I'm smoking Jackie's fouls in Summer League.
You are just looking at this too negatively...
If the Spurs weren't going to play Butler(and let's face it, they weren't)...then yes...
I'd say moving Butler's(contract) and Scola for a second rounder is better than just moving Scola for a second rounder.
Butler is not = to Raja Bell....in Pop's eyes. Pop never had Raja Bell on the roster for a year to play when he wanted to play him....and then didn't play him.
To me it is obvious now that the entire purpose of the first phase of Summer League was to move Jackie Butler....
It's been noted they wanted Mahinimi over here this year...they have limited roster spots. They got $$$ and a second rounder for Scola instead of just a second rounder.
I know you guys like Jackie...I liked him too...but the kid freaking takes plays off on offense...on offense...on offense! It's a problem.
No that's not what happened. Barnes has worked out for San Antonio a couple summers, but he never wanted to play here. He really wants to stay in NorCal. He almost quit the NBA and went to the NFL before signing with the Warriors because he didn't want to play outside of the area. He had a really bad experience in Philly and doesn't want to leave California again.
But if the Warriors don't hurry up and sign him, he might have to.
It looks like they have now already got a deal with him making $3-3.5M in the first year.
You really want to compare Butler's and Elson's summer league stats? Let me know if you do and I'll get the numbers. And keep in mind this is a 28-year-old Elson getting owned in summer league.
It's a fact that you hate Elson more than anyone this side of AJ(your words, not mine)....not only becuase of a general dislike of his game...but as well because he gave you your worst owning ever.
The simple truth of the matter is that...one Gregg Poppovich, played Elson over Butler...whether you like it, or not...
Just like he kicked Devin(timeout) Brown's ass to the curb without ever giving you guys notice that the worm had turned.
It happens...
Elson is big fast and athletic...and he can be out there and completely have his head up his ass, and still be more productive than most role playing centers would be in our system. In fact he was...
Thanks. NFL? Interesting...No that's not what happened. Barnes has worked out for San Antonio a couple summers, but he never wanted to play here. He really wants to stay in NorCal. He almost quit the NBA and went to the NFL before signing with the Warriors because he didn't want to play outside of the area. He had a really bad experience in Philly and doesn't want to leave California again.
But if the Warriors don't hurry up and sign him, he might have to.
I think the friendly folks in SA could show him the kind of down-home hospitality that he'd never find in Philly. Tell him to come on down. Have a margarita and barbacoa at Taco Cabana
I think this may mean something good in the bigger picture...
...wait, no I don't.
I owned myself when I apologized for thinking I could be wrong. Go back and read my posts of what Elson would be before the Spurs signed him and it was exactly right. Fast, can dunk but has too low of a basketball IQ to be a starter on a championship team. I said he'd be decent as a backup center ... which he was.
I learned my lesson and won't doubt timvp after one game.
He was an All-American wide receiver back in the day.
Hey...welcome to the club.
He does more than just stats...he just kind of s stuff up...
But hey, he's fast and can pull down uncontested rebounds and put out his elbows to pretend he accomplished something better than most.
He's got better hands than Rasho and Nazr and he dunks better...and he can guard smaller players better.
Keep in mind...he straight up beat Oberto out of the starting spot in training camp with virtually no experience in our system. That was because of the way he can stuff up without having the system down...
Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen won six les surrounded by 6'8 versions of Elson...
really it sucks !!
Jackie was very young and show a lot during the summerleague and scola is a real great player the spurs receives nothing for this trade !
I haven't seen him guard anyone very well.and he can guard smaller players better.
Hopefully he improves next year because it looks like the Spurs are stuck with him.
Say what you want about Frankie...at least he can run up and down the court more than 2 times in a row without passing out under his own basket.
...I am 39 and smoke and I can get up and down the court better than Butler.
It was a problem...it was a problem you guys were turning a blind eye too because of Butler's obvious offensive talent...I tried to do it too...but after a while it just became obvious that Butler can't tell the difference between being in the NBA and playing a pick up game at the YMCA.
I could slam 2 beers, and smoke a half pack of cigs and still get up and down the court better than Butler...
I figure it took Pop about 5 seconds to make this decision. Especially after the one edict Butler had from Pop...was to get into shape.
An edict that was also given to Ian...which Ian did.
Agreed.
Should I go dig up some Oberto hating threads from last offseason?
Can anybody explain this alleged Spurs' scouting report on Spanoulis from Wikipedia (scroll down about half way)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ldid=141756980
Is this pure B.S.?NBA Scouting Report From San Antonio Spurs October 2006
While most compe ion in European basketball is considered to be either at the NCAA division one College basketball level or lower, compe ion in the Spanish league Asociación de Clubs de Baloncesto, Italian league Serie A (basketball), and Greek league A1_Ethniki is considered to be one step above the college level, even one step above the NBDL level. The Greek league is more recently considered the top compe ive level of European basketball. Spanoulis' success at that level, combined with his success in the 2006 World Basketball Championship and the 2004 Olympics, which are considered to be near to NBA level compe ion, shows that he has legitimate NBA talent.
This was highlighted by Spanoulis leading the Greek National team to a victory over the United States National team team during the 2006 World championship final four round. Spanoulis scored 22 points in that game and regularly abused NBA point guards Chris Paul, Kirk Hinrich, and Dwyane Wade on both ends of the floor, offensively one on one, as well as in the pick-and-roll, and also on the defensive end in one on one assignments.
Spanoulis is a lightning-quick play-maker guard that can play either position in the back court due to his size at 6'4 3/4" in shoes (1.95m) and at a training camp weight of 203 pounds (92kg). Generally considered to have been a more talented prospect coming out of the European level to the NBA than Manu Ginobili was. Can get into the lane and penetrate at will. Incredibly dept at running the pick-and-roll offense. Will pick up fouls at an amazing rate, even better than Dwyane Wade will. Excellent finisher around the basket and excellent free throw shooter. Tremendous open court and half court abilities on offense. Can create open layups/dunks and open 3 point shots for teammates at will. Breaks down the opposing defense whenever he wants to.
Outstanding one on one defender at either guard spot. Can swipe it from any guard when he wants to. Even though his wingspan is only 6'5" (1.96m) he more than holds his own in the post on defense against bigger and stronger guards. A lock down defender against point guards even on the NBA level. Not a great team defender at the NBA level yet, but has all of the tools to be one and should learn this under Jeff Van Gundy's tutelage in Houston as he has amazing lateral quickness with his feet, great hand speed, and a good solid NBA body, as well as a high basketball IQ on the defensive end of the floor.
Not a good shooter from NBA 3 point range, but has an excellent jump shot from 18-21 feet and has the ability to shoot 37% to 41% from that range. Needs to add about 5 feet of range to his jump shot in order to succeed on a team that features both Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady. Unbelievable court vision and passing ability. A highlight reel assist waiting to happen. Very reminiscent of Steve Nash in his passing and play-making abilities. Like Nash, basketball IQ is off the charts with the rare ability to connect on passes that no other players besides them would even dare to attempt. Should take some time for his teammates to learn to play with him because of this. A drawback of this is that he will always have a high number of turnovers.
Very turnover prone much like Manu Ginobili. Tends to play out of control and helter skelter in a fashion similar to Ginobili at times and like Ginobili also has this defect in his game. However, also extremely compe ive and willful in game situations much like Ginobili. Also excels in big-game moments and in the highest levels of compe ion like Ginobili. Also similar penetration and finishing ability to Tony Parker, although not as good of a ball-handler as Parker. Superior point guard instincts and court vision to Parker. Like Parker not much NBA 3 point range, but is a better shooter than Parker is from 15-21 feet.
Not a great athlete by NBA standards, but a solid one. More than athletic enough to lock down defensively on the perimeter and get into the lane and finish or dish off at the NBA level. Incredible first step, even Leandro Barbosa like. Won't dunk on anyone but will finish in the paint like Parker. Very intriguing point guard prospect with a huge upside.
Thoughts from the morning after...
Yep...still the same.
Actually, I also realized that the Spurs traded away their youngest player, increasing their average age, which I believe is well over 30 now.
I thought they were making a concerted effort to get younger....no?
I have another thought on Scola. Perhaps he's signing for "as much as $3-3.5M in the first year" because they're adding the cost of his buyout into the equation. What if he's due to make no more than $2-2.5M a year in actual salary?
Also, I wish I could say that this seems like a cost-cutting move...but there's the quote about Amir to dispute it. The way I read that quote is that the Spurs were willing to offer in excess of $4M a year, but that he decided to stay in Detroit for less....3yr $11M. How that is attempting to save money, I'll never know.
It simply seems like this was a goodwill gesture to both players in order to get them the playing time that our FO thought they truly deserved....which is rediculous. And it's made even more rediculous by the fact that those players will have the opportunity to play ALOT against their former team.
That is all for now...
The legend that is Jackie Butler will sit on the bench this year behind Yao and Mutumbo and his option won't be picked up by the Rockets next year. He was the price the Rockets paid to get Scola.
Facts or near facts:
1. 28 teams GMS, coaches, assistant coaches ballboys, etc. saw so little in Butler and Scola to make a trivial offer of a few bucks and a late second rounder.
2. Rockets are riding their hopes on solving their PF situation with a guy that drew virtual no interest by other NBA teams. Unprecedented even in the era of Eurobusts.
3. Something to really be concerned about, the Spurs reportedly just made a high dollar offer for a player who was in the NBDL last year, Amir Johnson, who is supposed to bring some of what Mahinmi is supposed to bring. What does that say about Mahinmi and where he's at and will be in the Spurs eye?
But the peeps here know Butler is great and Scola is going to kill the Spurs, somthing 28 other teams front offices are unaware of.
I said some of this last night but here's the story.
Scola was contacted by the Spurs about coming over and his contract. Scola said he did not like the system or the city and would not come over at all ever. He was pissed off that they didn't bring him over last year and stated that he would stay in Europe. Several Spurs officials and Pop talked to him on the phone while in France for Tony's wedding. When it was decided that they would move him. Scola came back and said I just want to play for certain teams. So any deal that was going to be done had to basically have his approval since a team isn't going to trade for him if he's never going to come over and actually play. Therefore, this lowered his value once it got out.
Pop has never liked Butler. He believes that he is lazy out on the floor and isn't smart enough to play in the system. He got frustrated when he would ask him questions and Butler had not read the scouting reports, playbooks or watched film to answer them. He also didn't like that he was always goofing off. So to appease Pop they got rid of him.
Everyone here complaining about how we should have received more for Butler/Scola should just STFU. You're the same people who probably list your house for 500K when it's worth about 250. The axiom "It's worth exactly what someone will pay for it" is about right. For all the hype about Scola, let's just remember he hasn't played one minute in the NBA, and there's no guarantee he turns into a great player in the Rockets "system." As for Butler, I think the Spurs are good enough to evaluate a player and determine if he's a good fit for their system...he's not, at least not right now. With one year left on his contract, what should they have done? Let him ride the bench for 2007-08 and then sign him to a long term extension in the hopes that maybe he 'develops'? Or dump his roster spot so that Mahinmi and Splitter have a chance over the next few years? Bottom line: Butler is no more proven than either of those guys, so why pay him 2.4 million?
I'll trust R.C. on this one, thanks.
No need to give Elson a bad rap just because we lost Jackie. I slept on it, now the trade sucks, but to a lesser degree. I just cant see how Butler would have played in our system, not now and not in 5 years. He is a great offensive talent but you cant teach agility and athleticism, and you certaintly cant teach 7 feet. Jackie was 6'8 without shoes, not quite the advertised 6'10" even in shoes. Secondly, like Scola he doesnt complement Duncan well. I understand Oberto isnt the most athletic guy in the league, in fact he probly couldnt jump over a line - but he has the smarts and IQ adequate in complementing Duncan. Like i said, Butler has an ice cream bucket load of offensive talent, but that just doesnt get it done in our system. As a basketball player, hes just dumb, hence why he couldnt play meaningful minutes. Hes a one trick pony, just like Scola.
The real disappointment for me, like ive said a thousand times, isnt getting rid of the two, it was somewhat ineviteble - its just that i thought a team like Chicago would have bit to a better deal for us. (Then again im sure RC and Pop went down that avenue).
Anyway, i still think the trade sux but after taking my crybaby goggles off the picture is a little clearer.
Thanks.
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