8.9 Quake hits near Northeastern Coast of Japan

[CosmicCowboy]

Uhhh Mouse...no . Seriously.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/dku01

See those little yellow diamonds on the map I posted in Wilson/Gonzales County? Those are mine/processors extracting uranium from the carizzo sands...and thats where our new water supply is coming from...I you not. The water at the ranchito in that same belt of aquifer sands will set off a sensitive geiger counter.

[mouse]

LOL...one more thing for Mouse to worry about when he finally gets up and stumbles to his computer...

Don't confuse worrying with being alert. If you get a knock at your door that there is a rabid pit bull lose in the area do you tell your 10 year old kid to come inside or do you just tell the person at the door that they worry to much and show them a chart on deaths due to pit bulls in your area?

I bet those parents who gave there 3 year old a glass of warm milk last week wished I posted in they're forums.

Now their child may become re ed and have to move to Texas.

After which they get involved in sports and eventually find ST where they create a screen name and start posting that pisses you off then your going to regret the day you ridiculed me.


What WOAI won't show on the news.

[Wild Cobra]

You and Erkel just don't get it. There is no such thing as "safe" amount of "nuclear Radiation" This is not the tanning booth or Xray machines this kills biooch!

Well then. Sorry you live in fear everyday. Any idea how much atomic based radiation is all around us, 24/7?

[CosmicCowboy]

Hey rodent, heres your link to the SAWs radioactive water deal...

http://www.saws.org/latest_news/News...fm?news_id=734

[mouse]

Uhhh Mouse...no . Seriously.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/dku01

See those little yellow diamonds on the map I posted in Wilson/Gonzales County? Those are mine/processors extracting uranium from the carizzo sands...and thats where our new water supply is coming from...I you not. The water at the ranchito in that same belt of aquifer sands will set off a sensitive geiger counter.

That sounds like Uranium 235

First off I don't drink water from the faucet and I have always posted were Bexar county water is always getting contaminated with raw sewage and we only find out 15% of the time.

I was told I need to loosen my tin foil hat. Second of all the radiation you speak of is not Uranium 238 from japan that will kill you quicker.

[mouse]

Well then. Sorry you live in fear everyday.

Stop confusing people who's light bulb goes on faster than the average redneck as fear. Just because certain people you come in contact with that are "intelligent" enough to use life preservers,seat belts, condoms,eye goggles and helmets doesn't mean they are "scared worried or nervous" they are people who practice safety. Next time you see a coach with a defibrillator go tell him or her to stop being so worried. Call him Chicken little, and tell him to bad him and his players live in fear everyday.

See how you look at feel at the end of the day.

Any idea how much atomic based radiation is all around us, 24/7?

It's not how much radiation you guys find in everyday water rocks x-ray machines that I am talking about here, it's plutonium 239 that is leaking from the damaged nuclear reactor is what my posts are about so try and educate yourself on the different "types" of Radiation and side effects before you talk smack also don't compare the effects of a damaged nuclear reactor to the same effects of a cell phone. It makes you look bad.
(unless your Ann Coulter )

[Wild Cobra]

And I believe this is the first time you mentioned plutonium.

I didn't know that 70's reactor design was a breeder reactor.

Link please.

[mouse]

And I believe this is the first time you mentioned plutonium.

I didn't know that 70's reactor design was a breeder reactor.

Link please.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...Radiataion.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...Radiataion.jpg

That pic doesn't say about plutonium.

[CosmicCowboy]

And I believe this is the first time you mentioned plutonium.

I didn't know that 70's reactor design was a breeder reactor.

Link please.

WC, I hit on this just a couple of days after the earthquake. Check out MOX fuel. They just loaded reactor 3 with it last fall. If you want to search here I posted several links.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, I hit on this just a couple of days after the earthquake. Check out MOX fuel. They just loaded reactor 3 with it last fall. If you want to search here I posted several links.

OK, that's right.

Still, I cannot take anything Chicken Little says as credible.

Not much plutonium in it now, is there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the fuel has been found outside the reactor.

[CosmicCowboy]

The fuel may still be in the reactor but the reactor and the containment vessel are clearly breached. The problem is cooling it. Spray water in to cool the rods and highly contaminated water pours out. They are essentially washing the plutonium out of the reactor with no way to decontaminate it. It's a ty situation.

[Wild Cobra]

The fuel may still be in the reactor but the reactor and the containment vessel are clearly breached. The problem is cooling it. Spray water in to cool the rods and highly contaminated water pours out. They are essentially washing the plutonium out of the reactor with no way to decontaminate it. It's a ty situation.

Can you show me the chemistry equations that allow the fuel to be washed out please.

[ChuckD]

Can you show me the chemistry equations that allow the fuel to be washed out please.

Really?

Sometimes I have a really hard time figuring out if you're a troll account or not.

Water is nature's great solvent and carrier, and tends to take whatever it is on, or whatever is in it, with it when it outflows. The water doesn't have to chemically bond with the plutonium to wash it out of the containment core.

[Agloco]

And I believe this is the first time you mentioned plutonium.

I didn't know that 70's reactor design was a breeder reactor.

Link please.

I'll give you three:

1) The basics, and why they were conceived in the first place:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-breeder-react

2) On page 12 of this pdf there is a table which shows the major breeder reactors and when they were operational (and which ones still are).

http://www.fissilematerials.org/ipfm/site_down/rr08.pdf

3) For you ecomonics buffs, one with a more geophysical/economic slant:

http://www.sustainablenuclear.org/PA...11983cohen.pdf

OK, that's right.

Still, I cannot take anything Chicken Little says as credible.

Not much plutonium in it now, is there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the fuel has been found outside the reactor.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12946951

A quote:

Radioactive water is leaking into the sea from a 20-centimetre (8-inch) crack in a containment pit at Japan's quake-hit Fukushima nuclear plant, its operator Tepco has said.

If there's a similar crack in the containment vessel at reactor 3, it wouldn't surprise me to see Pu239 in the immediate vicinity.

Can you show me the chemistry equations that allow the fuel to be washed out please.

Sure......

Under normal cir stances, metallic Zirconium (Zr) doesn't react with air (very quickly that is). At high temps though (like those found in a meltdown or partial meltdown) it will react quickly through the following reaction:

Zr + 2 H2O → ZrO2 + 2 H2

Two major things because of this:

1) The hydrogen gas (H2) which was released mixed with O2 to cause the explosions which tore the outer roofs off of the reactors.

2) About 10-20% of the hydrogen gas then recats directly with the zirconium to form Zn-hydrides. Those hydrides have significantly less tensile strength than the metal, and the cladding weakens (we call it embrittlement) causing the fuel inside to be exposed to the environment.

So because of the explosion and the weakened state of the cladding, we have a situation where seawater is being sprayed DIRECTLY onto the fuel.

Understand that when created, the fuel is sintered into fine pellets. Now that those pellets are exposed to continuous and copious amounts of seawater being sprayed on them, they fall off and to the bottom of the containment vessel.

Unfortunately with an 8 inch crack, this means that those pellets are now free to the environment.

[Agloco]

Water is nature's great solvent and carrier, and tends to take whatever it is on, or whatever is in it, with it when it outflows. The water doesn't have to chemically bond with the plutonium to wash it out of the containment core.

[mouse]

Hats off to Agloco the man knows more than those so called experts on NBC nightly news.

Major Racks!

I wish he would face off with Ann Coulter that needs to be educated, as well as Wild Coca.

Agloco great links!

[Wild Cobra]

Really?

Sometimes I have a really hard time figuring out if you're a troll account or not.

Water is nature's great solvent and carrier, and tends to take whatever it is on, or whatever is in it, with it when it outflows. The water doesn't have to chemically bond with the plutonium to wash it out of the containment core.

Deionized water is. It is like a sponge, but can only soak up so much. Most water in nature has little ability to take up more. The concentrations would be so low of any uranium or plutonium... is it worth mentioning?

[Wild Cobra]

Well, the 8 inch crack is yesterdays news, isn't it? Is that long, or wide...

I was speaking on the metallic uranium or plutonium entering the water. Isn't most the radioactivity we see in the water other short lived radiative elements, from exposure to the fuel?

I'm not trying to say the immediate area is or will be safe. I just think this whole thing is blown out of proportion, like the Iodine-131 in milk.

As for the MOX fuel, it was mentioned and I forgot that they were recycling.

[Wild Cobra]

Skimmed the material you linked. May read it later. Please note, I was thinking of the breeder reactor design that changes uranium to plutonium. The power plants in trouble were not designed as breeders, and that was my point. Using MOX is not the same as a breeder.

[TE]

I'll give you three:

1) The basics, and why they were conceived in the first place:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-breeder-react

2) On page 12 of this pdf there is a table which shows the major breeder reactors and when they were operational (and which ones still are).

http://www.fissilematerials.org/ipfm/site_down/rr08.pdf

3) For you ecomonics buffs, one with a more geophysical/economic slant:

http://www.sustainablenuclear.org/PA...11983cohen.pdf




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12946951

A quote:



If there's a similar crack in the containment vessel at reactor 3, it wouldn't surprise me to see Pu239 in the immediate vicinity.



Sure......

Under normal cir stances, metallic Zirconium (Zr) doesn't react with air (very quickly that is). At high temps though (like those found in a meltdown or partial meltdown) it will react quickly through the following reaction:

Zr + 2 H2O → ZrO2 + 2 H2

Two major things because of this:

1) The hydrogen gas (H2) which was released mixed with O2 to cause the explosions which tore the outer roofs off of the reactors.

2) About 10-20% of the hydrogen gas then recats directly with the zirconium to form Zn-hydrides. Those hydrides have significantly less tensile strength than the metal, and the cladding weakens (we call it embrittlement) causing the fuel inside to be exposed to the environment.

So because of the explosion and the weakened state of the cladding, we have a situation where seawater is being sprayed DIRECTLY onto the fuel.

Understand that when created, the fuel is sintered into fine pellets. Now that those pellets are exposed to continuous and copious amounts of seawater being sprayed on them, they fall off and to the bottom of the containment vessel.

Unfortunately with an 8 inch crack, this means that those pellets are now free to the environment.

Good stuff. Are you a chemist?

[Wild Cobra]

Good stuff. Are you a chemist?

Obviously more than just a chemist.

Agloco...

Do you know what this is:

[TE]

Obviously more than just a chemist.

Agloco...

Do you know what this is:

[Agloco]

Obviously more than just a chemist.

Agloco...

Do you know what this is:

Some process which incorporates scalar, integral and derivative components. "t" probably stands for time since the integral is taken on the positive domain and the differential is first order. Beyond that, no clue.

Good stuff. Are you a chemist?

Physiologist/Physicist. In my younger days I worked in reactor design and operation.

Well, the 8 inch crack is yesterdays news, isn't it? Is that long, or wide...

I don't know. Not that it matters though. With the amount of water being pumped in there's constant agitation and mixing. The pellets will find their way out of the smallest cracks.

I was speaking on the metallic uranium or plutonium entering the water. Isn't most the radioactivity we see in the water other short lived radiative elements, from exposure to the fuel?

At this point yes.



As you can see from the chart as this carries on, the contribution to dose will eventually become solely a function of the longest lived gamma emitter(s). In this case Cs-137 (T 1/2 = 30yr). This will occur regardless of the situation now.

I'm not trying to say the immediate area is or will be safe. I just think this whole thing is blown out of proportion, like the Iodine-131 in milk.

Without getting too technical, you can think of this as a case of mixed secular equilibrium. Why? Well because there's a continuous new supply of radionuclides entering the system (the sea). As long as that's the case, there's continuous dose being given. It matters not what the source is (long or short lived en ies) at that point. What matters then is the dose rate wherever people are living. We simply don't have enough info on that to make a determination on whether or not this is being blown out of proportion. ALARA (as low as reasonably achievable) must be used in any case to protect civilians and workers in that case.

Skimmed the material you linked. May read it later. Please note, I was thinking of the breeder reactor design that changes uranium to plutonium. The power plants in trouble were not designed as breeders, and that was my point. Using MOX is not the same as a breeder.

I guess I misunderstood what you meant. You said:

I didn't know that 70's reactor design was a breeder reactor.

My info was geared to show that breeder reactors were in fact designed and built in the 70's. If you were referring to the Fukushima plants specifically, then yes you're correct.

[Wild Cobra]

Some process which incorporates scalar, integral and derivative components. "t" probably stands for time since the integral is taken on the positive domain and the differential is first order. Beyond that, no clue.

Correct.

It's a basic PID loop algorithm. Proportional, Integral, Differential. It is used for moving mass with motors quickly, having fast controlled accelerations and decelerations, and avoid overshooting and oscillations. Tuning the variables can be a in a three or four axis robot. It can also be used in pressure control systems of fluidics or pneumatics. I worked on semiconductor process equipment as an engineering technician. Best job I ever had. I was doing the engineering testing and working with the designers, in a rapid research and development environment. The equipment used it for the robots moving the wafers, and the pneumatics controlling the process pressures. The PID was part of the robot controller, but the engineers had to design the controls for the pneumatics. The robots still had to be tuned for our application and mass of the end effector we used.