San Antonio On NFL's Radar

[Extra Stout]

My belief that San Antonio will eventually get an NFL team may seem quixotic to you and others like you but that does not detract from the fact that San Antonio is NFL material. Why that's so tough to fathom for people like you I'll never understand.

See, there's the crux of your neurosis. You have this insatiable need for people to validate the idea that San Antonio could support an NFL team. It's that venerable old San Antonio Inferiority Complex. It's also a rather adolescent set of priorities -- why is being "NFL material" the ne plus ultra of urban achievement? Does Buffalo suck any less because it has the Bills? Pro sports teams are just expensive toys.

[fyatuk]

Wow, I'm surprised San Antonio would think they had a chance at a team in the next four (?) years, but it's smart to have it there just in case. That gives Jerry Jones the first actual concrete reason to possibly block a San Antonio team, but it's not a very big reason.

Well, considering it was Hardberger overseeing the negotiations and it was back before he had given up on getting an NFL team during his tenure, it's not all that surprising. I'm curious the exact wording since SA might get a UFL team during the term of the lease (not that a startup league is worth kicking the Cowboys out of training camp anyway, just curious if it is possible or was restricted to NFL team).

He'd lose some SA fans that travel to Dallas for games, but more likely than not those would just be absorbed by other Dallas area people. It wouldn't affect his bottom line really, since the vast majority of the funds he gets from SA are from NFL shared coffers.

Mostly I think it'd be just a pride issue. He wouldn't want to lose what he considers one of his markets.

It's irrelevant anyway. A team in San Antonio won't make fiscal sense for the NFL unless an alternative league makes headway, or SA just gives up watching the NFL. There's no benefit towards the shared income (won't increase TV revenues since SA already provides better ratings than many home markets and SA sets a pretty good pace in merchandise sales), so expansion is out, and relocation seems unlikely since shared revenue might drop if any other team moves here due to the loss of interest in the original market.

[fyatuk]

My belief that San Antonio will eventually get an NFL team may seem quixotic to you and others like you but that does not detract from the fact that San Antonio is NFL material. Why that's so tough to fathom for people like you I'll never understand.

Many economic studies agree with you, although show SA being borderline in being able to support an NFL team.

Problem is, what's the incentive for the NFL? SA is good for the threat of relocation, but it's pointless to actually have a team in SA (from the NFL's perspective). If SA gets a team, it'll be because something went horribly wrong somewhere else (a possibility, actually).

[Obstructed_View]

It's irrelevant anyway. A team in San Antonio won't make fiscal sense for the NFL unless an alternative league makes headway, or SA just gives up watching the NFL. There's no benefit towards the shared income (won't increase TV revenues since SA already provides better ratings than many home markets and SA sets a pretty good pace in merchandise sales), so expansion is out, and relocation seems unlikely since shared revenue might drop if any other team moves here due to the loss of interest in the original market.

The small market TV size might actually help San Antonio to get a team in this regard. You'd also figure that the TV market would stay strong so long as there aren't a lot of blackouts.

As for merchandise, I certainly think there'd be a bump, but the question then raises its head as to whether there's a dip when the team loses 12 games a year for the first five years. If you can't rely on ticket sales to stay strong, then you probably can count on merchandise revenue to drop as well.

[jrtexas55]

http://www.thesportjournal.org/artic...location-sites

I would include Austin in the mix for football since most games are played on weekends. The above analysis excludes Austin from SA?

Interesting reading enjoy.

FYI...
http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/189012/results

[Tek_XX]

By the time San Antonio is considered for a team, Jerry Jones will be out of the picture.

[Evan]

Lets see…..Buffalo may be on the chopping block if this Canada experiment doesn't work but they will give it at least 2 years.

Raiders want to move but they for sure go to LA if they do.

Rams would likely stay put

Saints will stay put

Jacksonville IMO…if it will ever happen to SA that’s who they would get if it ever happens which I still don’t thin it will.

[G-Nob]

San Antonio is the leverage city.

*see Marlins and host of others

[Biernutz]

To get a pro football team in San Antonio-----tear the dome down and start over or spend big $$$ for a remodel? How are we going to pay for it? The motel -Hotel tax is committed for years. Sales tax? how high can we go under state law. Raise taxes on homeowners. Where is the big money coming from? Don't expect the team owners or the NFL to throw in money.

All this talk of SAT getting a team is a moot point as NFL has it's sights on the L.A. area. That's where the next team will go.

[bresilhac]

See, there's the crux of your neurosis. You have this insatiable need for people to validate the idea that San Antonio could support an NFL team. It's that venerable old San Antonio Inferiority Complex. It's also a rather adolescent set of priorities -- why is being "NFL material" the ne plus ultra of urban achievement? Does Buffalo suck any less because it has the Bills? Pro sports teams are just expensive toys.

If you're so blind as to not be able to see the value of having an NFL team in your community than it would most likely be a huge waste of my time to try to explain to you why NFL teams are so valuable to their respective cities. And if NFL teams weren't such a tremendous boon to their respective cities and so incredibly popular than why is the league so successful in the markets that have them?

If NFL teams were so unimportant and useless around the country the league would fold eventually according to your thinking. Imagine Dallas without the cowboys or New York without big blue. It's stupid and ridiculous to consider. They both have wonderful cultural and arts attractions as well as great park systems. But would they be anymore attractive places to live if they did not have have NFL teams?

[fyatuk]

To get a pro football team in San Antonio-----tear the dome down and start over or spend big $$$ for a remodel? How are we going to pay for it? The motel -Hotel tax is committed for years. Sales tax? how high can we go under state law. Raise taxes on homeowners. Where is the big money coming from? Don't expect the team owners or the NFL to throw in money.

All this talk of SAT getting a team is a moot point as NFL has it's sights on the L.A. area. That's where the next team will go.

They could increase the rate of the visitor tax beyond what it currently is (county) or the city could impose it's own, so it's not entirely accurante to say that's committed. The tax that currently exists is committed, but if it wasn't committed, it wouldn't exist, so that's not really saying anything.

The maximum sales tax rate is 8.25% (of which the first 6.25% is state tax). SA's rate currently appears to be 8.125% (I honestly don't pay much attention and always assume to legal maximum when I'm buying crap), so that leaves a 0.125% possible sales tax hike (I believe that's what paid the original $186 mil for the Alamodome).

I believe there are restrictions preventing use of property tax money on sports teams, but I may not be right no that.

The NFL would throw in money. They throw in some money for any stadium construction. It just most likely wouldn't be all that significant ($20 mil or whatever as a grant and up to $300 million loan to the team). Of course, the G3 fund is basically toasted from it's contributions to Giants/Jets, Cowboys, Colts, Chiefs, etc, that have built or renovated stadiums in recent years. Just saying, with the NFL there's at least token funding.

[Extra Stout]

If you're so blind as to not be able to see the value of having an NFL team in your community than it would most likely be a huge waste of my time to try to explain to you why NFL teams are so valuable to their respective cities.

This is the part where bresilhac foams at the mouth again and pretends there is some real economic benefit to having an NFL team other than, "OOH OOH OOH I REALLY WANT ONE SO BAD ARRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!" He then will go on to claim that because he REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY WANTS an NFL team so bad that he just lost control of his bowels because he was straining too hard REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY WANTING an NFL team, that therefore the NFL is an indispensable quality of life issue and inseparable part of the iden y of major cities, even though at least half their citizens couldn't care less about football, and 90% of those who do will never get to attend a game in person because only businesses and the super-rich can afford tickets.

bresilhac knows that being vigilant against anyone who DARES suggest there could EVER be a higher priority than getting an NFL team, for example, building a decent airport, improving the schools, revitalizing depressed areas including the one around the existing pro sports facility, is critical to getting a team. Because everyone knows that the mere existence of a pro football team magically fixes all that stuff! Look at New Orleans as proof!

Let's face it, the most important quality of life issue in America is being able to make small talk with the stranger next to you about the local NFL team. Making small talk about the local NBA team, the NFL team in a nearby city, or a college team, simply will not do.

Roger Goodell could be reading this very thread, and if bresilhac doesn't keep riding his horse, Goodell will conclude, "Well, maybe San Antonio really doesn't want it bad enough yet." So, keep fighting, brave warrior!

[bresilhac]

This is the part where bresilhac foams at the mouth again and pretends there is some real economic benefit to having an NFL team other than, "OOH OOH OOH I REALLY WANT ONE SO BAD ARRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!" He then will go on to claim that because he REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY WANTS an NFL team so bad that he just lost control of his bowels because he was straining too hard REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY WANTING an NFL team, that therefore the NFL is an indispensable quality of life issue and inseparable part of the iden y of major cities, even though at least half their citizens couldn't care less about football, and 90% of those who do will never get to attend a game in person because only businesses and the super-rich can afford tickets.

bresilhac knows that being vigilant against anyone who DARES suggest there could EVER be a higher priority than getting an NFL team, for example, building a decent airport, improving the schools, revitalizing depressed areas including the one around the existing pro sports facility, is critical to getting a team. Because everyone knows that the mere existence of a pro football team magically fixes all that stuff! Look at New Orleans as proof!

Let's face it, the most important quality of life issue in America is being able to make small talk with the stranger next to you about the local NFL team. Making small talk about the local NBA team, the NFL team in a nearby city, or a college team, simply will not do.

Roger Goodell could be reading this very thread, and if bresilhac doesn't keep riding his horse, Goodell will conclude, "Well, maybe San Antonio really doesn't want it bad enough yet." So, keep fighting, brave warrior!

Yeah ok. That's quite the amusing diatribe. You should feel better now after all the histrionics. And you call me neurotic? Look, we just disagree on this subject greatly. I'll leave it at that.

[Buddy Holly]

An NFL team really doesn't bring anything to a city in terms of great direct economic growth (unless you're hosting a SB) or development however, it does bring in the way of exposure and civic pride.

If SA were absent of any professional team, never had one, and was today a 2.1 million metro asking for a NBA team and was told having an NBA team would do nothing for the city, you knowing what you do in reality, know that's a crock of .

The Spurs never revitalized the east side, they've never made anyone outside themselves any real money but the fact of the matter is, the Spurs unite this city like nothing else and they have helped showcase this city to international crowds.

Are we a better city because of them? In some ways, no. But in many other ways, Yes.

[Clandestino]

An NFL team really doesn't bring anything to a city in terms of great direct economic growth (unless you're hosting a SB) or development however, it does bring in the way of exposure and civic pride.

If SA were absent of any professional team, never had one, and was today a 2.1 million metro asking for a NBA team and was told having an NBA team would do nothing for the city, you knowing what you do in reality, know that's a crock of .

The Spurs never revitalized the east side, they've never made anyone outside themselves any real money but the fact of the matter is, the Spurs unite this city like nothing else and they have helped showcase this city to international crowds.

Are we a better city because of them? In some ways, no. But in many other ways, Yes.

Yeah, being on tv during all the spurs championships didn't do for SA.

[Buddy Holly]

Did you skim through my post and just adsorb the words or phases you didn't like?

Reread it and tell me I where I said the Spurs don't bring major exposure to the city? Oh that's right, I did.

[zubee]

They throw in some money for any stadium construction. It just most likely wouldn't be all that significant ($20 mil or whatever as a grant and up to $300 million loan to the team). Of course, the G3 fund is basically toasted from it's contributions to Giants/Jets, Cowboys, Colts, Chiefs, etc.

[GuerillaBlack]

Yeah, being on tv during all the spurs championships didn't do for SA.

Nice of you to not even read what he said.

[Extra Stout]

An NFL team really doesn't bring anything to a city in terms of great direct economic growth (unless you're hosting a SB) or development however, it does bring in the way of exposure and civic pride.

If SA were absent of any professional team, never had one, and was today a 2.1 million metro asking for a NBA team and was told having an NBA team would do nothing for the city, you knowing what you do in reality, know that's a crock of .

The Spurs never revitalized the east side, they've never made anyone outside themselves any real money but the fact of the matter is, the Spurs unite this city like nothing else and they have helped showcase this city to international crowds.

Are we a better city because of them? In some ways, no. But in many other ways, Yes.

This is a pretty decent opinion. San Antonio is wild about the Spurs and the Spurs provide a symbol of unity for the diaspora everywhere. But part of that is because they have been so successful. Part of that is because they are the only pro team in town. Going from zero teams to one has a much larger impact than going from one team to two.

The civic value of the team, to the extent there is one, is that if you see somebody wearing a Spurs hat, you probably can start talking to them about the team, and you've got an instant amigo. There's value in that, I agree.

But the NFL gives you the least bang for your buck. You pay more for a stadium than in any other league, you only get eight regular season home games, and only the upper class and the priority customers of multinational companies ever get to attend games. It's the least accessible of the major leagues.

My experience with the Texans taught me that having the NFL locally isn't all it's cracked up to be. What most Houstonians got for their $350 million in tax money is a pretty nice stadium they only get to see on the inside during the Rodeo, and a joke of a team that simply keeps the local CBS affiliate from being able to show any entertaining AFC games at noon. It's a racket for the owner -- those businesses paid thousands upon thousands of dollars for "licenses" just to buy tickets, and they have to keep buying every year or they lose the money they sunk into the licenses. But a lot of those seats just stay empty because watching the Texans play is a waste of a Sunday afternoon.

In my opinion, the Texans add quan atively zero to the quality of life in Houston. If anything, they subtract from it. In seven years, in a football-mad city in a football-mad state, they can't even hold a candle to the Astros in popularity in a year when the Astros were an also-ran. You start shooting the bull with the good ol' boys about the Astros, and they'll probably end up buying you a beer. Big 12 football? Same thing. The Texans? That'll turn a lively crowd into something like a morgue.

When you add together the stadium, the ticket guarantees, and the infrastructure improvements, you're talking a bare minimum of $500 million, and probably something closer to $800 million of public money to get a team, with nothing economically tangible to show for it, and relatively little intangible. There are countless better ways to use that kind of money that have a much greater impact on the quality of life of ordinary San Antonians.

[GuerillaBlack]

Don't know about that. The Texans have added quality of life for me. I like having a home NFL team to root for. Texans games are also entertaining, even if they lose. They were compe ive in 2004, and again in 2007, and once again this year. It took time. This team is going to win a couple of games in a row. No one expected them to become a Super Bowl winning franchise the first couple of years in. It's time for more wins now, and that's happening (even this year with our 1-4 record, where we should be 3-2 and at the very least 2-3).

And we got much more with that stadium. Much more. Yes, we get Texans home games and the Rodeo, but we also got a Super Bowl, and are bidding for more. The NCAA Final Four is coming in two years as well, plus some other events down the line at Reliant.

And Houston doesn't have Big 12 football.

I really don't see how having the Texans have subtracted from the quality of life in Houston.

[jrtexas55]

http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/...17579&brthrs=1

[jrtexas55]

http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/...17579&brthrs=1

[bresilhac]

That's a terrific article. I'm glad to see the Governor is on the same page as the NFL commissioner as far as seeing San Antonio as NFL material. Now let's see if Governor Perry can make that enthusiasm tangible by actually helping San Antonio land a team. The Governor being friends with Dean Spanos certainly doesn't hurt.

Ok, now it's time for the usual nay-saying losers to come on here and contradict the obvious with a litany of negativity by saying San Antonio is: too small, too poor, has too many Dallas fans, not important enough, blah, blah, blah.

[GuerillaBlack]

That's a terrific article. I'm glad to see the Governor is on the same page as the NFL commissioner as far as seeing San Antonio as NFL material. Now let's see if Governor Perry can make that enthusiasm tangible by actually helping San Antonio land a team. The Governor being friends with Dean Spanos certainly doesn't hurt.

Ok, now it's time for the usual nay-saying losers to come on here and contradict the obvious with a litany of negativity by saying San Antonio is: too small, too poor, has too many Dallas fans, not important enough, blah, blah, blah.

*sigh*

It's not happening.