Kawhi wasn't leading the league in PPG at 33, nor was his team 13.5 games ahead of the next closest team. Two totally different situations to me.
They aren't perfect analogies, but the Spurs and Warriors were far and above the two best teams in the league, and Kawhi was by far the best two-way player in the league that year. The Spurs did finish 14 games above the MVP's team that year. I actually thought he was more deserving that season that he was the previous when he finished 2nd in MVP voting.
16-17 Kawhi was having one of the best individual seasons of that decade. Only LeBron, KD, Steph, Harden reached that level in the 2010’s. when you factor in his DPOY level defense I think he was second to only prime Lebron in terms of overall impact.
That Spurs team had a very real chance of beating the Warriors until Steve Kerr no doubt told Zaza to be real aggressive on his closeouts. Look how close Houston got to beating the Warriors the next year. That Warriors team was great but not some unbeatable unstoppable force. Lamarcus would have pounded them inside as well.
When it's the greatest season any player has ever played, it's bull if he doesn't win.
Not even hating on SGA. He's balling out too.
reminds me of Wilt's 50/25 season which also happened the same year as the Big O's triple double season... but Russell won the MVP. It was bull back then and it's bull now.
Why are we talking about SGA in Castle's ROTY thread? Come on folks.
Risacher has quietly had a really good post all star season. I don't think Castle is a lock. Risacher is shooting better and he was a dud at the start of the season.
How well is Risacher playing? Not talking about stats, but is he a big part in Atlanta winning games?
he's been starting for them all year. with his poor shooting he probably was holding them back at times earlier in the season, but basically since the new year he's been quite good for them. his success made it easier for them to move on from Hunter. also helps that the guys they got back, Levert and Niang, have also played pretty well since the trade, particularly Niang
Bc Castle has this b on lockdown. He is Mr. ROY.
Now Jokic is the best player in the nba and it isn’t even close. He should win MVP this year but he won’t. And the funny part is the narrative around both players. Jokic is seen as having an all-star on his team in Murray (even tho Murray has never been an all-star) while SGA is seen as having no help even though he has (my vote for the DPOY) but at the very least all-nba 1st team defense on his team and and actual all-star on his team as well as a a very solid player in Chet.
OKC has a record that kills the rest of the league so I get why you could vote for SGA, but let’s be honest Joker has better FG% overall, from 3pt land, and 10% better EFG%. He has averages way more assists than SGA and like 3xs the rebounds. SGA has him in points and ironically .2 more blocks per game.
People keep bringing up Westbrook but WB never had this efficiency ever in his life, never shot the ball that well in his life, only did dump off passes for his assists, and if not for Steve Adams then he wouldn’t have the rebounds either. Joker should (he won’t) win his 4th MVP and tie LeBron.
Team success plays a major part in this. I can guarantee you that if Jokić was putting up these stats and his team wasn't in the playoffs, I'm pretty sure his name wouldn't be high in the MVP ranking, if he's in there at all. Same debate as Wemby for the DPOY last year. That W-L record means a lot.
Shai is playing in the MJ/Kobe realm right now, but with better efficiency. Unreal how easy he makes it look. I'd probably vote for Shai even though Jokic is otherworldly numbers wise and is insanely good at everything with no athleticism.
It feels like Shai can get a bucket any time he wants. The OKC record should count for something, too. It will be interesting to see if anyone can stop him in the playoffs.
went back to tank commander mode after just one game of proper basketball.. eh, he'll be fine if we get a good coach next year.
Yeah but what line are you drawing for the WL? Ultimately the individual award is based on team construction, which is outside of the control of the player. Some years they are penalized for it (most years). Sometimes they aren’t (Westbrook).
I'm suprised he's dominating this much as I wasn't too impressed with him in the Olympics at all. I know that doesn't really mean anything at all, but I'm surprised his efficiency is this high.
I still think the Nuggets would be a much worse team (probably have less wins that the Spurs if you take Jokic off the team) and maybe be on the bottom of the standings without him. I think OKC would still have a better record that the Nuggets if you take Shai off the team (not sure if you guys agree?). Right or wrong, that is the criteria I'm basing my MVP on. I don't feel record should play a huge part as long as team's aren't too far apart. I know there's a bit of a gap between records this season, but it's not like the Nuggets are 8th, they were right there for 2nd place before Jokic went out with an injury. Teams with the best record usually have more than one good player. If you ask me, this is one of the toughest MVPs to choose. I feel they both deserve co-MVP for different reasons (Jokic for carrying the Nuggets with insane numbers and Shai for his amazing efficiency and leading the Thunder to the number 1 record).
Last edited by Ice009; 03-26-2025 at 02:57 PM.
I kind of hate SGA as a player. Seems like a product of the particulars of the NBA game (flopping, star calls). Obviously he's really good but he reminds me too much of Harden.
This is always an interesting conversation to me.
Say Shai is worth +10 wins for OKC (65 wins versus a theoretical 55 wins without him).
Now let's say that Jokic is worth 20 wins for DEN (50 wins versus a theoretical 30 wins without him).
It's easy to look at that and say that Jokic is more valuable to Denver than Shai is to OKC... but that assumes that the incremental value of each win is constant. However, there is an argument to be made that the difference between being a 55-win team and a 65-win team (that's the difference between being a contender in your conference to being an overwhelming le favorite) is more valuable than the difference between being a 50-win team (second round playoff team) and a 30-win team (lotto team).
It's a fun philosophical exercise to think about. There is no right or wrong answer, which is why there exists an entire industry just for arguing over like this
Castle needs to pick it up, Sarr just went for 24-7 with 2 blocks and 4/7 3 PT.
Pretty insane we are already shrugging these type of lines as if that's is what is expected from him
Castle is one of the most imposing, physical rookie guard I have seen in a long time. And, once again, shooting will determine the layers of Stephon's ceiling. Free throw shooting needs to be immediately worked upon. Can't be leaving 3-4 points on the table every game.
shot under 40% from the field and the free throw line tho
^ nuts! And the game was compe ive too, so not just filler stats.
Damn almost triple-doublePretty insane we are already shrugging these type of lines as if that's is what is expected from him
Castle is one of the most imposing, physical rookie guard I have seen in a long time. And, once again, shooting will determine the layers of Stephon's ceiling. Free throw shooting needs to be immediately worked upon. Can't be leaving 3-4 points on the table every game.
Castle averaging 16.4 FGA p/GM in March, just a tad under Vassell's 16.6.
What's wild though is the FTA, (which suggests Castle is shooting a lot more than that and is actually the #1 option atm for the Spurs) and minutes (obviously).
Castle averaging 6.4 FTA p/GM in March to Vassell's 1.9...
also while playing ~ five mins less per game. Impressive...
Roty is definitely his to lose
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