just curious about people's belief systems....

[balli]

As far as aliens go, I don't think sentient beings or humanoid life forms exist that are advanced enough to have thought and emotional systems such as we do or the ability to believe and conceive of higher powers,

Why not? I don't see, given the size of the Universe, how there couldn't be. What makes our lowly solar system so special in comparison to the billions of others?

[2Blonde]

I find it funny that Angel Luv bases almost all her posts on Bible quotes. Out of all the things available to substantiate Jesus and Christianity she chooses to quote the one item that was manipulated the most.

Someone post this in the God thread for me.

Given the context of your post, I am compelled to inquire: What is it that assures you of the unbiased authenticity of your sources?

I talk to the Author of my Faith on a daily basis. Your history books are heresay, in the sense that you have never spoken to the writers of it.

God was not the Author of the Bible. Christians have manipulated the text over many centuries. Not to mention there is a complete lack of difinative authorship. That is historical fact and its even confirmed by Christian followers. Its widely accepted that Christians changed, deleted and manipulated tons of text to fit the mold.

You seem to think the bible was penned right out of Jesus' mouth.

Not all of my sources are purely authenticated. I never said they were. However a large portion of my argument stems from physical Calendars that pre-dated Jesus. So I have original physical evidence. Even Christians don't deny their existence....and of course I've cited text or books that are referencable in original form.

The faith of a child is revered in the Bible. Angel Luv's faith is, frankly, impressive; as is her willingness to express it despite extensive ridicule and scorn.

I never said it wasn't impressive. I just pointed out that she constantly references something thats of little value. The oldest known bible (if I remember correctly) is from around the 4th Century.

She's repeating what she's been told to repeat and thats the bible is "Gods word". Only god or Jesus didn't write the bible.

I was just browsing some blurbs on the oldest know bible. Inconsistancies never cease to amaze me.

The Codex - and other early manuscripts - do not mention the ascension of Jesus into heaven, and omit key references to the Resurrection, which the Archbishop of Canterbury has said is essential for Christian belief.

Other differences concern how Jesus behaved. In one passage of the Codex, Jesus is said to be “angry” as he healed a leper, whereas the modern text records him as healing with “compassion”.

Also missing is the story of the woman taken in adultery and about to be stoned - until Jesus rebuked the Pharisees (a Jewish sect), inviting anyone without sin to cast the first stone.

Nor are there words of forgiveness from the cross. Jesus does not say “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.


......and you guys think you're reading the words of Jesus verbatim.

At mass this Sunday, our priest discussed this exact subject. I thought his words on this subject were very interesting. He said... "The bible is a historical collection of stories, anthologies and moments. It's purpose is to illustrate and illuminate our faith. Faith is much greater than a list of facts. Faith begins where knowledge and facts end..."

I loved this description and I also think it describes Angel Luv's faith to a tee. She is a walking/talking human reminder of how a true deep faith can guide you in all areas of your life. I think I have a pretty strong faith but I know it pales in comparison to the level of faith that she demonstrates on a daily basis. You have to admire that!

PS... I also love the way B2B riles things up. It keeps it lively around here.

[E20]

Why not? I don't see, given the size of the Universe, how there couldn't be. What makes our lowly solar system so special in comparison to the billions of others?

By random chance and evolution I do not think it is possible for another planet to have such a highly advanced array of species at hand. Also, by being a biology major and studying major concepts of how complex organisms at a high level can be I just don't think that by chance there could be organisms as advanced as us. I have also had discussions with my science Professors regarding this topic and they also think that it is highly improbable that through Darwinian and Macro-evolution that there can arise a species on the same tier as us.

That's the way I see or think it. If by some means we are contacted by an advanced being from outer space then I am wrong, but in my opinion simple/microscopic organisms or even some simple quadrupeds exist.

[ashbeeigh]

if they are not doomed because of ignorance, then they were better off not knowing, weren't they......

if it were me, I'd beat the crap out of the alien that came back to my planet and "enlightened" me.

We're talking about hypothetical aliens here.

If you really thing I'm going to get my panties in a wad about this then you found the wrong person to discuss this with.

[baseline bum]

By random chance and evolution I do not think it is possible for another planet to have such a highly advanced array of species at hand. Also, by being a biology major and studying major concepts of how complex organisms at a high level can be I just don't think that by chance there could be organisms as advanced as us. I have also had discussions with my science Professors regarding this topic and they also think that it is highly improbable that through Darwinian and Macro-evolution that there can arise a species on the same tier as us.

To think this planet that has only been here 4.5 billion years is the only place complex life can form is equivalent to completely dismissing evolution as an explanation for our existence. There is water all over, there are heavy metals, there are countless sun-like stars, and so on in the known universe. To think it could only happen here would immediately point to intelligent design.

[2Blonde]

By random chance and evolution I do not think it is possible for another planet to have such a highly advanced array of species at hand. Also, by being a biology major and studying major concepts of how complex organisms at a high level can be I just don't think that by chance there could be organisms as advanced as us. I have also had discussions with my science Professors regarding this topic and they also think that it is highly improbable that through Darwinian and Macro-evolution that there can arise a species on the same tier as us.

That's the way I see or think it. If by some means we are contacted by an advanced being from outer space then I am wrong, but in my opinion simple/microscopic organisms or even some simple quadrupeds exist.

To think this planet that has only been here 4.5 billion years is the only place complex life can form is equivalent to completely dismissing evolution as an explanation for our existence. There is water all over, there are heavy metals, there are countless sun-like stars, and so on in the known universe. To think it could only happen here would immediately point to intelligent design.

I agree with most of what you are saying. By faith in Jesus Christ,I am a christian yet by education, I am a scientist. I believe that there is a very real possibility that there is or has been life on other planets in our very own solar system. Whether that life rises to the complexity of being considered an "alien", in my opinion, is something that will either be proven or disproved within the next 20 years. Science is a discipline that is incredibly exciting in the times we live know. The available and potential technology is allowing us to make scientific advances that couldn't have been imagined 25 years ago.

[Rogue]

I am an alien.

[marini martini]

I believe I'll have another drink.

[baseline bum]

Not picking a fight here, but where do you think all of this came from, or do you not worry about it, and figure we'll figure it out when we figure it out?

I do not know where we came from, and I believe presupposing the answer defeats efforts to search for it. I don't even know if the question is answerable. If the big bang theory is correct, it is the beginning of the universe only because we can't know of anything that be conceived of as before it.

I'm extremely distrustful of religion because it often tells people to suppress their skepticism and to believe things that would be dismissed easily as nonsense from any other source. Not that everything has to agree with intuition to be true: clearly, most people wouldn't believe you see something going at one speed, chase it, and still see it going the same speed when the object you chase thinks it hasn't sped up. It sounds like nonsense; I chase a car going 100 when I'm going 95, and he escapes away from me pretty slowly; he doesn't zoom away unless he can go into a higher gear and really jam on the accelerator. However, there is irrefutable evidence this is true for light. Michelson showed on our planet orbiting the sun at 30 km/second we always get light from the sun going at a constant speed. If we measure the speed at different times of the year, then we are clearly at different parts of the orbit and thus moving in different directions (and thus with a different velocity relative to the sun), and yet the light always goes speed c when we measure it here. That's extremely compelling evidence pointing directly to the measured speed of light being independent of the movement of the observer.

For me to believe in something as non-intuitive as the supernatural, there has to be that same level of compelling evidence that points in only one direction. If I can believe in something that leaves no evidence or trace of its existence, then I might as well believe anything.

[phyzik]

I agree with most of what you are saying. By faith in Jesus Christ,I am a christian yet by education, I am a scientist. I believe that their is a very real possibility that there is or has been life on other planets in our very own solar system. Whether that life rises to the complexity of being considered an "alien", in my opinion, is something that will either be proven or disproved within the next 20 years. Science is a discipline that is incredibly exciting in the times we live know. The available and potential technology is allowing us to make scientific advances that couldn't have been imagined 25 years ago.

Just curious what your thoughts are on the Drake equation. Even if you put in the most miniscule numbers in that equation there is still a mathmatical probability that there is other forms of intelligent life out there. Im not saying its the correct equation, but still, its the best we got.

In my opinion to think that we are the only advanced lifeform, especially the most advanced, is just plain arrogance on the level of people who think humans are the "chosen" of whatever higher power may or may not be out there. We might as well go back to thinking the Earth is the center of the universe.

So I dont come across as a thread-jacker:

God, in the sense of current religious beliefs, doesnt exist.

Magic is a fraud and those that believe in it are simple minded. Yes, Im talking about the David Blaines and the supposed wanna-be Merlins who think they can cast spells. That includes Voodoo.

Ghost, well ghost hunters is an interesting show, I'd like to believe but I doubt it at this time.

Aliens, as far as visiting the planet, its hard to dispute hundreds of thousands of eye witnesses but I doubt the government has some type of MIB that communicate with them. As far as life on other planets just as intelligent and advanced as we are, I have no doubt there is at least 1 other alien race such as ours.

reincarnation is a sham to help people cope with death.

government conspiracies are just that, conspiracies. sure they hide and its been proven even with the Right of information act, but I doubt they orcastrated 9/11 or some other crap. As far as roswell, I am borderline on that and I've studied it quite a bit. My brother is military and was stationed at Fort Hood where the supposed bodies where taken and he says there is a few buildings where super high level access is required.... who knows?

Karma is a and I've witnessed it first hand on many occasions but most of those have been me ministering the after effect. Weather its a force or not, I cannot say. The only thing I know is if you wrong me or others, at some point payback will occur, weather its in direct relation to the "wronging" thats still up for debate.

[baseline bum]

Developed alien life forms making contact with us is a whole other bag of worms, because of the limiting speed of light in our universe. To make physical contact, they would have to be capable of 1 of the following:

1) Breed and sustain life through many generations on their transport device to Earth
2) Break the limitation of the speed of light for travel
3) live for insanely long time periods necessary to make the trip over distances on the scale of light-years

... along with having a way to generate the massive amount of kinetic energy needed to first propel the transport device at speeds of even modest fractions of the speed of light.

In cases 1) and 3), there would have to either be a way to compress their energy source (i.e., food) into small quan ies (in both length,width, and mass) or a way to convert energy from passing stars into something to help them sustain life. Case 2 would require them to perhaps fold the universe on itself, which begs the question of where they got that kind of gravitational force without creating black holes that would have annihilated them. Wormholes don't see all that fruitful a way to break the speed of light barrier.

None of these options seem at all likely. The only other option is that we have an extremely limited knowledge of physics and that we're missing something major in the big picture. There is seemingly a good chance of that being true, but accepting that makes anything derived from it pure speculation that could go anywhere.

[Blake]

Yes- to God and ghosts (if by ghosts you mean spirits and not Caspar)

I pretty much mean Casper, Ebeneezer Scrooge's ghosts, Ghostbuster ghoats and any other souls that are stuck here on Earth instead of in or heaven.

[Blake]

I loved this description and I also think it describes Angel Luv's faith to a tee. She is a walking/talking human reminder of how a true deep faith can guide you in all areas of your life. I think I have a pretty strong faith but I know it pales in comparison to the level of faith that she demonstrates on a daily basis. You have to admire that!

some call it a strong faith, others might call it a teenager's lack of willingness to answer a bunch of critical questions.

[Blake]

Developed alien life forms making contact with us is a whole other bag of worms, because of the limiting speed of light in our universe. To make physical contact, they would have to be capable of 1 of the following:

1) Breed and sustain life through many generations on their transport device to Earth
2) Break the limitation of the speed of light for travel
3) live for insanely long time periods necessary to make the trip over distances on the scale of light-years

... along with having a way to generate the massive amount of kinetic energy needed to first propel the transport device at speeds of even modest fractions of the speed of light.

In cases 1) and 3), there would have to either be a way to compress their energy source (i.e., food) into small quan ies (in both length,width, and mass) or a way to convert energy from passing stars into something to help them sustain life. Case 2 would require them to perhaps fold the universe on itself, which begs the question of where they got that kind of gravitational force without creating black holes that would have annihilated them. Wormholes don't see all that fruitful a way to break the speed of light barrier.

None of these options seem at all likely. The only other option is that we have an extremely limited knowledge of physics and that we're missing something major in the big picture. There is seemingly a good chance of that being true, but accepting that makes anything derived from it pure speculation that could go anywhere.

there's that....

and also based on what we know (which may be limited), the planets at which might sustain life are few and far between. I haven't checked lately, but I think we have maybe found one or two that might fall in the right zone that make it plausible....

and just because a planet can sustain life doesn't mean that it automatically will produce life.......much less multi-celled organisms, much less highly advanced creatures, much less intelligent creatures, much less creatures capable of finding other intelligent creatures in the universe, much less travelling to meet them...

.....even in this vast cosmos.

[Blake]

In my opinion to think that we are the only advanced lifeform, especially the most advanced, is just plain arrogance on the level of people who think humans are the "chosen" of whatever higher power may or may not be out there. We might as well go back to thinking the Earth is the center of the universe.

So I dont come across as a thread-jacker:

God, in the sense of current religious beliefs, doesnt exist.

Magic is a fraud and those that believe in it are simple minded. Yes, Im talking about the David Blaines and the supposed wanna-be Merlins who think they can cast spells. That includes Voodoo.

Ghost, well ghost hunters is an interesting show, I'd like to believe but I doubt it at this time.

Aliens, as far as visiting the planet, its hard to dispute hundreds of thousands of eye witnesses but I doubt the government has some type of MIB that communicate with them. As far as life on other planets just as intelligent and advanced as we are, I have no doubt there is at least 1 other alien race such as ours.

reincarnation is a sham to help people cope with death.

government conspiracies are just that, conspiracies. sure they hide and its been proven even with the Right of information act, but I doubt they orcastrated 9/11 or some other crap. As far as roswell, I am borderline on that and I've studied it quite a bit. My brother is military and was stationed at Fort Hood where the supposed bodies where taken and he says there is a few buildings where super high level access is required.... who knows?

Karma is a and I've witnessed it first hand on many occasions but most of those have been me ministering the after effect. Weather its a force or not, I cannot say. The only thing I know is if you wrong me or others, at some point payback will occur, weather its in direct relation to the "wronging" thats still up for debate.

On my own Blake Equation, I find it hard to believe that intelligent aliens can exist without some kind of intelligent design.

Whoops. I guess that was a bit arrogant on my part.

[Blake]

We're talking about hypothetical aliens here.

If you really thing I'm going to get my panties in a wad about this then you found the wrong person to discuss this with.

If you think I care how far up your crack your panties go, you are in the wrong thread to begin with.

[angel_luv]

My question would be at what point in her faith does it become enough a part of her that she can explain what she believes in her own words, as opposed to quoting words written by someone else. This thread is an inquiry as to what each person believes, and I would expect an answer more personal, whereby some people are willing to examine themselves and to express their personal beliefs in their own statements. In some ways simply quoting scripture is a cop-out because the person is "hiding" behind some statements that he or she believes can not be challenged. To express yourself in your own way and in your own words requires a willingness to put yourself out there and have your notions and ideas examined and possibly critiqued by others. Sorry, but I do not admire it as some have posted because I think it is lazy contemplation not even to attempt your own expression of faith.

Because you have always been nice to me, I am going to explain my reasoning to you.

When Jesus was in the desert and was tempted by Satan, Jesus responded to each of Satan's attacks/ accusations/ temptations with Scripture. ( Matthew 4)
I have chosen to follow Jesus' example in this.

[Rockhound]

I believe in reincarnation of the soul.

I don't care any about organized religion, but I know there is more to all this than just 80 years of existence.

Mankind still knows very little. I believe at the very least, religion/spirituality is used as a tool for the mind to dive deeper into things. It shapes ones conscious, strengthens your resolve, and can set up a solid set of values/morals that will help you grow in life.


Two sayings I live by which I have observed to be the real deal:
Life is about the journey, not the destination.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[Blake]

Because you have always been nice to me, I am going to explain my reasoning to you.

When Jesus was in the desert and was tempted by Satan, Jesus responded to each of Satan's attacks/ accusations/ temptations with Scripture. ( Matthew 4)
I have chosen to follow Jesus' example in this.

what does the Scripture say about pre-destination?

what does it say about the after life for primitive tribes in Australia?

don't worry, I'll answer for you

"I know that God is the Supreme Being in the Universe and he knows all of our hearts and he will take care of it and I don't need to worry about it

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding."

[Blake]

I believe in reincarnation of the soul.

I don't care any about organized religion, but I know there is more to all this than just 80 years of existence.

Mankind still knows very little. I believe at the very least, religion/spirituality is used as a tool for the mind to dive deeper into things. It shapes ones conscious, strengthens your resolve, and can set up a solid set of values/morals that will help you grow in life.


Two sayings I live by which I have observed to be the real deal:
Life is about the journey, not the destination.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

so you believe in God?

[balli]

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding."

Good f'ing post. Proverbs ing sucks. A guide to turning yourself into a zombie. On the other hand, the psalms, that's some good .

[Winehole23]

1. God(s) - yes, the flying spaghetti monster. All Hail the One True God. RAmen.

It's been the jaunty hipster fashion for quite some time, to take a joke religion instead of an honest creed.

All hail Bob!

[angel_luv]

what does the Scripture say about pre-destination?

what does it say about the after life for primitive tribes in Australia?

don't worry, I'll answer for you

"I know that God is the Supreme Being in the Universe and he knows all of our hearts and he will take care of it and I don't need to worry about it

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding."

I believe pre-destination means not that God excludes people from salvation by only picking some, but rather that He specifically created each human life for a divine purpose and eternal friendship with him.

It is similar to how parents hope their kids always remain close to them, not just as infants and kids but as adults also.

Acts 2:21- "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

As for the primitive tribes in Australia...


Matthew 12:14-18- " What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."

And
Romans 1:19-20- " Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

[Winehole23]

1. God(s) -Yes.
2. magic (not from God or copperfield) -I believe in dreckeffekt.
3. ghosts - agnostic
4. alien -agnostic
5. reincarnation - Resurrection, yes; reincarnation, no.
6. government conspiracies i.e. 9/11, Illuminati, etc-They're gonna get me!
7. karma - See Angel_Luv's response. It means exactly the same thing.

[Blake]

I believe pre-destination means not that God excludes people from salvation by only picking some, but rather that He specifically created each human life for a divine purpose and eternal friendship with him.

It is similar to how parents hope their kids always remain close to them, not just as infants and kids but as adults also.

No, it's not similiar.

Parents have no idea how their kids will turn out.

God in His infinite knowledge knows exactly how each person, including Satan would turn out.

Yet in His infinite love, He created them anyway, knowing that they were doomed to spend eternity in .

Acts 2:21- "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

As for the primitive tribes in Australia...


Matthew 12:14-18- " What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."

And
Romans 1:19-20- " Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

Not one mention of Jesus, here so I will go ahead and conclude that it is your belief that believing in Jesus is an unnecessary part of the salvation equation.

So in that case, who cares if He was the Son of God or just another good guy? It means nothing.