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Your belief that abortion is murder is based on your moral/religious/philosophical beliefs, none of which have any place in law.
Is killing a burglar out of self defense murder as well?
Neo, are you against all abortions no matter what, or do you approve of abortions in certain cases like rape, incest, medical health of the mother, etc..?
Your belief that abortion is murder is based on your moral/religious/philosophical beliefs, none of which have any place in law.
Is killing a burglar out of self defense murder as well?
Murder cannot be a result of armed conflict, as in Iraq. If a soldier shoots down an unarmed Iraqi, then that's murder, in simplest terms. Would you agree or no?
While it is ty that the mother told the father that there was a baby ... at the same time you have to wonder about where the father was throughout the entire pregnancy.
Depends also on how late he applies for custody - in the case of a newborn adoption, the child will grow up thinking whoever raised him or her are the real parents unless told otherwise - getting into a custody battle where the child doesn't know what's going or who the parents really are, being told different things ... the father in that case needs to know when to back away for the sake of the child. I'm also personally against open adoptions as well ... not smart to do that, although nowadays, most of them are - which sucks for the adoptive parents.
No kidding - and I've had friends that have had problems with their birth control pills as well. They use a generic brand, and according to the FDA, in the US generic brands have to be 86% as effective as the name brand to be put on the market - and birth control pills are not something you want to be 86% effective.NOOOOOOOO a study was done and found Planned Parenthood condoms were the absolute worst on the market! make the trip to CVS or something
When I went there, they gave me name brand and I never had any problems. *shrug* Anyway, my point is, there are ways of prevention. I haven't done any research, but it just occured to me... I wonder what the statistics are for those that had accidental pregnancies due to the contraceptives failing compared to those that were just plain lazy...
I'm sure a lot of women don't know that you're supposed to take the pill around the same time every day. Doctors never tell you that. I guess they assume one reads the too small print insert.
It interesting you mention this. I'm reluctant to bring this up, but it's all too relevant. My sister in law was kidnapped and raped 2002. Her husband and two others were murdered during the same incident. The whole ordeal was inconceivably heinous. At the hospital, after SAPD literally saved her life from the captor, who was about to kill her before they intercepted him with my sis in law, they took a pregnancy test and it was negative. They gave her a morning after pill just to be sure. Now, had she been pregnant, and they gave her the pill and she agreed to it, that, by definition is murder. Cir stances don't change facts. I can't change that, no one can. The unborn don't get to choose their parents. A person that was conceived most unfortunately by a rapist, is basically screwed if the mother wants an abortion. So in the situation of conception through rape, I believe that no matter how excruciatingly difficult carrying the baby of a rapist might be, it's still the right choice. Aborting is still the wrong choice. But OF COURSE, I understand the mother's point of view. And to that end, I would be for a stipulation saying that the unborn conceived by rapists could be terminated. Not that it wouldn't still be murder, it would, but maybe there should be a stipulation that removes legal constraints in that extreme situation. But then of course you would have women crying rape left and right and that would surely make a gigantic mess of everything. False accusations to couch an abortion...I shudder at the thought.
So in a nuts , no matter what the cir stances, terminating a life is, and will always be terminating a life. You can't sugar coat, dress up, or pretend abortion is something different from what it really is. It's denying a conceived person a right to life. I am for preserving that right as far as humanly possible. If a mother has the courage to take a baby to term with the father a rapist, if the mother decides to carry through with an abortion which would put her life in danger, I have boundless respect for those mothers. If they decided to abort in those situations, I do understand, but mourn the loss of the buggers who never got a shot.
I wonder how many unborn babies have met Mr Forcep, Mr. Saline solution, or Mr Vac while we've been having this discussion?
I doubt most people actually read the inserts on the prescription medicine they are taking - although, with cycline and tricycline birth control pills, such as Ortho Tricycline, etc, it is suggested that you take them the same time everyday as a routine more than anything, because the insert also tells you that if you miss a day you just take the next pill whenever you remember and if you miss two days take the two missed doses and continue as usual - so the time table is flexible if you just remember to take one every day, it's not that hard. Progesterone birth control pills on the other hand you really do have to take everyday at the same time because the hormones aren't quite as potent - it's just as effective, but you can't slack on it at all.
But for women who can't remember to take the pill, there's also the new patch thing - and if insurance companies would ing step up and cover more things like depo-provera shots it would also help since those are either once a month or once every three months depending on what kind you're using.
Insurance companies are notorious for bad coverage of birth control and other preventative medicine though - and what really ticks me off are the companies that will cover Viagra and not birth control. They'll pay for the guy to get it up but they won't pay if he knocks her up.
On that note, another case for the right to an abortion is the fact that most insurance companies will not cover prenatal care.
My friend's sister was on a different recently - she got pregnant while on it and was taking it as directed - when she went to her OB/GYN the doctor said that in the past couple weeks she had had three or four other cases of this happening while on that same medication. Maybe it was a bad batch ... I don't know. But there is a lot of laziness when it comes to contraceptives failing - and miseducation.
Look, if we're going to get on the whole sexual responsiblity soapbox here....
THEN I WANT SOME OF YOU ALL COMPLAINING ABOUT EDUCATION BEING OFFERED IN SCHOOLS RIGHT NOW
Enough of the abstinence only bull and lets actually get the facts out to the kids. I don't like abortion one bit. NOT ONE DAMN BIT. But it's not murder.
I think you could do a lot to curb pregnancies by full educating people on proper biology and give up the stupid farse of supposed innocence.
Only abstinence is 100% fool proof.
Thats a great line Joe. Let's teach them that ALONG with other forms of sex education.
Rumor has that the problems with OTHER forms of sex education is not one is 100% safe against STD's or pregnancy. Shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which is the best choice.
Jekka--I was on the patch for 2 years for that very reason--I'm a terrible pill taker, but i switched back to the pill for reason I won't make public..
My insurance only knocked a few bucks off the patch, it was still around $35. The pill is only $20 for me. Don't know why it's different.
I never understood why most insurance companies won't pay for birth control, yet they will pay for a birth. When my kids were born 12 and 9 years ago, the bill was between $3-5K. Of course, my kids were born in San Francisco so I'm sure my hospital rates were higher.
not really S y. It's really expensive here too.
And yeah, we shoudl definetly put all of our eggs in one basket Name. Because teaching children about abstinence means none of them will ever have sex.
There's a reason the Baby Boom occurred right after one of the most socially (and sexually) conservative times in our history.
I read a couple of months ago in the Washington Times that the percentage of births to unwed, teenage mothers has gone down in the last few years... among those that were taught abstinence. The percentage rate remained the same for those who received regular prevention-based sex ed classes. I'll try to find that link tomorrow.
It's all about convenience.
Next time something does not go your way, recognize that somebody with a little more pull imposed their will upon you solely because it was convenient - whether it involve abortion, tuition, or a 1% pay-raise.
It's ALWAYS about someone else's convenience.
Last edited by Guru of Nothing; 02-26-2005 at 02:05 AM.
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