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  1. #76
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    It's about the politicization of the federal bureaucracy. (And you should really learn the meaning of the term "illegal prosecution" before you start throwing it around.)

    The Bush Administration got in trouble for firing 7 US Attorneys--not because it was illegal, but because many people thought he was politicizing the Justice Department. (The Justice Department is part of the Executive Branch.)

    Except for purely political reasons, I can see no good reason why Obama insists on effectively moving the Census Bureau into the White House.

    RG's point about the Commerce Department being in the Executive Branch is very similar to the arguments made in defense of the Bush Administration's firings of the US Attorneys. Technically, it's legal. But that's not the problem.

    For the record, I think this move is crummy and an obvious attempt at DeLay-style politicking. (I'm sure you'll explain to me the nobility and wisdom of it all.) But, regardless, it's Obama's prerogative. Just like firing the 7 US Attorneys was Bush's prerogative. Both appear to be heavy-handed and crude examples of partisan bull .
    LOL the move. The move amounts to a statement which pretty much changes nothing other than try to calm down the Black Congressional Caucus.

    "Hey guys, I'm going to work closely with the department thats under me to do this job. Have a Nice day"

    "ZOMG YOU'RE YOU'RE MAKING THE CENSUS POLITICAL! TOM DELAY!! TOM DELAY!!!"

  2. #77
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    That's great, because it isn't being moved into the White House.
    But, but, but, I read it on Fox News... it must be true!


  3. #78
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Please provide a source statement from the White House that supports this.
    Exactly he's ing re ed. I'm not even sure he's seem the statement he's so up in arms about.

    Timeline

    1. Gregg gets nominated
    2. Black Congresspeople say "OMG HE'S NOT GOING TO COUNT BLACKS"
    3. Obama says "I'M BLACK AND I'M GOING TO WORK CLOSELY WITH THEM"
    4. GOP Congerss "ZOMG POLITICS!"
    5. Gregg "I NEED TO SAVE FACE!! CENSUS!!!"
    6. Doobs "ZOMG DON'T COUNT PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!! DELAY!!!"

  4. #79
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    That's great, because it isn't being moved into the White House.
    You know what I mean. I was speaking figuratively about it being in the White House. I know it isn't physically or formally moving into the White House. Obama seems to want more control over the Census Bureau, and I think it's for purely political reasons.

    What are you afraid of here?
    I mentioned Tom DeLay for a reason. I personally don't know why Obama wants control over the Census. If there is a legitimate reason, I would like to know. Seriously, why does he care about the Census Bureau reporting directly to him (and Rahm Emanuel)? Could it be that 2010 is just around the corner? Perhaps it has something to do with redistricting. That's my concern.

    Chicago politics.

  5. #80
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    The Bush Administration got in trouble for firing 7 US Attorneys--not because it was illegal, but because many people thought he was politicizing the Justice Department. (The Justice Department is part of the Executive Branch.)
    For something that wasn't illegal, the administration officials involved are awfully tight-lipped about it.

    It's kind of hard to tell if it was or wasn't illegal because there was such stone-walling on the part of the Bush administration about it.

  6. #81
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    You know what I mean. I was speaking figuratively about it being in the White House. I know it isn't physically or formally moving into the White House. Obama seems to want more control over the Census Bureau, and I think it's for purely political reasons.



    I mentioned Tom DeLay for a reason. I personally don't know why Obama wants control over the Census. If there is a legitimate reason, I would like to know. Seriously, why does he care about the Census Bureau reporting directly to him (and Rahm Emanuel)? Could it be that 2010 is just around the corner? Perhaps it has something to do with redistricting. That's my concern.

    Chicago politics.
    So you don't know why, but Chicago politics!

  7. #82
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    For something that wasn't illegal, the administration officials involved are awfully tight-lipped about it.

    It's kind of hard to tell if it was or wasn't illegal because there was such stone-walling on the part of the Bush administration about it.
    Just stop right there. Do you know why no one claimed it was illegal? BECAUSE IT WASN'T.

    It was still ty, however.

  8. #83
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    You know what I mean. I was speaking figuratively about it being in the White House. I know it isn't physically or formally moving into the White House.
    Please provide a source statement from the White House that supports this statement.

  9. #84
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    So you don't know why, but Chicago politics!
    I think I just explained my concern to you. Big kids can read.

  10. #85
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    Please provide a source statement from the White House that supports this statement.
    What the are you talking about?

  11. #86
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I mentioned Tom DeLay for a reason. I personally don't know why Obama wants control over the Census. If there is a legitimate reason, I would like to know. Seriously, why does he care about the Census Bureau reporting directly to him (and Rahm Emanuel)? Could it be that 2010 is just around the corner? Perhaps it has something to do with redistricting. That's my concern.

    Chicago politics.
    So you don't know whats going on? Well thats a surprise Doobs. I mean really. Pretty hard to get more control over a department you fully control.

  12. #87
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Just stop right there. Do you know why no one claimed it was illegal? BECAUSE IT WASN'T.

    It was still ty, however.

    Report Sees Illegal Hiring Practices at Justice Dept.

    WASHINGTON -- Justice Department officials over the last six years illegally used “political or ideological” factors to hire new lawyers into an elite recruitment program, tapping law school graduates with conservative credentials over those with liberal-sounding resumes, a new report found Tuesday.

    Times Topics: U.S. AttorneysThe blistering report, prepared by the Justice Department’s inspector general, is the first in what will be a series of investigations growing out of last year’s scandal over the firings of nine United States attorneys. It appeared to confirm for the first time in an official examination many of the allegations from critics who charged that the Justice Department had become overly politicized during the Bush administration.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/wa...d-justice.html

    In 2002, many deselections were required because of budget
    constraints. The data showed that candidates with Democratic Party
    and liberal affiliations apparent on their applications were deselected at
    a significantly higher rate than candidates with Republican Party,
    conservative, or neutral affiliations.
    This pattern continued to exist
    when we compared a ...
    The do entary evidence and witness interviews also support
    the conclusion that two members of the 2006 Screening Committee,
    Esther Slater McDonald and Michael Elston, took political or ideological
    affiliations into account in deselecting candidates in violation of
    Department policy and federal law. For example, the evidence showed
    that McDonald wrote disparaging statements about candidates’ liberal
    and Democratic Party affiliations on the applications she reviewed and
    that she voted to deselect candidates on that basis.
    We also found that Elston, the head of the 2006 Committee,
    failed to take appropriate action when he learned that McDonald was
    routinely deselecting candidates on the basis of what she perceived to
    be the candidates’ liberal affiliations. The evidence also showed that
    Elston himself deselected some candidates – and allowed the
    deselection of others – based on impermissible considerations. Despite
    his initial denial in our interview that he did not consider such
    inappropriate factors, he later admitted in the interview that he may
    have deselected candidates in a few instances due to their affiliation
    with certain causes. In addition, Elston was unable to give a credible
    reason as to why specific highly qualified candidates with liberal or
    Democratic credentials were deselected.
    Full text available:
    http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/s0806/final.pdf

    -------------------

    Just in case you missed it the first time. This is above and beyond the attorney firings.

  13. #88
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I think I just explained my concern to you. Big kids can read.
    I personally don't know why Obama wants control over the Census.
    Chicago politics!

  14. #89
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    The White House announced its decision last week, as minority groups raised concerns about Gregg’s past opposition to Census funding. Obama administration staffers said the decision was based in part on historical precedence during the Clinton administration.
    “As they have in the past, White House senior management will work closely with the Census Director given the number of decisions that will need to reach the President’s desk," White House spokesman Ben LaBolt said in a written statement.
    "This administration has not proposed removing the Census from the Department of Commerce and the same Congressional committees that had oversight during the previous administration will retain that authority.”

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fed...l?hpid=topnews

  15. #90
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    What the are you talking about?
    Except for purely political reasons, I can see no good reason why Obama insists on effectively moving the Census Bureau into the White House.
    Please provide a source statement from the White House that supports this.

    Your claim, your burden of proof. I want to see what statement/plan from the Obama administration you base this statement on.

  16. #91
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    lol

  17. #92
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    Please provide a source statement from the White House that supports this.

    Your claim, your burden of proof. I want to see what statement/plan from the Obama administration you base this statement on.
    I don't know what you want from me. All I said was that Obama wants more control over Census, and that I was speaking figuratively about the Census moving to the White House.

    So I have the temerity to ask questions about Obama's decisions, and you want to jump all over me? How about actually discussing why he wants to do what he's doing?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123423384887066377.html

    Now, please explain to me a good reason for Obama's plan to have the Census Bureau report directly to him. I really just want to know, but my su ion, my concern, is that he's playing politics with the census.

    That's all.

  18. #93
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    Read it again. My concern is a DeLay-style gerrymander. What is your opinion? Why do you think Obama is doing this? I would really like to know.

  19. #94
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I don't know what you want from me. All I said was that Obama wants more control over Census, and that I was speaking figuratively about the Census moving to the White House.

    So I have the temerity to ask questions about Obama's decisions, and you want to jump all over me? How about actually discussing why he wants to do what he's doing?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123423384887066377.html

    Now, please explain to me a good reason for Obama's plan to have the Census Bureau report directly to him. I really just want to know, but my su ion, my concern, is that he's playing politics with the census.

    That's all.
    FAIL.

    THE WALL STREET JOURNAL OP-ED PAGE, LAST TIME I CHECKED, WAS NOT PART OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

    I read the article, and nowhere in that article did they attribute any quote to the white house either. I would accept a quote in that article if they actually had bothered to tell me what they based THEIR statements and analysis on.

    Except for purely political reasons, I can see no good reason why Obama insists on effectively moving the Census Bureau into the White House.
    Please provide a source statement from the White House that supports this.

    Your claim, your burden of proof. I want to see what statement/plan from the Obama administration you base this statement on.

  20. #95
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Read it again. My concern is a DeLay-style gerrymander.
    Since districts are drawn by state legislatures, that won't be a problem.
    What is your opinion? Why do you think Obama is doing this? I would really like to know.
    Seems like there were already a lot of new ideas in the pipeline for the census regarding techniques and technology, and I'm sure the Obama administration has even more. Is it a bad thing for a president to want to know what's going on with the census?

  21. #96
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    But statisticians at the Commerce Department didn't think it would mean having the director of next year's Census report directly to the White House rather than to the Commerce secretary, as is customary.
    I didn't see any quote marks or attribution to what was actually said.

    Keep digging cool-aid boy, because unless you can show that your statement is based on what the White House actually said or proposed, and not on what Fox News told you to believe, you don't get to claim this.

  22. #97
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Is it a bad thing for a president to want to know what's going on with the census?
    It is if that president is a Democrat, apparently.

  23. #98
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    FAIL.

    THE WALL STREET JOURNAL OP-ED PAGE, LAST TIME I CHECKED, WAS NOT PART OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

    I read the article, and nowhere in that article did they attribute any quote to the white house either. I would accept a quote in that article if they actually had bothered to tell me what they based THEIR statements and analysis on.



    Please provide a source statement from the White House that supports this.

    Your claim, your burden of proof. I want to see what statement/plan from the Obama administration you base this statement on.
    I still don't know what you want from me. What claim do I need to prove?

  24. #99
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Food stamps = wealth transfer now? Thats funny.

    By definition, Manny.

    And this isn't a "Woe is the Rich Guy" argument - not talking class warfare, here.

    Take from one person, give to another = transfer.

    As opposed to production.

  25. #100
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    By definition, Manny.

    And this isn't a "Woe is the Rich Guy" argument - not talking class warfare, here.

    Take from one person, give to another = transfer.

    As opposed to production.
    The US lost 600,000 jobs last month.

    How are you instantly going replace those jobs?

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