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Did I see a post where you said you were going to vote for Obama?
Or are you even registered to vote? Let me guess your a plumber too.
If Joe was a plant he would have been black.
disclaimer** does not work for conservative supreme court appointees
Did I see a post where you said you were going to vote for Obama?
Or are you even registered to vote? Let me guess your a plumber too.
It's the sheer volume of his gaffes that have made them no longer newsworthy.
Why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.
And the fact that even when he makes a gaffe, it's still easy to understand the point that he was trying to make.
Biden at a blind orphanage: "Hey kids! How do I look?"
now thats funny.
What Republicans are trying to show with this little stunt is the spectre of an regular guy being ripped apart by the media and other liberal activists by daring to question Barack Obama. The tax issue is a red herring.
yeah, agree. i don't get it. i thought he was a fine actor.
Thanks, there are quite a few people chipping in on this topic with brains.
Being a licensed plumber doesn't mean you're a good plumber, my son-in-law works for Ben Franlkin Plumbing outside of Charlotte, N.C., he's a uva plumber, will make about $100,000 this year (works his butt off), and although he used to work for as a pipefitter/plumber apprentice in Toledo (my hometown), and he's unlicensed.
The point is/was the additional taxes Obama wants to levy on those making over 250 thousand;
At 36% they got you for $90,000 in Federal Tax
At 39% (Obama's rate, they get you for an additional $7,500, and for what purpose, to spread around to those who don't earn as much as you, including a large population of lard butts.
So, they now have Joe for $97,500 in Federal Tax;
Take away and additional 8% in State and City Tax and the tax-man gets another $20,000;
That's $117,000 in taxes so far.
Take another 7.5% in SS and they've got another $18,750;
They now have taken $135,750 out of your original $250,000
Your present net is $114,250
Subtract medical, property taxes, etc, and Joe doesn't have a whole lot left of the original $250,000.
That's criminal! Is it any wonder Joe's pissed off?
Heck, I'm pissed off for the Joe's in the Country!
(you mathematicians correct me if I went wrong with the figures)
Obama's definitely got a lock on the gimme-more-handouts voter.
Best post of the entire thread!
I don't think your figures are correct. You say that under Obama's plan people making $250,000 would pay an additional $7,500. The Washington Post says that according to the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Ins ute and the Brookings Ins ution the difference would be around $12.
I think what people don't understand is that under Obama's plan, you only pay the higher rate on any income that is over the $250,000 threshold. So if you make $255,000, you pay an additional 3% on the $5,000 that is over the $250,000 threshold and not on the entire $255,000.
So, really, Joe's hypothetical is not the best one to use. At $250,000, the tax increase he would see would be minuscule.
Obama explained this to Joe the Plumber himself, but Joe didn't seem like he wanted to listen to the answer. He was too intent on making his next point.
To me that was the most annoying part of the whole "Joe The Plumber" thing.
Joe claimed that Obama tap danced around the issue like Sammy Davis Jr, when in fact Obama clearly answered his HYPOTHETICAL question, if anyone was tap dancing it was Joe "The Plumber".
Having said that, and going by what Obama said, those figures above aren't correct.
The ammount over 250K would be taxed at 39 rather than 36 percent, I can't say how much the ammount under 250K would be taxed, but it's not 39 percent.
Okay, I understand that what you’re saying about being taxed an additional 3% on income above $250,000, but Obama’s numbers while talking to Joe were 36% at 250 thousand and 39% for income over 250 thousand. If his numbers are right, and I hope he’d know what his own tax plan says, then his claim of a reduction in taxes doesn’t jive with the current tax rates;
Currently - Income from $164,000 - $357,000 is taxed at the rate of 33%
Currently - Income at $357,000 + is taxed at a 35% rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States
Both of the current rates on equal amounts of income are well below Obama’s numbers he gave to Joe of 36% at $250,000 and 39% over that amount.
Either way, Joe and friends are getting’ hit, and hit hard, with Obama’s tax plan. That’s a huge tax increase over the current rates and much worse than the scenario I presented in my previous post.
They’re paying more than their fair share, and overtaxing through the implementation of higher rates in order to “spread the wealth around” is tantamount to legislating taxpayer robbery.
How about spending less by downsizing Government (I don’t know if it’s true, but a recent radio talk show stated that there are currently 14,000,000 people working for the Government - I assume they are including State and City Government employees in with the Federal Employees), by freezing most Agencies funding at their current levels (that affects me), using line-item veto on the massive amounts of taxpayer subsidized earmarks/pork, and keeping the current tax rates right where they are?
Midnight here, I'm through for the night.
Just one more thing, if the current tax rates run from 10% to 35%, why did Obama tell Joe that a flat tax rate of 40% would be needed to meen expenditures?
One would logically conclude that he plans on raising spending to a level that would call for a 40% flat tax rate. That equates to raising both taxes and spending to unprecendented levels.
He said, "If your revenue is above 250, then from 250 down, your taxes are going to stay the same. Now it is true that for, say, 250 up... from 250 to 300 or so (interrupted/cross talk) So for that additional amount, you'd go from 36 to 39 percent, which is what it was under Bill Clinton."but Obama’s numbers while talking to Joe were 36% at 250 thousand and 39% for income over 250 thousand. If his numbers are right, and I hope he’d know what his own tax plan says, then his claim of a reduction in taxes doesn’t jive with the current tax rates;
Currently - Income from $164,000 - $357,000 is taxed at the rate of 33%
Currently - Income at $357,000 + is taxed at a 35% rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States
Both of the current rates on equal amounts of income are well below Obama’s numbers he gave to Joe of 36% at $250,000 and 39% over that amount.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george..._b_135125.html
Again, I don't think you are correct on this issue.
Assuming his income is $280,000, he pays an additional $257 under Obama's plan versus current plan/McCain plan. I wouldn't call that getting hit hard and a huge tax increase compared to current rates. Also, I don't see how it's a worse scenario than you initially had in your post. Initially, you said he would be paying an additional $7,500, when it turned out to be much, much less. How is paying almost nothing worse than paying $7,500?
Last edited by Mr. Peabody; 10-18-2008 at 02:49 AM.
Nobody pays a 36% Fed effective tax rate....your post is missing personal and business deductions, child credit exceptions and state income tax deductions..retirement contribution credits and exceptions....I'd be surprised if after all these deductions and tax credits, Joe, a real plumber, winds up paying hardly any Federal tax....
Joe the Plumber owes Mesa AZ $700 in traffic tickets, and his driver's license is suspended...
Wasn't Joe the asshat who invited all the scrutiny into his life in the first place?
Yahoo"The media's worried about whether I've paid my taxes, they're worried about any number of silly things that have nothing to do with America," Wurzelbacher told the former Republican presidential hopeful on his show, "Huckabee."
Wurzelbacher said he felt terrible after reading some of the criticism of himself posted online.
"I felt about that small," he said. "I mean I really did."
-snip-
Wurzelbacher became famous after he met Obama and said the Democrat's tax proposal could keep him from buying the two-man plumbing company where he works. However, reports of Wurzelbacher's annual earnings suggest he would receive a tax cut rather than an increase under Obama's plan.
-snip-
Wurzelbacher said he agreed to appear on the show after he received phone calls from friends serving in the military who voiced their support.
....this ass-clown wanted his 15 minutes of fame and he got it and now he's whining because the truth about him is coming out...
Can the McCain camp do anything right?
He's a ing Republican, they're supposed to be good at this .....
Here's Krugman with Real Ohio Plumbers' stats:
October 20, 2008
The Real Plumbers of Ohio
By Paul Krugman
Forty years ago, Richard Nixon made a remarkable marketing discovery. By exploiting America’s divisions — divisions over Vietnam, divisions over cultural change and, above all, racial divisions — he was able to reinvent the Republican brand. The party of plutocrats was repackaged as the party of the “silent majority,” the regular guys — white guys, it went without saying — who didn’t like the social changes taking place.
It was a winning formula. And the great thing was that the new packaging didn’t require any change in the product’s actual contents — in fact, the G.O.P. was able to keep winning elections even as its actual policies became more pro-plutocrat, and less favorable to working Americans, than ever.
John McCain’s strategy, in this final stretch, is based on the belief that the old formula still has life in it.
Thus we have Sarah Palin expressing her joy at visiting the “pro-America” parts of the country — yep, we’re all traitors here in central New Jersey. Meanwhile we’ve got Mr. McCain making Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, a k a Joe the Plumber — who had confronted Barack Obama on the campaign trail, alleging that the Democratic candidate would raise his taxes — the centerpiece of his attack on Mr. Obama’s economic proposals.
And when it turned out that the right’s new icon had a few issues, like not being licensed and comparing Mr. Obama to Sammy Davis Jr., conservatives played victim: see how much those snooty elitists hate the common man?
But what’s really happening to the plumbers of Ohio, and to working Americans in general?
First of all, they aren’t making a lot of money. You may recall that in one of the early Democratic debates Charles Gibson of ABC suggested that $200,000 a year was a middle-class income. Tell that to Ohio plumbers: according to the May 2007 occupational earnings report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual income of “plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters” in Ohio was $47,930.
Second, their real incomes have stagnated or fallen, even in supposedly good years. The Bush administration assured us that the economy was booming in 2007 — but the average Ohio plumber’s income in that 2007 report was only 15.5 percent higher than in the 2000 report, not enough to keep up with the 17.7 percent rise in consumer prices in the Midwest. As Ohio plumbers went, so went the nation: median household income, adjusted for inflation, was lower in 2007 than it had been in 2000.
Third, Ohio plumbers have been having growing trouble getting health insurance, especially if, like many craftsmen, they work for small firms. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, in 2007 only 45 percent of companies with fewer than 10 employees offered health benefits, down from 57 percent in 2000.
And bear in mind that all these data pertain to 2007 — which was as good as it got in recent years. Now that the “Bush boom,” such as it was, is over, we can see that it achieved a dismal distinction: for the first time on record, an economic expansion failed to raise most Americans’ incomes above their previous peak.
Since then, of course, things have gone rapidly downhill, as millions of working Americans have lost their jobs and their homes. And all indicators suggest that things will get much worse in the months and years ahead.
So what does all this say about the candidates? Who’s really standing up for Ohio’s plumbers?
Mr. McCain claims that Mr. Obama’s policies would lead to economic disaster. But President Bush’s policies have already led to disaster — and whatever he may say, Mr. McCain proposes continuing Mr. Bush’s policies in all essential respects, and he shares Mr. Bush’s anti-government, anti-regulation philosophy.
What about the claim, based on Joe the Plumber’s complaint, that ordinary working Americans would face higher taxes under Mr. Obama? Well, Mr. Obama proposes raising rates on only the top two income tax brackets — and the second-highest bracket for a head of household starts at an income, after deductions, of $182,400 a year.
Maybe there are plumbers out there who earn that much, or who would end up suffering from Mr. Obama’s proposed modest increases in taxes on dividends and capital gains — America is a big country, and there’s probably a high-income plumber with a huge stock market portfolio out there somewhere. But the typical plumber would pay lower, not higher, taxes under an Obama administration, and would have a much better chance of getting health insurance.
I don’t want to suggest that everyone would be better off under the Obama tax plan. Joe the plumber would almost certainly be better off, but Richie the hedge fund manager would take a serious hit.
But that’s the point. Whatever today’s G.O.P. is, it isn’t the party of working Americans.
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But the stupid bubba's still vote "God, guns,and gays", and get rewarded with decreasing financial rewards while the Repugs enrich the corps and capitalists.
I agree. They hold down good workers to make as little as the lowest common denominator worker, and support those who want to create a "Nanny State" rather than being true Americans.
Wow...
So many misconceprions out here.
1) Obama went to Joe's residence. He was not a plant.
2) I am unaware that Joe ever said he was a plumber. Just that he worked there and was considering buyuing the company.
3) Why is this about Joe? The question is not invalidated in any way, shape, or form. Obama wants to "Spread the Wealth!"
You guys are just a bumch of Ozobies.
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