Reasonable trade ideas

[AFBlue]

having 3 second rounders and and their own 1st is grea- However if retained it is unlikely to be of immediate help. Even the great so- called missies of 03 Barbosa nad Howard took a year or two to blossom. This team needs help now or very soon.

With a draft this deep, potentially, there should be a few "immediate contributors" that last until the latter half of the first round, but your point is well taken...especially with Pop's reluctance to play young players immediately.

[Mr. Body]

having 3 second rounders and and their own 1st is grea- However if retained it is unlikely to be of immediate help. Even the great so- called missies of 03 Barbosa nad Howard took a year or two to blossom. This team needs help now or very soon.

That second late 2nd rounder helps at least marginally, since it's a freebie 'international pick-n-stash', increasing the likelihood the Spurs take a domestic player around there. Some drafts have a decent prospect like a Curtis Sumpter down that late. More likely the Spurs draft Sergei Karaulov's brother, sight unseen. Or they can package two late picks for a pick in the middle of the second round.

In any case, it will take two years, probably, to update this team. Plan 2008 is still very important, because they can bring in a couple good players in the midst of their careers. But they have to start with a very good draft this year.

[mountainballer]

More likely the Spurs draft Sergei Karaulov's brother, sight unseen.

or maybe they draft Borat Sagdiyev.

[Maddog]

With a draft this deep, potentially, there should be a few "immediate contributors" that last until the latter half of the first round, but your point is well taken...especially with Pop's reluctance to play young players immediately.

my fingers are crossed, but I'm not sure I see help around the corner for this year or next. Yhis is a concern as the window of oppurtunity is shortening with Tim and Manu. Of course after 02 I didn't see a le in 03.
As as Pop's reluctance to play young players- I would disagree to a small extent. Tony started as a rookie and Beno got major minutes as a rookie, Claxton was a second year player. I think it's clearly a case by case scenario. Recently the Spurs haven't had a lot of good young players.

[AFBlue]

my fingers are crossed, but I'm not sure I see help around the corner for this year or next. Yhis is a concern as the window of oppurtunity is shortening with Tim and Manu. Of course after 02 I didn't see a le in 03.
As as Pop's reluctance to play young players- I would disagree to a small extent. Tony started as a rookie and Beno got major minutes as a rookie, Claxton was a second year player. I think it's clearly a case by case scenario. Recently the Spurs haven't had a lot of good young players.

I realize Tony, Beno and Speedy got alot of "burn" as young players, but it seems that they were given the opportunity due to "roster turnover". I just don't see much room for "new blood" in next year's roster. Horry and Bonner are the only players of consequence to the rotation that come off the books for sure. Given that both duplicate a talent (3pt shooting), I see only one coming back. This gives room for a Scola (if he signs) or a Butler to step in, though the minutes would be undecided. Other than that, Oberto and Finley have player options, though it's likely they'll exercise those options as there doesn't seem to be a market willing to give them more than they make + playing time.

Bottom Line: Next year's likely roster has little potential for current Spurs riding the pine (Butler & White) to step up, let alone players that have yet to be drafted.


BTW....is James White under contract with the Spurs next year or was that multi-year contract with the Pacers? Is he a FA in summer?

[Maddog]

I think if a player is halfway decent Pop will play him. I'm not real sure about Butler- but from what I have seen and what Ludden has written-At present he is not that good.
I think next pre-season early part of the season a lot people could get looks. White was brought in a little late and Butler was a blob.

[Big P]

James White is under contract next year for $687,456.

[AFBlue]

I think if a player is halfway decent Pop will play him. I'm not real sure about Butler- but from what I have seen and what Ludden has written-At present he is not that good.
I think next pre-season early part of the season a lot people could get looks. White was brought in a little late and Butler was a blob.

Always back to the Ludden article and assumptions on Butler based on lack of PT with some people....

Ludden made one comment in one article, which was a Q&A session...saying that the coaching staff "hadn't seen much." That plus his lack of PT (25 minutes TOTAL in 5 games) leads people to the conclusion that he can't play. Well, I don't buy it. I think this kid is certainly a project, but I wouldn't put it past him to play and produce if given the opportunity...therein lies the problem.

As you alluded to with the "late arrival" of James White, Pop seems to set his rotation...or at least the 12 he likes to dress out at a very early time and stick with that group for the season. Bonner, for instance, only got PT because others went down with injury and it's happened in past (Oberto wouldn't see the light of day if Nazr and Rasho were still on the team).

You are right about summer league and preseason for next year....there could be some really critical decisions made for the future at that time.

[AFBlue]

James White is under contract next year for $687,456.

Great, that'll give the Spurs another year to evaluate whether he's a piece on this team for the long-term. Hopefully Finley opts out for some crazy reason and presents Flight with the opportunity to perform.

[mountainballer]

having 3 second rounders and and their own 1st is grea- However if retained it is unlikely to be of immediate help. Even the great so- called missies of 03 Barbosa nad Howard took a year or two to blossom. This team needs help now or very soon.

in the current situation, Spurs should go for a NBA ready player in the draft and not speculate on upside (like when they drafted Mahinmi and Sanikidze)
the next draft will see some of the more expirienced players slip, because of all the freshmen who will enter the draft.

the best case scenario for the Spurs might be, that Alondo Tucker slips till the end of first round. or also Acie Law.
the Spurs are not in urgent need for special talent, they still have it in Tim, Tony and Manu, but they are desperate for athletic role players.
I can see Tucker and Law (and maybe some more) contribute right away and for sure be an upgrade over Beno, Barry and Finley, even with no NBA expirience.
the other option is of course Scola. with his expirience, he should be able to become an impact player soon. (it took Manu half a season to adjust to the NBA, Scola might be similar). the third option was a FA for the MLE. (dream scenario: Gerald Wallace becomes a FA, can't get a bigger contract because cap-space teams go for Billups, Carter, Lewis, Nocioni, Varejao and then signs a long term contract for the MLE)
those three should help, if Tim and Scola can co-exist, Scola would start soon and Tim move to center. a back-up PG comes via trade, so does a center.
a starting 5 of Tony-Manu-Wallace-Scola-Tim looks contender to me.
(wow, I'm desperate. it's 2 AM here in Europe)

[spurtime]

San Antonio Trade Breakdown

Outgoing

Manu Ginobili
6-6 SG from Argentina (Foreign)
16.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.3 apg in 28.1 minutes

Eric Williams
6-8 SF from Providence
2.5 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.2 minutes

Robert Horry
6-10 PF from Alabama
3.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 17.4 minutes

Matt Bonner
6-8 PF from Florida
4.8 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.4 minutes

Incoming

Jason Richardson
6-6 SG from Michigan State
12.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes

Adonal Foyle
6-10 C from Colgate
2.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.6 minutes

Mickael Pietrus
6-6 SG from France (Foreign)
13.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.9 apg in 30.7 minutes
Change in team outlook: +0.4 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and -1.5 apg.


Successful Scenario
Due to Golden State and San Antonio being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and San Antonio had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

[Kori Ellis]

James White is under contract next year for $687,456.

It's a team option.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wait, why are Spurs fans trading Manu?

[Kori Ellis]

Wait, why are Spurs fans trading Manu?

Same reason they are trading Tony, I guess

[spurtime]

Wait, why are Spurs fans trading Manu?

You have to give up something to get something. The way I look at it, The Timmy window is closing fast. The more talent we can surround him with the better. I love Manu, but I also realize that he's lost a step and isn't as consistently dominant as he was a few years ago.

The reason I mention GS as a potential trade partner is because #1 They seem to be writing off this season after Baron Davis' recent knee troubles, #2 They seem willing to unload their high dollar long term deals, like JRich and Foyle, after they already moved Mrphy and Dunleavy and #3 They have a glut at the 2/3 spot since the Indy trade.

I recognize that JRich's deal goes beyond the accepted wisdom in terms of length. But this team needs an infusion of athleticism and young depth at the 2/3 spots. JRich and Pietrus would provide that. I added the Foyle deal as an incentive for GS to get a deal done...He's got a bad contract. Foyle is serviceable enough to make up for some of the minutes we lose from Horry and Bonner (if and when he's healthy).

[TMTTRIO]

Honestly I wouldn't mind trading Manu or letting him go. At least we would stop having all these Tony vs Manu threads .

[Gros Membres!]

Honestly I wouldn't mind trading Manu or letting him go.

Count me in...I'd rather see Many go than Tony. And I love Manu (yes, got the jersey). I love the way he plays the game but I don't see how his body can hold up much longer the way he has been playing for the past 3 years. If GS had any other big man other than Foyle I would certainly consider it. Foyle is the deal breaker here.

[spurtime]

Count me in...I'd rather see Many go than Tony. And I love Manu (yes, got the jersey). I love the way he plays the game but I don't see how his body can hold up much longer the way he has been playing for the past 3 years. If GS had any other big man other than Foyle I would certainly consider it. Foyle is the deal breaker here.

I'm glad you can be objective about this. Manu is the most expendable of the big 3. If he could get us 2 very good players we might need to make a move. The obvious question is whether we could mesh prior to the playoffs if we made this deal. My answer to that is that we look like first round fodder as it is.

The reason I made Foyle a part of the package is that I think our taking his deal is the only reason the Warriors would make a trade.

[pad300]

San Antonio Trade Breakdown

Outgoing

Manu Ginobili
6-6 SG from Argentina (Foreign)
16.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.3 apg in 28.1 minutes

Eric Williams
6-8 SF from Providence
2.5 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.2 minutes

Robert Horry
6-10 PF from Alabama
3.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 17.4 minutes

Matt Bonner
6-8 PF from Florida
4.8 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.4 minutes

Incoming

Jason Richardson
6-6 SG from Michigan State
12.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes

Adonal Foyle
6-10 C from Colgate
2.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.6 minutes

Mickael Pietrus
6-6 SG from France (Foreign)
13.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.9 apg in 30.7 minutes
Change in team outlook: +0.4 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and -1.5 apg.


Successful Scenario
Due to Golden State and San Antonio being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and San Antonio had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Do you really think that Richardson and Pietrus are so much better than say Corey Magette and James Singleton. Consider that Magette and Singleton for Manu works straight up. The spurs don't have to take Foyle's contract, Keep Bonner and Horry for the playoffs, and can use William's expiring as bait for a back-up pg. And I'm pretty sure that the Clippers would take that trade.

Although I'm not philosophically opposed to trading Manu, I will say that if we do, we should try to get a better deal than what you have proposed.

[timvp]

Uh there might be five players in the NBA I'd trade Manu for.

Might.

[ArgSpursFan]

San Antonio Trade Breakdown

Outgoing

Manu Ginobili
6-6 SG from Argentina (Foreign)
16.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.3 apg in 28.1 minutes

Eric Williams
6-8 SF from Providence
2.5 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.2 minutes

Robert Horry
6-10 PF from Alabama
3.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 17.4 minutes

Matt Bonner
6-8 PF from Florida
4.8 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.4 minutes

Incoming

Jason Richardson
6-6 SG from Michigan State
12.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes

Adonal Foyle
6-10 C from Colgate
2.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.6 minutes

Mickael Pietrus
6-6 SG from France (Foreign)
13.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.9 apg in 30.7 minutes
Change in team outlook: +0.4 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and -1.5 apg.


Successful Scenario
Due to Golden State and San Antonio being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and San Antonio had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

If Manu was a selfish guy who just wanna show off night in and out,he´d love to go to golden state,He could be bigger tham Wade playing for a Don Nelson´s team,puttin 20+ppg 30+mpg and 7+apg.
But He just wanna win.Even coming from the bench

[ArgSpursFan]

A question to you all,Can the spurs offer Oberto to Tau in order to lower Scola´s Buy out and finally bring him to SA?like a kind of trade but outside the NBA
would this work?

[spurtime]

Do you really think that Richardson and Pietrus are so much better than say Corey Magette and James Singleton. Consider that Magette and Singleton for Manu works straight up. The spurs don't have to take Foyle's contract, Keep Bonner and Horry for the playoffs, and can use William's expiring as bait for a back-up pg. And I'm pretty sure that the Clippers would take that trade.

Although I'm not philosophically opposed to trading Manu, I will say that if we do, we should try to get a better deal than what you have proposed.

I think JRich is better than Maggette and Singleton combined. He's just had some freak injuries this year. From a pure talent standpoint I think you're wrong. What kind of player do you think we can get? Paul Pierce?

[spurtime]

If Manu was a selfish guy who just wanna show off night in and out,he´d love to go to golden state,He could be bigger tham Wade playing for a Don Nelson´s team,puttin 20+ppg 30+mpg and 7+apg.
But He just wanna win.Even coming from the bench

Listen...I'm not pushing Manu out the door or anything. I love him as a player and he has my respect. I also realize that he's the most expendable of the big 3 and could bring us back players that might turn our fortunes around. It would suck to lose Manu in the process, but I don't think we can get back the type of talent we need without considering it.

[ArgSpursFan]

Listen...I'm not pushing Manu out the door or anything. I love him as a player and he has my respect. I also realize that he's the most expendable of the big 3 and could bring us back players that might turn our fortunes around. It would suck to lose Manu in the process, but I don't think we can get back the type of talent we need without considering it.

i wasn´t being sarcastic,spurtime,I was just being honest,and was giving you my opinion about your trade scenario.
But who do you think will win out of that trade?
the spurs or the Warriors?
who would increase the home game tickets sales,and maybe a chance to become a playoffs more serious team?
and ,you honestly think that richardson and pietro can do what manu is doing right now for the spurs?
you need to put that on the incoming/outgoing stuffs as well.
I think the Warriors would do it in a heart beat