Yahoo: Spurs' talks for Andrei Kirilenko end without deal

[Sean Cagney]

You do find it interesting that nothing has been announced yet regarding these deals, no?

I don't look too much into it really, hope something is brewing because we have way too many similar 2 guards on this team right now.

It could mean alot or it could mean absolutely nothing or something they are up to that we found out was close and fell through! Too many variables here.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Cleveland can still beat an MLE offer, as can Atlanta and Charlotte (assuming they amnesty Tyrus Thomas). Maybe Detroit too. I'm sure AK would like to play for a contender, but there are still teams out there that might be able to buy his way out of that preference.

Atlanta could, but the fact they want to acquire Jennings from the Bucks for a S&T for Teague, that trade will eliminate the extra cap they have right now. Cleveland can't unless they cut their bench players (3 guaranteed) and in doing so, they would essentially erase their Room and MLE just to sign AK while cutting 3 servicable bench players and still wanting to resign Daniel Gibson.

Charlotte, do you think AK would honestly go to the Bobcats. I think that is a 1 in a million shot right there. Bobcats are about 8mil under the cap right now. Spurs can sign AK for the MLE for 5mil w/ PO. He opts out, Spurs extend him for 6mil a year for 3 years. So do you think Kirilenko would chose the Bobcats over the Spurs for 9 mil more over four years. At this point in his career, I don't think he would. Couple with the Fact Texas has no state tax, subtract another 2mil off the 9mil.

[rjv]

You do find it interesting that nothing has been announced yet regarding these deals, no?

everyone seems to forget the CIA rep of the spurs

[Kindergarten Cop]

I'm not putting too much stock into this source, but they are reporting that the TWolves have officially signed Martin and "retained" Brewer.

http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nba/...-retain-brewer

[spurraider21]

look who'se talking. nice edit 15 minutes later

[coyotes_geek]

Great post, thanks.

My only note is that there is still a slight bit of hope that Pendergraph signed for the minimum. There is also hope that Ginobili's contract is smaller than the reported amount (like it was with Duncan and McDyess before him).

But, yeah, AK47 is a very difficult get right now for the Spurs.

Pendergraph on a league min deal would certainly make things a lot easier. A 2yr league min deal is damn near $2 mil total on the nose, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that McDonald confused $2 total for $2 per year.

It would be so incredibly simple for the Spurs to hide some guaranteed money for Manu on the '15-'16 cap year to buy themselves some extra cap room this offseason, so if the Spurs really are giving everything to Manu over 2 years, then that's a pretty telltale sign they were never planning on going for capspace this year.

[Sean Cagney]

Atlanta could, but the fact they want to acquire Jennings from the Bucks for a S&T for Teague, that trade will eliminate the extra cap they have right now. Cleveland can't unless they cut their bench players (3 guaranteed) and in doing so, they would essentially erase their Room and MLE just to sign AK while cutting 3 servicable bench players and still wanting to resign Daniel Gibson.

Charlotte, do you think AK would honestly go to the Bobcats. I think that is a 1 in a million shot right there. Bobcats are about 8mil under the cap right now. Spurs can sign AK for the MLE for 5mil w/ PO. He opts out, Spurs extend him for 6mil a year for 3 years. So do you think Kirilenko would chose the Bobcats over the Spurs for 9 mil more over four years. At this point in his career, I don't think he would. Couple with the Fact Texas has no state tax, subtract another 2mil off the 9mil.

How do you know the Spurs have this much to spend still? You are sure they have the FULL MLE left? If so how? You seem to know more than us about the MLE being left.

everyone seems to forget the CIA rep of the spurs

That is either they are CIA beneath all the scenes or they will just say we like what we have and stand pat and say we got this far and were withing one game of the finals victory last year so we will stand pat and add these two new parts! I can see that happening there and nothing else in reality.

[coyotes_geek]

Atlanta could, but the fact they want to acquire Jennings from the Bucks for a S&T for Teague, that trade will eliminate the extra cap they have right now. Cleveland can't unless they cut their bench players (3 guaranteed) and in doing so, they would essentially erase their Room and MLE just to sign AK while cutting 3 servicable bench players and still wanting to resign Daniel Gibson.

Charlotte, do you think AK would honestly go to the Bobcats. I think that is a 1 in a million shot right there. Bobcats are about 8mil under the cap right now. Spurs can sign AK for the MLE for 5mil w/ PO. He opts out, Spurs extend him for 6mil a year for 3 years. So do you think Kirilenko would chose the Bobcats over the Spurs for 9 mil more over four years. At this point in his career, I don't think he would. Couple with the Fact Texas has no state tax, subtract another 2mil off the 9mil.

No doubt that AK is running out of suitors, but it only takes one to buy him off. I don't see the appeal of playing in Charlotte either, but then I'm not the one who would potentially be making the decision to walk away from a load of money.

[timvp]

The theory saying AK would only want to sign with a contender is shaky at best considering he signed with the Timberwolves last season...

[spurraider21]

Pendergraph being league minimum helps because it doesn't affect anything we want to do. he can be the last official signing after everything else is set an done. you ALWAYS have the vets minimum at your disposal, regardless of cap situation

[Chinook]

Pendergraph being league minimum helps because it doesn't affect anything we want to do. he can be the last official signing after everything else is set an done. you ALWAYS have the vets minimum at your disposal, regardless of cap situation

Except when you have the hard cap of the apron as a result of using the full MLE.

[spurraider21]

Except when you have the hard cap of the apron as a result of using the full MLE.

true, but that's not going to be an issue

[Leetonidas]

look who'se talking. nice edit 15 minutes later

the original picture i posted couldnt be hotlinked

[Kindergarten Cop]

The theory saying AK would only want to sign with a contender is shaky at best considering he signed with the Timberwolves last season...

I'm not saying that they were "Championship" contenders before the season began, but before a lot of their injuries there were a lot of experts putting their eggs in the TWolves playoff basket. I, myself, think that a healthy Love/Rubio would have given Minnesota a great chance of beating out one of the Lakers/Rockets for the 7/8 spot.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

How do you know the Spurs have this much to spend still? You are sure they have the FULL MLE left? If so how? You seem to know more than us about the MLE being left.

They haven't officially signed anyone at this. They can turn the Belinelli and Pendergraph signings into S&T from the Bulls and Indy, which would allow them to still have the Full MLE. Last year all the signings of the Spurs were offically announce the 1st day pretty much. This year, ZERO.

Its just like the Iguodala signing from GS. At first, the Nuggest balked at a S&T, which basically left GS with no MLE. Denver decided getting Foye and a pick was worth the S&T to GS which then allowed GS to use their MLE. Same with the Spurs, they can contact the Bulls and Indy and workout a S&T to acquiring these players opening the MLE for them, since with Manu, Splitter Marco and Pendergraph signings and Neal's tender, the Spurs will only be sitting at about 64 mil of salaries, which far below the tax line which will allow them to still use their full MLE.

Spurs probably realized with everyone except the Bobcats at this point using their Cap Space, the Spurs can now match any playoff contending teams offer of the Service for Kirilenko. So screw Flip, Spurs now just need to work on S&T trading for Belinelli and Pendergraph with the Bulls and Pacers so that they can still have their Full MLE to sign Kirilenko.

[Sean Cagney]

They haven't officially signed anyone at this. They can turn the Belinelli and Pendergraph signings into S&T from the Bulls and Indy, which would allow them to still have the Full MLE. Last year all the signings of the Spurs were offically announce the 1st day pretty much. This year, ZERO.

Its just like the Iguodala signing from GS. At first, the Nuggest balked at a S&T, which basically left GS with no MLE. Denver decided getting Foye and a pick was worth the S&T to GS which then allowed GS to use their MLE. Same with the Spurs, they can contact the Bulls and Indy and workout a S&T to acquiring these players opening the MLE for them, since with Manu, Splitter Marco and Pendergraph signings and Neal's tender, the Spurs will only be sitting at about 64 mil of salaries, which far below the tax line which will allow them to still use their full MLE.

Spurs probably realized with everyone except the Bobcats at this point using their Cap Space, the Spurs can now match any playoff contending teams offer of the Service for Kirilenko. So screw Flip, Spurs now just need to work on S&T trading for Belinelli and Pendergraph with the Bulls and Pacers so that they can still have their Full MLE to sign Kirilenko.

Thats alot of speculation and IFS right there man, have to wait and see what officially happens when they sign.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Thats alot of speculation and IFS right there man, have to wait and see what officially happens when they sign.

It is, but it is VERY MUCH a possibility and being that the Spurs haven't officially signed anyone, it means they pulling out all the cards to make the numbers work so they can obviously acquire another player at this point in time.

[coyotes_geek]

They haven't officially signed anyone at this. They can turn the Belinelli and Pendergraph signings into S&T from the Bulls and Indy, which would allow them to still have the Full MLE. Last year all the signings of the Spurs were offically announce the 1st day pretty much. This year, ZERO.

Its just like the Iguodala signing from GS. At first, the Nuggest balked at a S&T, which basically left GS with no MLE. Denver decided getting Foye and a pick was worth the S&T to GS which then allowed GS to use their MLE. Same with the Spurs, they can contact the Bulls and Indy and workout a S&T to acquiring these players opening the MLE for them, since with Manu, Splitter Marco and Pendergraph signings and Neal's tender, the Spurs will only be sitting at about 64 mil of salaries, which far below the tax line which will allow them to still use their full MLE.

Spurs probably realized with everyone except the Bobcats at this point using their Cap Space, the Spurs can now match any playoff contending teams offer of the Service for Kirilenko. So screw Flip, Spurs now just need to work on S&T trading for Belinelli and Pendergraph with the Bulls and Pacers so that they can still have their Full MLE to sign Kirilenko.

The Spurs can only use the MLE if they're over the cap. If they're over the cap they can't make a trade that adds Belinelli or Pendergraph without them having to send salary out somewhere because the salary matching requirements would apply. Chicago's a luxury tax payer, so they're certainly not going to want to take any salary back from the Spurs. Indiana probably isn't going to be interested either.

[bluebellmaniac]

The Spurs can only use the MLE if they're over the cap. If they're over the cap they can't make a trade that adds Belinelli or Pendergraph without them having to send salary out somewhere because the salary matching requirements would apply. Chicago's a luxury tax payer, so they're certainly not going to want to take any salary back from the Spurs. Indiana probably isn't going to be interested either.

True. It would take a third team to receive those players. Picks (protected or not) would flow to Indy and Chi as compensation.

[rjv]

That is either they are CIA beneath all the scenes or they will just say we like what we have and stand pat and say we got this far and were withing one game of the finals victory last year so we will stand pat and add these two new parts! I can see that happening there and nothing else in reality.

quite possibly-but given the system that the spurs have used with such great success, it may be hard to argue against their logic. other than the heat's mega summer with the unprecedented signings of 3 marquee players i can not recall teams having too much success with their "big splashes" in the off season. most teams that have made it to the top have done so through the draft and the acquisition of solid role players.

[Sean Cagney]

It is, but it is VERY MUCH a possibility and being that the Spurs haven't officially signed anyone, it means they pulling out all the cards to make the numbers work so they can obviously acquire another player at this point in time.

Yes but it is AK or is it somone else on their radar?

quite possibly-but given the system that the spurs have used with such great success, it may be hard to argue against their logic. other than the heat's mega summer with the unprecedented signings of 3 marquee players i can not recall teams having too much success with their "big splashes" in the off season. most teams that have made it to the top have done so through the draft and the acquisition of solid role players.

You are right, but we still need a backup SF on this team and we have too many guards in the log jam right now. If they were going to bring back Neal why did they go sign another guard? Makes no sense right now.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

The Spurs can only use the MLE if they're over the cap. If they're over the cap they can't make a trade that adds Belinelli or Pendergraph without them having to send salary out somewhere because the salary matching requirements would apply. Chicago's a luxury tax payer, so they're certainly not going to want to take any salary back from the Spurs. Indiana probably isn't going to be interested either.

Bulls just waived Richard Hamilton so they are under the Tax and can take on a player. Pacers are well below the Tax line and could take on another player as well. Salaries don't have to Match. Spurs can take on more salaries than given up b/c they weren't a Luxury Tax team last year.

Spurs could throw in a 2nd round pick as well if need be. I forgot how much 2nd round picks are worth like $500,000 are something like that in trade value.

[LarryDavid]

I love the offseason.

[spurraider21]

I love the offseason.

a 30 page thread after an article says talks are over

we the best!

[edmon]

All data from Sham.

Spurs have $41,666,028 in committed salaries (TP, TD, Diaw, Bonner, Green, Leonard, Decolo, Mills, Joseph, Baynes)
Spurs have $30,642,049 in cap holds for Manu, Tiago, Blair, Neal, and LJC's rookie scale slot. (not counting all the cap holds for the ghosts of Robert Horry, Nick Van Exel, etc..)

Spurs current salary cap figure is $72,308,077

1. Re-signing Manu adds $6,746,988 to salary, removes $19,136,250 cap hold. Cap figure would be at $59,918,815; $1,239,815 over the cap.

2. Renouncing rights to Blair, Neal and getting the agreement with LJC that he's not coming this year removes $4,012,199 of cap holds. Spurs now $2,772,384 under the cap.

3. Amnestying Bonner would remove $3,945,000 of salary, but add a $490,180 cap hold because the Spurs will have fallen below the 12 player roster limit. Spurs now $6,227,204 under the cap. Probably not enough to get AK. Definitely not enough to get AK and $2 mil for Pendergraph.

4. The Spurs could salary dump DeColo. Subtracts $1,463,000 of salary, but adds another $490,180 roster charge for falling another player below the 12 player limit. Spurs now $7,200,024 under the cap. Probably getting in the ballpark for AK, but still not enough to get AK and pay $2 mil for Pendergraph.

5. The Spurs could salary dump Mills. Subtracts $1,133,950 of salary, but creates one more $490,180 roster charge. Spurs now $7,843,793 under the cap. A little more money to work with, but still not enough for AK & Pendergraph.

6. At this point, what's the point? Salary dumping Joseph is only going to get you another $700k or so because the Spurs would get hit with another roster charge. $8.5 mil of cap space is probably the salary AK is hoping for, and that still doesn't take into account Pendergraph. Not to mention the Spurs will have had to dump 6 players to get here, with having to orchestrate as many as 3 separate salary dump trades with 3 separate teams. Way too complicated to put it all together, and probably not even worth it at this point.

Conclusion: The Spurs aren't getting AK by signing him outright. It's S&T or bust. Since it's S&T or bust, there's really no point in trying to get under the cap.

Thanks for puttin that all in one place. Do we know the impact of Tiago's contract(less cap hold) yet?