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If Shaq hit his free throws at a 70% margin ... this guy wouldve been the all time scoring leader by now.
Who died and made you official...anything. Dude, hold your horses for a minute. Oh, I forgot, you are so full of yourself that you can't.
If Shaq hit his free throws at a 70% margin ... this guy wouldve been the all time scoring leader by now.
No doubt!
Not even close.
Kareem: 38,387 NBA points
Shaq: 26,286 NBA points
Shaq's free throws/free throw attempts: 5,441/10,376 (52.4%)
If Shaq hit 70% of his free throws: 7,263 (1,822 more points)
Shaq if he hit 70% of his free throws: 28,108 NBA points
Kareem: 38,387 NBA points
edit: Kareem played a looooooooong ing time.
p.s. That would put Shaq at fifth all time.
Your point is a good one. I'd be curious how those points would affect Shaq's per game scoring averages.
I was also thinking that if Shaq had been a better FT shooter, he wouldn't have been such a liability for his teams late in close games and might have been more available in those moments to rack up more FTA. But the fact that he's always been a poor FT shooter has encouraged teams to foul him intentionally and send him to the line more often, which artificially inflates his FTA number. I think you could argue that if Shaq had been a better FT shooter, he actually would have gotten fewer attempts and the number of points he would have left at the line would actually be smaller than what you calculate here.
In any event, I love Shaq and have appreciated him for many years now. I do think there's a compe ion, a healthy one, between Shaq and Duncan (at least in Shaq's mind) and that Shaq would prefer to leave the game being thought of as the dominant big man of the post-Jordan era. He knows that Duncan is the sole threat to his being perceived that way and I think the desire to get a 5th ring "before Duncan" is all about that quest. But I also think that Shaq knows that he and Duncan are already historically elite players and that the comparison is among the greatest of the great, which isn't a bad place to be. That Shaq includes Duncan in this at all is testament to just how much respect he has for Tim, and that's a great thing to see.
Outside of the fact that both Duncan and Shaq are big men, I believe the comparisons of their greatness end there. Duncan is widely thought of as a PF. In fact, already considered the best PF of all-time.
Shaq, on the other hand, being a true center, will be hailed as one of the top 3 centers of all-time and the most dominant player of his era.
I believe history will look at them as different animals entirely. If not, Shaq will always get the edge in public sentiment because of his mouth, his personality and of course, HE will keep reminding everyone of his greatness.
Meanwhile, Duncan will be content to allow his game, his accomplishments and his les to speak for themselves. I do agree the compe ion is only in Shaq's cartoon mind. Duncan couldn't care less.
Shaq will forever be stuck on 4
Cousy won 6 NBA les, one MVP, and was first-team All-NBA ten times.
The only other players to do that are Jordan and Kareem.
Curious to see who you feel are the two centers ahead of Shaq and who you place him ahead of.
I wouldn't consider Shaq a top 3 center of all time. I would put Wilt, Russell, Kareem, and Hakeem ahead of him. But, I'm curious what your list is to have Shaq a top 3 center of all time.
I'd put Wilt, Russell and Kareem ahead of him. No way I'd put Hakeem ahead of him, even if he retired today. Shaq could play for several more years so he could easily receive consideration in the top three at some point.
Hakeem dominated both ends of the court and won championships without a superstar teammate.
Shaq never consistently dominated the defensive end and never won a le without having a superstar perimeter player as a teammate.
Still, even if you argue that, it doesn't put him in the top 3. And, no matter how long Shaq plays, he won't surpass Wilt, Russell, or Kareem.
You should have said "won championship" unless you think Clyde Drexler wasn't a superstar. And in '94, all he had was Vernon Maxwell, Robert Horry, Sam Cassel and Mario Elie. Hakeem was a great player, but Shaq's been way more dominant for a longer period of time IMO.
Now that I think about it more, you're probably right. If Shaq plays as long as Kareem, he's not likely to approach the scoring le just because he doesn't have a move that guarantees him ten or twelve points every game. I can't shake the feeling that he could get into the discussion if he takes the last few years of his career seriously.
My bad. And I agree with you. I should've said top 5 center of all-time. However, I did hear on ESPN that Shaq rated himself the 3rd best center in NBA History - behind Russell and Kareem. A complete diss to Hakeem and Wilt.
What kills me is Duncan would have 5 and possibly 6 already if Poppzit hadn't been such stubborn dumbass in two series (Dallas in 2006, LA in 2008).
Those "if" scenarios guarantee only two more Finals appearances. Nothing more.
Good catch. Apparently, I wasn't even thinking when I typed that post quickly. But yeah, Hakeem won "a" championship without a superstar teammate.
There's definitely an argument that Shaq had a better career than Hakeem. But, I think there's one for Hakeem as well. It's all subjective opinion. And, while I would disagree with someone who felt Shaq was the better center, I wouldn't blast them for it.
It's cool. Just was curious how you'd rank if you did feel that way.
It's interesting, because in the Rockets broadcast of the game tonight, Drexler and whoever does PbP, while talking about Duncan said that you have to mention him in the group with the all time greats. They mentioned Jordan, Russell, Kareem, and Shaq, but not Hakeem. If Clyde won't even pick Hakeem over Shaq, then I'm not sure who should.
And I probably shouldn't blast someone for picking Hakeem, but I have made clear why I think he's overrated in the past, and there's an admittedly personal slant to it.
Interesting, but I think I'd have to hear the audio to make an assessment like that. Otherwise, I would assume Shaq is better than Wilt and Magic and Bird as well. If those are all the guys they talked about, sounds more like the greatest individual "winners" among greatest players since all those players have at least 4 championship rings.
Again, would have to hear the audio and maybe even get into the heads of each of the broadcasters to know exactly what they were talking about.
They mentioned multiple championships and MVP awards. I only made note of it because they mentioned Shaq and not Hakeem right on the heels of our having this discussion. I probably wouldn't have mentioned it if it had supported your position.
Lol, fair enough.
Jam, what movie is that av from? It's driving me nuts. I think it's that movie about the black kid named Leroy who acted like Bruce Lee. Wasn't Vanity in that?
Oh wait. The Shogun of Harlem. What the was the movie called?
"The Last Dragon" (1985)
Yes, Bruce Leeroy and Sho 'nuff.
And, yes Vanity was the girl in it.
Does it kill you even more knowing that if Kobe wasn't a jackass, Shaq might have a few more as well?
LOL. 80s movies ruled.
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