Atheism on the rise in every single US state.

[Blake]

I would attempt a counter arguement, but it's not worth it lol. I think what you want is for religon/god to be clear cut and straightforward as science is and you're basing your expectations on finding answers in regards to god/religon off that.

Ding ding. winner winner, Denny's dinner.

If God created the laws of science and is clear cut about them, then why is it such a stretch for an "omnipotent" God to make one clear cut Bible and/or religion?

Fudge, what I should have said in response to the question "Is it free" is that anybody that knows anything about religon is that the price to pay is to sacrifice this life to follow god's rule and submit your will to him.

now you're talking.

[MiamiHeat]

OH NOE

[MiamiHeat]

lol

[I Love Me Some Me]

As C.S. Lewis puts it...let's play the game the other way around.

Perhaps it is the atheist who, instead of inventing God, have invented their own non-god. Is atheism a reality, or is it just an idea or your own emotional crutch...your own wishful thinking? Has the atheist invented atheism to avoid some of the frightening implications of the existence of this God we speak of?

Throughout history, people of all cultures (primitive and advanced) have believed in God. They don't need to be talked into it. That's just the obvious conclusion they draw. Heck, even a blind, deaf, and mute Helen Keller found God without being taught about Him. Atheism, it seems to me, is the real anomaly here. It seems unnatural, contrived, and artificial. Everyone in this thread who is anti-God seems to ask these questions to talk themselves out of believing. You perform these mental gymnastics just to convince yourself God doesn't exist.

Based on the weight of this conversation was based in free will, and liberty, I can conclude that your decision to not believe in God has less to do physical evidence, and more (if not everything) to do your desire to drive instead of ride shotgun. If you can convince yourself God doesn't exist, you can do what you like on Saturday night, and sleep in on Sunday morning. Behave however you feel, and convince yourself there are no eternal consequences since the God you need to believe in doesn't even exist...so why change my ways? Why give up control...why submit myself to a different authority...I got this...I can handle it...it's my life...I'm the driver. Quit pretending this is about evidence and science, when it's really about control and pride.

I don't know...if I were going to invent a god, I don't think I'd come up with the God of the Bible. A god designed by humans would mirror human sensibilities. He'd think and act like us. And, since we made him up, his moral code would reflect our desires. If we screwed up, he'd shrug his shoulders, pat us on the back, and tell us to try better next time. Hey..nobody's perfect.

But...the thing about the God of the Bible is that he is so unlike us. His wisdom confuses us...His purity is intimidating...He makes moral demands that are hard to live up to, with harsh punishment for those who do not obey...instead of being at our beck and call, He cannot be manipulated.

Is this really the best God we could come up with? Can someone even make that up if they tried? Could you? Is this the god you'd dream up if you were making your own god?

[Cane]

Is this really the best God we could come up with? Can someone even make that up if they tried? Could you? Is this the god you'd dream up if you were making your own god?

Ever here of the Greek and Roman gods? They are notorious for being jealous, hateful, gossiping, bas s and es to eachother and to their followers. Its ing drama.

I suggest reading up on cultural anthropology for the real reasons why religions are seen worldwide and the reasons for them (social control, way of setting up norms/customs, explaining the unknown, $$$, power, etc.)

[I Love Me Some Me]

Ever here of the Greek and Roman gods? They are notorious for being jealous, hateful, gossiping, bas s and es to eachother and to their followers. Its ing drama.

I suggest reading up on cultural anthropology for the real reasons why religions are seen worldwide and the reasons for them (social control, way of setting up norms/customs, explaining the unknown, $$$, power, etc.)

And where is the belief in those Greek and Roman gods now?

[Phenomanul]

for all of your shouting with nothing to really back it up with, you have further cemented my opinion that free will in heaven is lost.

thank you.

Boasting about your stubborness is really quite pathetic...

Look, you don't have to buy in to my beliefs... In fact, I don't expect that out of anyone on a forum... but don't lie and suggest that your original premise wasn't clearly refuted (have you not kept insisting that Heaven will remain the same???)... So go ahead and backpedal all you want... at this point you still haven't shown a single reference to substantiate your own opinion...

Besides, I don't recall getting a memo that stated you were the world's expert on the subject, or anything remotely suggesting that you had the final 'say so' on all such matters... If you have something of the sort, feel free to post it...

[LnGrrrR]

Fudge, what I should have said in response to the question "Is it free" is that anybody that knows anything about religon is that the price to pay is to sacrifice this life to follow god's rule and submit your will to him.

See how easy that was?

[LnGrrrR]

As C.S. Lewis puts it...let's play the game the other way around.

Perhaps it is the atheist who, instead of inventing God, have invented their own non-god. Is atheism a reality, or is it just an idea or your own emotional crutch...your own wishful thinking? Has the atheist invented atheism to avoid some of the frightening implications of the existence of this God we speak of?

Throughout history, people of all cultures (primitive and advanced) have believed in God. They don't need to be talked into it. That's just the obvious conclusion they draw. Heck, even a blind, deaf, and mute Helen Keller found God without being taught about Him. Atheism, it seems to me, is the real anomaly here. It seems unnatural, contrived, and artificial. Everyone in this thread who is anti-God seems to ask these questions to talk themselves out of believing. You perform these mental gymnastics just to convince yourself God doesn't exist.

Based on the weight of this conversation was based in free will, and liberty, I can conclude that your decision to not believe in God has less to do physical evidence, and more (if not everything) to do your desire to drive instead of ride shotgun. If you can convince yourself God doesn't exist, you can do what you like on Saturday night, and sleep in on Sunday morning. Behave however you feel, and convince yourself there are no eternal consequences since the God you need to believe in doesn't even exist...so why change my ways? Why give up control...why submit myself to a different authority...I got this...I can handle it...it's my life...I'm the driver. Quit pretending this is about evidence and science, when it's really about control and pride.

I don't know...if I were going to invent a god, I don't think I'd come up with the God of the Bible. A god designed by humans would mirror human sensibilities. He'd think and act like us. And, since we made him up, his moral code would reflect our desires. If we screwed up, he'd shrug his shoulders, pat us on the back, and tell us to try better next time. Hey..nobody's perfect.

But...the thing about the God of the Bible is that he is so unlike us. His wisdom confuses us...His purity is intimidating...He makes moral demands that are hard to live up to, with harsh punishment for those who do not obey...instead of being at our beck and call, He cannot be manipulated.

Is this really the best God we could come up with? Can someone even make that up if they tried? Could you? Is this the god you'd dream up if you were making your own god?

CS Lewis, while an interesting story teller, didn't provide very useful arguments for Christianity I find. His liar/lunatic/Lord argument has been debunked in many areas.

Anyways, I don't have to DO anything to disbelieve in God, anymore than you have to DO anything to disbelieve in Allah. It's just not there.

My lack of belief does shape my opinions/values in some ways, indeed. But my atheism has little to do with my sense of wanting to drive instead of ride shotgun.

[z0sa]

and it seems people agree, you truly are a moron if you're calling science bull .


you are pathetic. I'm glad I wasn't born a brainwashed, re ed clown.

lol, the pathetic one is you for insulting me when I merely stated my opinion. An appropriate, nonbutthurt response would have requested more information.

its actually funny how far an atheist like yourself will go when I start talking about your precious pseudosciences as bull as well

[Blake]

As C.S. Lewis puts it...let's play the game the other way around.

CS Lewis also figured that Christianity must be right based on the people that have died for it.

Great logic.

Perhaps it is the atheist who, instead of inventing God, have invented their own non-god. Is atheism a reality, or is it just an idea or your own emotional crutch...your own wishful thinking? Has the atheist invented atheism to avoid some of the frightening implications of the existence of this God we speak of?

why would anyone wishfully think that God doesn't exist and that we ultimately cease to exist after we die?

I like the idea of believing in Jesus = eternal life. I just don't buy it.

Throughout history, people of all cultures (primitive and advanced) have believed in God. They don't need to be talked into it. That's just the obvious conclusion they draw. Heck, even a blind, deaf, and mute Helen Keller found God without being taught about Him. Atheism, it seems to me, is the real anomaly here. It seems unnatural, contrived, and artificial. Everyone in this thread who is anti-God seems to ask these questions to talk themselves out of believing. You perform these mental gymnastics just to convince yourself God doesn't exist.

did Helen Keller find Jesus and accept him as Lord and Savior, knowing that he died on the cross for her?

Based on the weight of this conversation was based in free will, and liberty, I can conclude that your decision to not believe in God has less to do physical evidence, and more (if not everything) to do your desire to drive instead of ride shotgun. If you can convince yourself God doesn't exist, you can do what you like on Saturday night, and sleep in on Sunday morning.

so salvation is a free gift, but you still have to pay for shipping and handling.

...but it's still "free".....

Behave however you feel, and convince yourself there are no eternal consequences since the God you need to believe in doesn't even exist...so why change my ways? Why give up control...why submit myself to a different authority...I got this...I can handle it...it's my life...I'm the driver. Quit pretending this is about evidence and science, when it's really about control and pride.

if belief is all I need, then why should I give up control and change my ways?

I don't know...if I were going to invent a god, I don't think I'd come up with the God of the Bible. A god designed by humans would mirror human sensibilities. He'd think and act like us. And, since we made him up, his moral code would reflect our desires. If we screwed up, he'd shrug his shoulders, pat us on the back, and tell us to try better next time. Hey..nobody's perfect.

God is jealous and gets pissed if you don't listen to him and apparently found a human that was a man after his own "heart".....

...but that was Old Testament God.

But...the thing about the God of the Bible is that he is so unlike us. His wisdom confuses us...His purity is intimidating...He makes moral demands that are hard to live up to, with harsh punishment for those who do not obey...instead of being at our beck and call, He cannot be manipulated.

the contradictions confuse us.

Jesus tells the pros ute she's forgiven and to go and sin no more, but in the OT, God kills the dude that pulls out and "spills his seed on the floor".

That line is great for youth ministers to preach about the sin of masturbation.

Is this really the best God we could come up with? Can someone even make that up if they tried? Could you? Is this the god you'd dream up if you were making your own god?

Moses: "God talked to me in a burning bush"
Jim Gaffigan: "Moses, we think you've been burnin' some bush."

[E20]

If God created the laws of science and is clear cut about them, then why is it such a stretch for an "omnipotent" God to make one clear cut Bible and/or religion?

I would love to have a definite answer to this, but the only feasible one that I could think of that makes sense lol.....(sort of) he did it on purpose as a test to see who would follow, but then again, most people are born into a certain religon or just follow it for the sake of convience, so if said religon is the wrong then what would happen? Go to ? I don't know. I'd like to think that if you're a good person and believe that an ominpotent god created us then you're in.

I don't know what if God just gave the right message to christiniaty/islam/judaism/hindu/every other religon and we're all going to heaven?

[Blake]

Boasting about your stubborness is really quite pathetic...

enlarging fonts proves nothing and is even more pathetic

Look, you don't have to buy in to my beliefs... In fact, I don't expect that out of anyone on a forum... but don't lie and suggest that your original premise wasn't clearly refuted (have you not kept insisting that Heaven will remain the same???)...

No, ILMSM insisted that Heaven will remain the same.

I was playing logic games off of that notion.

Thanks for not reading.

So go ahead and backpedal all you want... at this point you still haven't shown a single reference to substantiate your own opinion...

I have never backpedaled.

My opinion is that if sinned is removed and heaven is the same today as it always has been, then free will no longer exists for humans.

I'm not sure what reference you need to substantiate that logic.

Thanks again for not reading.

Besides, I don't recall getting a memo that stated you were the world's expert on the subject, or anything remotely suggesting that you had the final 'say so' on all such matters... If you have something of the sort, feel free to post it...

I don't recall sending a memo that stated I was the world's expert on the subject.

Of course, by your logic, just because we haven't seen such a memo, it doesn't mean that such a memo doesn't exist.

Thanks for verifying your moron status.

Memo to Phenomanul: "You are a moron."

[Blake]

I would love to have a definite answer to this, but the only feasible one that I could think of that makes sense lol.....(sort of) he did it on purpose as a test to see who would follow, but then again, most people are born into a certain religon or just follow it for the sake of convience, so if said religon is the wrong then what would happen? Go to ? I don't know. I'd like to think that if you're a good person and believe that an ominpotent god created us then you're in.

they also come into a religion based on the area they live in. How many Southern Baptist churches are there in Canada? How many mormon tabernacles are in Brazil?

I'd like to think that being a good person is enough and that belief is not part of any equation.

I don't know what if God just gave the right message to christiniaty/islam/judaism/hindu/every other religon and we're all going to heaven?

I'd like to think that is a possibilty of sorts as well.

Since CS Lewis was mentioned.......the final book in the Narnia series is called "The Last Battle" where all the Narnia kids/heroes go to "heaven" with Aslan.......but there is also one that ends up with them that had worshipped a false god and asks Aslan how he got there........and Aslan basically says, "you were really worshipping me all along, you just didn't know it"

[z0sa]

There's a difference between executing someone humanely and stoning them to death. I'm sure you can see that.

Not in this case. God promises for the nonbelievers, is that enough for you to believe? Of course not.

God promises stoning for breaking the ten commandments, all of a sudden everyone follows them without problem - and are happier, healthier and safer because of it. There IS multiple times throughout the OT the majority of Israelites stray from God's commandments and get punished for it, though, which should tell you something about God setting his standard higher for "His people." (thus, its a given that these people felt similar at times and just didn't follow God's laws - and didn't call other people out for it, either)

Like I've said, I guess this answer just isn't good enough, isn't "humane" enough. Well, God is God. He officially put these Ten Things into writing so that we have a guide to go by what NOT to do. When you know what NOT to do, and still do it with knowledge of the eventual punishment, what is unjust, or inhumane? You've been a fool, and God doesn't slap on the hand. Sin is sin, no matter how small or great.

Aren't the parents disobeying God's will then?

Not at all. God has given the parents leeway in this for obvious reasons - no one wants to kill their children. Again, God has only set the standard, the people must adhere to it. I doubt this rule actually ended up being used at all, if you want my honest opinion. The glutton/drunkard part pretty never happened with Israeli children, and by the time they got older, they had left their parents' home.

It specifically said "to death" did it not?

Yes.

Agreed that the laws were at least progressive for slaves. However, it did not mean they WEREN'T slaves. They were still slaves, just that they were well-treated.

Every culture of that day had slaves, yet you'd be hardpressed (perhaps impossibly pressed) to find another culture which gave it slaves these UNALIENABLE rights. Now, I understand your point - that they are still slaves and that's not right. However, many people in other cultures who weren't slaves were denied these basic freedoms. IMO, God saw that as long as the slaves could never be wronged or hurt, they weren't really slaves at all, but workers. If the slaves aren't being wronged, why would God intervene? It's not a great argument, but God typically lets us humans do what we wish - he won't intervene directly.

My point? Why doesn't God seem to be as 'moral' as today's society? If God is ok with slavery, making it moral, why don't we consider it moral, as long as the slave is well-kept?

Humans still keep slaves today - why do you think God gave them unalienable rights?

When it comes down to it, God accepts both slavery and stoning people to death, two things that most societies nowadays would consider immoral. Why do we consider it immoral if God does not?

It may be inferred God is "okay" with slavery, but I don't think that's the case. I think slave trading was so huge then, and slaves desperately needed in actuality for many things, that instead of denying their use, God simply commanded the Jews treat the slaves with human rights, as well as ensuring their freedom should they be wronged in any way.

[I Love Me Some Me]

CS Lewis, while an interesting story teller, didn't provide very useful arguments for Christianity I find. His liar/lunatic/Lord argument has been debunked in many areas.

Anyways, I don't have to DO anything to disbelieve in God, anymore than you have to DO anything to disbelieve in Allah. It's just not there.

My lack of belief does shape my opinions/values in some ways, indeed. But my atheism has little to do with my sense of wanting to drive instead of ride shotgun.

I only cited Lewis for that one-liner, not to use his arguments in this conversation.

My disbelief in Allah is born out of my belief in God. So, yeah, I did something to not believe in him.

Lack of belief? I thought you were agnostic?

[Blake]

Not in this case. God promises for the nonbelievers, is that enough for you to believe? Of course not.

God promises stoning for breaking the ten commandments, all of a sudden everyone follows them without problem - and are happier, healthier and safer because of it.

so if you covet your neighbor's house, you get stoned to death. Great.

Like I've said, I guess this answer just isn't good enough, isn't "humane" enough. Well, God is God. He officially put these Ten Things into writing so that we have a guide to go by what NOT to do. When you know what NOT to do, and still do it with knowledge of the eventual punishment, what is unjust, or inhumane? You've been a fool, and God doesn't slap on the hand. Sin is sin, no matter how small or great.

Well, zosa is zosa.

The punishment doesn't fit the crimes. Not sure why that's a hard concept for you to get.

Is divorce a sin?

Not at all. God has given the parents leeway in this for obvious reasons - no one wants to kill their children.

God doesn't want to kill his non-believing children. He wants to instead torture them for eternity.

Again, God has only set the standard, the people must adhere to it. I doubt this rule actually ended up being used at all, if you want my honest opinion. The glutton/drunkard part pretty never happened with Israeli children, and by the time they got older, they had left their parents' home.

That's not the issue. The issue is that the law is in place to begin with.

Every culture of that day had slaves, yet you'd be hardpressed (perhaps impossibly pressed) to find another culture which gave it slaves these UNALIENABLE rights. Now, I understand your point - that they are still slaves and that's not right. However, many people in other cultures who weren't slaves were denied these basic freedoms. IMO, God saw that as long as the slaves could never be wronged or hurt, they weren't really slaves at all, but workers. If the slaves aren't being wronged, why would God intervene? It's not a great argument, but God typically lets us humans do what we wish - he won't intervene directly.

this is fail on so many levels. You haven't read the old testament much, have you?

Humans still keep slaves today - why do you think God gave them unalienable rights?

It may be inferred God is "okay" with slavery, but I don't think that's the case. I think slave trading was so huge then, and slaves desperately needed in actuality for many things, that instead of denying their use, God simply commanded the Jews treat the slaves with human rights, as well as ensuring their freedom should they be wronged in any way.

so God let slave trading get so far out of hand that he said "oh well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"

well, zosa is zosa.

[z0sa]

so if you covet your neighbor's house, you get stoned to death. Great.

who's going to prove it, and who would know about it except you and God?

Well, zosa is zosa.

I am that is.

The punishment doesn't fit the crimes. Not sure why that's a hard concept for you to get.

Nah, it's not. You just refuse to understand it within the context, or if you do, refuse to believe God could follow through with such harsh punishment. Yet you were not recently led out from slavery yourselves by God's hand only, were you? God sets his people to a very high standard, and the Jews were his people.

Is divorce a sin?

It can be considered a sin, yes, but again, God forgives. Where does it say you will be put to death for divorcing your spouse?

God doesn't want to kill his non-believing children. He wants to instead torture them for eternity.

He wants them out of his presence, and out of his presence is where Satan resides.

That's not the issue. The issue is that the law is in place to begin with.

You don't think Law is necessary? Maybe you don't think execution is necessary.

Maybe God should have thought freeing the Jews slavery in Egypt wasn't necessary. Or writing down these Ten Commandments which must never be broken.

Bottom line is the Jews owed God everything, yet continually strayed from the path. Execution is promised for doing so - yet the entire nation did it time and time again, despite a "true' theocracy. It still wasn't enough that God ordered and ordained it.

this is fail on so many levels. You haven't read the old testament much, have you?

far more than you have.

so God let slave trading get so far out of hand that he said "oh well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"

critical thinking, meet blake. I'm not sure either of you have met before. If you had, he'd know God didn't stop the slave trade in any other nation at any time during history, yet he expects him to have stopped it in ancient Israel, rather than give the slaves unalienable rights essentially securing their freedom at some point. Slaves in America would have been lucky for 1/10th of the rights the Bible guaranteed them 2000 years before.

Americans owned slaves til 1865, AND YET we wrote our own cons ution (not God), including 'all men are created equal, with certain unalienable rights' ... didn't stop those slaveowning writers from keeping on with the slaving. Humans still own slaves today in many countries. You're seriously, blind.

[Blake]

who's going to prove it, and who would know about it except you and God?

and it also makes for a happier, healthier and safer society

I am that is.

You are a moron.

Nah, it's not. You just refuse to understand it within the context, or if you do, refuse to believe God could follow through with such harsh punishment. Yet you were not recently led out from slavery yourselves by God's hand only, were you? God sets his people to a very high standard, and the Jews were his people.

Nah, you just refuse to understand that the punishments throughout the Old Testament were inconsistent with the sins committed.

It can be considered a sin, yes, but again, God forgives. Where does it say you will be put to death for divorcing your spouse?

It doesn't, but it doesn't surprise me that you miss the point.

Divorce is considered a sin by most but is considered acceptable in the Old Testament.

zosa auto response: "everyone else was doing it so God let the Israelites do it"

He wants them out of his presence, and out of his presence is where Satan resides.

...where he wants to torture them for eternity.

You don't think Law is necessary? Maybe you don't think execution is necessary.

Maybe God should have thought freeing the Jews slavery in Egypt wasn't necessary. Or writing down these Ten Commandments which must never be broken.

Bottom line is the Jews owed God everything, yet continually strayed from the path. Execution is promised for doing so - yet the entire nation did it time and time again, despite a "true' theocracy. It still wasn't enough that God ordered and ordained it.

Missing the point is unnecessary.

far more than you have.

if you think that God doesn't intervene directly, then you really haven't read the Old Testament, whether you really have it read it more than me or not.

critical thinking, meet blake. I'm not sure either of you have met before. If you had, he'd know God didn't stop the slave trade in any other nation at any time during history, yet he expects him to have stopped it in ancient Israel, rather than give the slaves unalienable rights essentially securing their freedom at some point.

Missing the point, meet zosa.

Oh, I didn't realize you two were practically BFFs.

Americans owned slaves til 1865, AND we wrote our own cons ution, including 'all men are created equal, with certain unalienable rights' ... Humans still own slaves today in many countries. You're seriously, blind.

Humans owning slaves today has nothing to do with anything.

You're seriously a moron.

[z0sa]

and it also makes for a happier, healthier and safer society

by not coveting your neighbor's ? Of course it does.

I am a moron.

Nah, you just refuse to understand that the punishments throughout the Old Testament were inconsistent with the sins committed.

I tried, you say God is unjust for doing what he says he going to do. You have an problem with the punishment, not the issue itself? Don't break the ten commandments. WOW, its really not that horrible is it?

It doesn't, but it doesn't surprise me that you miss the point.

It is you who has missed the point - which is not surprising.

Divorce is considered a sin by most but is considered acceptable in the Old Testament.

It isn't considered acceptable - it is a standard God set, just like his many other instructions. If two cannot get along, should they hate each other, causing more sin if they cheat or lie or steal, or just divorce and pray for forgiveness and help finding the right one?

zosa auto response: "everyone else was doing it so God let the Israelites do it"

Eh, whatever. God gave them rights every slave elsewhere would have died for.

...where he wants to torture them for eternity.

For all the ed up you and I have done, we deserve it.

Me missing the point is unnecessary.

I know, i tried.

if you think that God doesn't intervene directly, then you really haven't read the Old Testament, whether you really have it read it more than me or not.

Typically he does not. The OT spans thousands of years, how many interventions are you estimating?

Missing the point, meet zosa.

Oh, I didn't realize you two were practically BFFs.

that's really ironic.

Humans owning slaves today has nothing to do with anything.

lol, and you don't understand why my responses don't make sense? you don't even know what i'm talking about.

I'm seriously a moron.

[ALVAREZ6]

lol, the pathetic one is you for insulting me when I merely stated my opinion. An appropriate, nonbutthurt response would have requested more information.

its actually funny how far an atheist like yourself will go when I start talking about your precious pseudosciences as bull as well

how far I will go???

I simply called you a moron....I didn't think that was going very far.

[ididnotnothat]

Call it stupid or whatever but the decline in religion and faith is why so many young punks have no regard to human life or suffering and they are going to pass it on to their kids.

[LnGrrrR]

Humans still keep slaves today - why do you think God gave them unalienable rights?

Would you say that the workers today are analagous to slaves?

It may be inferred God is "okay" with slavery, but I don't think that's the case. I think slave trading was so huge then, and slaves desperately needed in actuality for many things, that instead of denying their use, God simply commanded the Jews treat the slaves with human rights, as well as ensuring their freedom should they be wronged in any way.

Couldn't God have said "No slavery" as one of the many laws the Bible says to follow?

[LnGrrrR]

I only cited Lewis for that one-liner, not to use his arguments in this conversation.

My disbelief in Allah is born out of my belief in God. So, yeah, I did something to not believe in him.

Lack of belief? I thought you were agnostic?

How many times must I state:

Agnostic = Without KNOWLEDGE

Atheist = Without BELIEF

I have no definitive knowledge of God's existence of lack thereof, I have no belief in any God. He may, or may not exist, but I do not believe.

Maybe a poor choice of wording in the Allah/God thing, but my point is that I'm not trying to 'active' unbelieve or anything. I don't even think that's possible. I just don't. *shrug*

[LnGrrrR]

Call it stupid or whatever but the decline in religion and faith is why so many young punks have no regard to human life or suffering and they are going to pass it on to their kids.

Yes, because life has always been sacred up until this moment. Look at the Inquisition, or the way Columbus treated the Native Americans, or WWII, or any of the many areas in which people showed unending gra ude, charity and humility towards their fellow man.