st game that Trae young missed in the eastern conference finals John Collins scored 4 points in…. Not saying I don’t want him but it would be hard to max a guy like him.
Clint Capella is a horrible comp. Collins shoots the 3 ball. Capela is a rim runner. He’s Poeltl with a tan.
it wasn't meant to be a comp, player to player; it was meant to show how capela has benefited from whom he has played with. ergo, his numbers alone don't reflect his true value. but yes, collins is more diverse.
I think he could be overpaid for the max. But we don't have much talen at the 4/5 spot. He fits what we need, he pairs well with Jakob. Its a risk worth taking.
Jakob/Collins is most assuredly a better pairing than Dieng/Luka, yet I prefer the latter and think the product on the court might be closer than we think.
John Collins will replace DeRozans scoring, have true PF size, and space the floor with 3 point shooting. Isn’t that what everyone has been wanting for the last two years?
John Collins averaged 21 and 10 the year before the franchise up and straight gave the keys, steering wheel, and car to Trae. Started off bad, particularly because Collin and Trae stopped meshing well this year (whose fault is that?, probably not Collins). Then the team started gelling and Collins adjusted to his role as well as the whole Atlanta team (good talent all-around). On any young team, Collins would easily be the 2nd-tier option. He certainly helped them have a very good season so, equating him to Kyle Korver (literally like, at best the 4th option on an ok team) is weird tbh. I certainly don't see Collins as anything lower than a 3-rd option an a good/great team.
John Collins is a 20/10 guy who can space the floor. It's a no brainer. The PATFO should try and get him.
If Poeltl is not a liability in scoring and can improve his FT to at least 70%, then he's okay.
The rest of the youngsters need to improve also. DJ to borderline star, Derek to stay healthy, Lonnie continue being aggressive, etc. Plus whatever haul we can get from Demar S&T to the Lakers.
Because JC would need all the help.
PATFO needs to get busy this off-season, because I'm ready to switch my sports to soccer if they continue to play it cheap.
Collins was a 20/10 guy... on an Atlanta team that had a terrible record. This season he was a 17.6/7.4 guy during the season and a 13.9/8.7 guy in the playoffs. I think that's closer to the real John Collins. 20/10 sounds impressive, but something like 15/8 with mediocre defense, while interesting, isn't quite as alluring, and probably not part of a max contract conversation.
Last edited by R. DeMurre; 07-08-2021 at 01:41 PM.
I understand what you’re saying, but what does it say about Collins if he can’t be a top 3 guy on a team like the Hawks? Why would it work here?
What would the Collins max look like actually?
Why do folks think Lauri would work for our currently constructed roster better at the 4? I don’t think Lauri is mobile enough defensively to play the 4 alongside Poetl.
Jakob moves pretty well for a center but he still isn’t the quickest laterally and gets picked on a bit with teams using the pick & roll. I think having two big guys playing side by side a lot who aren’t the greatest at laterally moving is a recipe for disaster defensively. Maybe if Lauri was a good weak side blocker that could help, but unfortunately he isn’t.
if Samanic was to finally figure out on both sides of the ball he would be the perfect fit beside Jakob because he has really good laterally quickness. But his weak side defense needs alot of work. He showed last season to have gotten better on man to man defense though.
yeah but it sucks we have to max that guy
Collins is not max guy. However we do have excess cap and need to make moves.
I guess a bigger first year salary gradually lessening would be ideal. So by 3rd year or so he will be paid 25-27m which will make it easier to navigate and sign other players.
For case of Lauri. If we spend say 15-20m. The next question is who else should we sign for the remaining 10-15m. That will be the comparison point.
Jae Crowder is the gold standard of the PF position now. 6 3PA per game and versatile switch defense.
Who are the top guys in Atlanta you think? Although close with Collins, Bogdanovic and Capela, I would choose Collins as their 2nd most dangerous player. When you have Trae Young getting the ball like Harden and Doncic then you can see why Capela and Bogdanovics' of the world are getting fed but Collins was still very effective and shoots a high percentage from 3. If Trae ever goes down, Collins would easily be average 20 & 10 and keeping the ship afloat I'm sure. That Hawks team if intact should compete for a while.
I will say he may be worth max money to some teams but to ours, I would pass unless its around $25-27M/yr.
I can understand the trepidation over the potential of signing Collins to a Max offer sheet but I also see the small chance it could turn out to be a good contract in the long run.
Looking at his numbers the guy has consistently been a pretty efficient scorer since getting drafted and he only got better actually shooting the ball with range each season. He is a good rebounder and solid on defense already and he will be only 24 when the new season starts back. He has two seasons where he averaged (if you round up lol) 20 points per game on very good shooting % numbers. The season he averaged less points and minutes per game but Atlanta had more offensive weapons and he still averaged almost 18 points per game this season.
Collins would be featured more with us which could expose him a bit offensively or, it could help him show or unlock more of his 1on1 skills. Not too mention Pop and the coaching staff would definitely do a good job drawing up plays to get him looks in his sweet spots.
he is a way better all around player than Lauri and he is still young. The team has to spend money on players so they might as well go for a guy who potentially has a chance to be an all star. When Atlanta traded for Joe Johnson many years ago they knew he was a good player but he became an all star once he got there. The same could maybe happen if we got Collins…… or he could just turn out to be a sold role player that’s slightly over paid. Lmao.
he is also a military brat who does a lot for veterans in and around Atlanta so they would love him in San Antonio
Collins will probably be better as a Spur. I think he's one of those guys who is thought of as just a product of a team or role and then surprises when he gets the chance to take on more in a new spot.
Remember people thought Joe Johnson was just a 3rd-4th option. James Harden was just a 6th man who was trash in the finals who would be exposed without alphas like Durant and Westbrook. Amar'e without Nash would be Hakim Warrick, and Warrick with Nash would be Amar'e. Nash without Dirk would be nobody.
Also, he's better than Lauri. Even if you ignore that Collins is a much better defender and I feel more complete offensive player, he has been more dependable. Lauri has had more injuries and fatigue issues. If people think they'll be annoyed watching Collins get paid 28 to play, they're going to feel worse when Lauri is getting 20 and is sitting in street clothes because of some syndrome or coming off the bench because Samanic/Sengun/Franz stepped up when he was out and the team looked better.
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