Messi=GOD

[ALVAREZ6]

Well

Let's start with 1 ....

Not saying he will, I think he most likely won't.

[DAF86]

[lefty]

Not saying he will, I think he most likely won't.

of course not

[DAF86]

If Messi was Algerian I will still be saying the same things about him, I doubt lefty would.

[lefty]

If Messi was Algerian I will still be saying the same things about him, I doubt lefty would.

if Messi was Algerian, I would be trolling the out of every forum on teh internetz

[ALVAREZ6]

messi awkward "smile" at end of commercial
lmao advertising = waste of money

[lefty]

[Brazil]

Anyway, I don't think you can clearly say which of the 3 (Pele, Maradona, Messi) is the best when it's all said and done.

If you go like that you have to extend the list... and there is no more who is the best argument.

I don't think you can clearly say which of Pele, Maradona, Garrincha, Cruyf, Platini, Ronaldo (not the ugly Portuguese), Franz B, Di Stefano etc... is the best when it's all said and done.

You have good arguments to say Messi is superior to Franz B ? Messi fans should already be very happy to have their boy in that kind of discussion.

oh and I also disagree on the wc argument is bs. The world cup is the most important achievement you can have, individual achievements in a world cup is what distinguishes you from the rest.

[Brazil]

When I was young and I was dreaming about being a football star like Platini... I was imagining myself the WC trophy not with the champion's league trophy

[velik_m]

When I was young and I was dreaming about being a football star like Platini... I was imagining myself the WC trophy not with the champion's league trophy

Say what? If WC trophy is a measurement of greatness why is Platini being discussed?

[lefty]

Say what? If WC trophy is a measurement of greatness why is Platini being discussed?

Because he almost went to the le game in 82 & 86

[Venti Quattro]

What would be an ideal Argentina team for Messi to win the WC? No idiot Barcelona answers please

[ALVAREZ6]

When I was young and I was dreaming about being a football star like Platini... I was imagining myself the WC trophy not with the champion's league trophy

Well of course, in theory, winning the WC would probably bring the most pleasure of all trophies to anyone. Why? It's once every 4 years, and it's all about national pride. It's only natural. But think about it this way, the great players usually get 3 to 4 WCs to play in if they're lucky...players like Messi who started playing at a high level at a young age, and players that stay healthy. If you're injured for one of those years, you may only play in 2 world cups. And that's asking a lot to win it all in one of those years.

On the other hand, imagine a player has literally all of the technical skills as Pele or Maradona, but plays for Russia. You can't penalize him for not getting it done on the international level, while at the same time glorify Pele for winning with the best teams in the world.




I've just always hated the "championships/rings argument" for any sport. For most people, Phil Jackson is a strictly better coach than Pop even though he coached Jordan and Pippen in a weak NBA, and then won some more with 2 top 10 players of all time in Kobe and Shaq. Any coach with Shaq and Kobe would have won those rings, you simply couldn't stop Shaq in his prime and oh yeah, that young athletic version of Kobe was pretty damn good too.

Pop has been getting it done year after year; the Spurs have always been contenders for more than a decade. Year after year he makes some changes, Manu and Tim are TOSB versions of themselves, and they're still a top 2 team in the west, and could even finish 1st. I don't think you can say that one is definitely better than the other (Pop vs. Phil). Most people will look at their accolades and see that Phil has 11, Pop 4...well next question, Phil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pop. But we should be smart enough to consider all factors, the full context, and give a better analysis.

[ALVAREZ6]

What would be an ideal Argentina team for Messi to win the WC? No idiot Barcelona answers please

Pastore, Messi, Aguero/Tevez (one starts, other subs, too similar to start both), and probably Di Maria (he's getting better) all need to be in the attack. Messi can't be the only playmaker. Messi needs to have energy to go on multiple runs throughout the game, and his runs rely on pure acceleration, speed, and ball control, and all of those things require a great amount of energy being used at once. I think that's why we don't see as many amazing runs when in the Argentina team...because he is the center attacking piece. He's not exactly a Maradona.

I would consider this formation, where Messi would be free to roam and Pastore can move forward more. Or, I would move Higuain out and move Tevez/Aguero up front and have Messi on the right wing like he used to play for Barca and put Pastore in the middle. But they need some sort of height for heading crosses, and Di Maria can cross the ball well.

Higuain
Di Maria Messi Aguero/Tevez
Gago Pastore
Scrub Mascherano Campagnaro Zabaleta

Cambiasso, Zanetti, Samuel are old now for the 2014 WC...

[sonic21]

what about a 4-2-3-1

--------Messi
Aguero Pastore Di Maria

and 2 defensive midfields.

[lefty]

What would be an ideal Argentina team for Messi to win the WC? No idiot Barcelona answers please

Messi as a striker and Maradonna= GOD as the playmaker

[Brazil]

Say what? If WC trophy is a measurement of greatness why is Platini being discussed?

you missed the point. I said Platini because I'm a fan not because Platini is a good argument.

The point was that the WC is what every kids are dreaming for, so saying that being successful in a WC is not a decisive argument to consider the greatness of a player is dumb imho because the WC is the most important compe ion.

[Brazil]

Well of course, in theory, winning the WC would probably bring the most pleasure of all trophies to anyone. Why? It's once every 4 years, and it's all about national pride. It's only natural. But think about it this way, the great players usually get 3 to 4 WCs to play in if they're lucky...players like Messi who started playing at a high level at a young age, and players that stay healthy. If you're injured for one of those years, you may only play in 2 world cups. And that's asking a lot to win it all in one of those years.

On the other hand, imagine a player has literally all of the technical skills as Pele or Maradona, but plays for Russia. You can't penalize him for not getting it done on the international level, while at the same time glorify Pele for winning with the best teams in the world.




I've just always hated the "championships/rings argument" for any sport. For most people, Phil Jackson is a strictly better coach than Pop even though he coached Jordan and Pippen in a weak NBA, and then won some more with 2 top 10 players of all time in Kobe and Shaq. Any coach with Shaq and Kobe would have won those rings, you simply couldn't stop Shaq in his prime and oh yeah, that young athletic version of Kobe was pretty damn good too.

Pop has been getting it done year after year; the Spurs have always been contenders for more than a decade. Year after year he makes some changes, Manu and Tim are TOSB versions of themselves, and they're still a top 2 team in the west, and could even finish 1st. I don't think you can say that one is definitely better than the other (Pop vs. Phil). Most people will look at their accolades and see that Phil has 11, Pop 4...well next question, Phil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pop. But we should be smart enough to consider all factors, the full context, and give a better analysis.

I understand your logic but Messi is not playing for Russia or Australia he is playing for a great NT winner of 2 WC with a prestigious pedigree and always in the list of the contenders to win a WC.

I was rooting for Argentina during the last WC, I've always been a fan of Argentina and IMO the team that played in South Africa was not a team full of scrubs, they were some damn good players starting with Messi. Messi should have dominated this WC like he is dominating the champion's league. He didn't do that.

Did he play well ? yes. Is he responsible for the team not winning a WC ? no. Did he make a case during this WC to be considered better than Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano, Ronaldo... ? no. Does he have the time and the talent to do that ? yes. Up to him to show the world he is the best during a WC.

and no I'm not saying he needs to win one. As mentioned by Lefty, Cruyff never won a WC but he definitely closed the discussion about his greatness during this compe ion.

[DAF86]

If Argentina winning a WC depended only on Messi, we would have won a WC a long time ago by now.

[DAF86]

What would be an ideal Argentina team for Messi to win the WC? No idiot Barcelona answers please

Romero

Zabaleta Mascherano/Fernandez Coloccini Rojo

Braña Alvarez/Mascherano

Aguero Messi Di Maria

Higuain

If you want more defense and air game, play Fernandez in the back and Masch in the middle. If you want more playmaking ability go with Masch in the back and Ricky Alvarez in the middle.

No matter what team, Argentina should always play with a high defensive line and pressuring in the other team's half like all big teams do but with Alejandro "the chicken" Sabella we'll never see that.

[Brazil]

If Argentina winning a WC depended only on Messi, we would have won a WC a long time ago by now.

what?

[DAF86]

That Messi deserves a WC and the Argentine football (from the political leaders, to the coaches and to a lesser extent his teammates or lack of quality ones in key areas) don't give him a fair chance to succeed on that compe on. Blaming Messi for Argentina not winning the WC is like blaming condoms for people getting AIDS.

[lefty]

[Jodelo]

If Argentina winning a WC depended only on Messi, we would have won a WC a long time ago by now.

That Messi deserves a WC and the Argentine football (from the political leaders, to the coaches and to a lesser extent his teammates or lack of quality ones in key areas) don't give him a fair chance to succeed on that compe on. Blaming Messi for Argentina not winning the WC is like blaming condoms for people getting AIDS.

[ALVAREZ6]

I understand your logic but Messi is not playing for Russia or Australia he is playing for a great NT winner of 2 WC with a prestigious pedigree and always in the list of the contenders to win a WC.

I was rooting for Argentina during the last WC, I've always been a fan of Argentina and IMO the team that played in South Africa was not a team full of scrubs, they were some damn good players starting with Messi. Messi should have dominated this WC like he is dominating the champion's league. He didn't do that.

Did he play well ? yes. Is he responsible for the team not winning a WC ? no. Did he make a case during this WC to be considered better than Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano, Ronaldo... ? no. Does he have the time and the talent to do that ? yes. Up to him to show the world he is the best during a WC.

and no I'm not saying he needs to win one. As mentioned by Lefty, Cruyff never won a WC but he definitely closed the discussion about his greatness during this compe ion.

That's fair. The defense and coaching blows though. CROFL Maradona as coach who left out Zanetti, Cambiasso from the team (I know it's not a huge difference, but he brought some questionable players over them and it's stupid to omit Zanetti when the defenders were not good).

Football is such a compe ive sport, especially at a WC, that you need everything to win it all now. Spain had that...no weaknesses on the field, and a good coach. You simply can't win a WC anymore without big weaknesses and without a good coach.